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Litany Unheard posted:MoO 2 let me put stellar converters on my planets and it was awesome. Disappointingly it didn't let you use planets to blow up other planets in the same system, which I feel was an oversight.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:14
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The space stations kind of already serve the make a planet shoot role. The problem is they suck at it later and there is no way to alleviate it. Like if you could refit a station in a way that turned off building ships and increased shoot ability and hp by a shitton that would allow you to have more defensible frontier worlds. Being able to edit their design would also be good
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Apr 28, 2017 18:29
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Planets should be able to just pump out defense stations like ships, which would go into a little orbital fleet above that protected the planet and space station. I can build 50 battleships and they sit in orbit above the planet, why can't I build 50 fortresses as well? It's just an immobile fleet that gives me a little more bang for the buck in combat power.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:33
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Baronjutter posted:Planets should be able to just pump out defense stations like ships, which would go into a little orbital fleet above that protected the planet and space station. I can build 50 battleships and they sit in orbit above the planet, why can't I build 50 fortresses as well? It's just an immobile fleet that gives me a little more bang for the buck in combat power. The combat station radius thing is handled very poorly and you should definitely be able to build them a lot closer together.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:35
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Nuclearmonkee posted:The combat station radius thing is handled very poorly and you should definitely be able to build them a lot closer together. There shouldn't even be a radius, or if there is it should be like 1/10th the size. Doesn't make any sense at all as it stands
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Apr 28, 2017 18:37
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Thyrork posted:
Can you mouseover the guy at 145%, I wanna see what bonuses got him that high.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:43
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Still, wrangling this kind of thing is fun!
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Baronjutter posted:Planets should be able to just pump out defense stations like ships, which would go into a little orbital fleet above that protected the planet and space station. I can build 50 battleships and they sit in orbit above the planet, why can't I build 50 fortresses as well? It's just an immobile fleet that gives me a little more bang for the buck in combat power. I'm not sure if I like that idea. It might turn into planets being enormous impossible to take powerhouses. Sort of like fighting a station with corvettes right at the start of the game, it isn't really possible.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:44
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Strudel Man posted:Huh. Just had the war in heaven kick off for the first time. I led the non-aligned worlds, and when the awakened empires declared war on me, all my vassals flipped to their side. :paradox: Yep, this absolutely crushed my first Hive Mind run. I had 5 vassals (was waiting to get the tech where I could gene mod them into hive mind pops before I integrated them) and they made up about 1/2 of my military power. Then the war on heaven happened and they all joined the opposite FE that I joined and I no longer had vassals. Then the 177k FE fleet just ran rampant in my empire and my little 80k fleet was powerless to stop them.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:47
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deathbagel posted:Then the war on heaven happened and they all joined the opposite FE that I joined and I no longer had vassals. Then the 177k FE fleet just ran rampant in my empire and my little 80k fleet was powerless to stop them. I found that I could win the War in Heaven by actively avoiding the opposite FE and just working on taking planets from all their vassals, but that strategy may have been patched out of existence.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:58
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Taear posted:I'm not sure if I like that idea. It might turn into planets being enormous impossible to take powerhouses. Right but I can do this right now, I can build 100 battleships and leave them in orbit. But I'd never do that because a mobile fleet is way more useful. But if stations says gave you 25% more bang for your buck you could build them just like an immobile fleet. You'd' need to find that right balance point with their cost though to make them not a terrible investment. If I have 10 planets and you have a 50k fleet it would be insane for me to try to build a 50k defense network above every planet. For that amount of minerals I could build a 500k fleet probably. But if I only need to fortify my border systems then it becomes a better proposition. Maybe I build 25k worth of defenses around 2 systems and try to keep all my others at about 5k to stop roving raiders and transport fleets. I still need a proper fleet to move to reinforce though. But why not just build a bigger doomstack then? Well stations are cheaper. For the price of a 2000 combat power battleship maybe I get a 3000 combat power fortress. But does that offset the severe penalty for being immobile? That's where balance tweaking and combat tweaking would come in obviously. The problem with starbases is that they start out super powerful then quickly become less than a speedbump. Make them nothing more than shipyards, if you want defenses build the defenses just like you would a fleet. Start the game with maybe 4 200 combat power defense platforms, if you want more defenses then build them but always be aware it's at the cost of your possible fleet. Basically unbundle starbases from planet defense. Maybe give each planet a small orbital cap based on their size/population of free defense support and going above that eats into fleet capacity. But don't have any restrictions on how many defense stations you can cram around a planet, if you can pay to build them and support them go nuts because that's how fleets work. Any argument against that can be applied to fleets as well. If we can make offensive doomstacks (which can also be used defensively) why is there anything wrong with defense doomstacks that are crippled with immobility?
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Apr 28, 2017 19:00
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Taear posted:I'm not sure if I like that idea. It might turn into planets being enormous impossible to take powerhouses. I am going to say it again but I really think the biggest change needs to be allowing the player to invade through hostile action instead of needing 100% air superiority. So sure planets might be powerhouses but they arent complete roadblocks, it just means taking them will have a cost (unlike now where it is common to completely avoid losses). Make planet defenses three to five times more powerful than ships of equivalent cost so they are worth building, but allow a determined enemy to break through and subvert them and win a victory despite heavy losses. Right now victories and losses are very binary, but this would allow strategic tradeoff considerations - using your fleet to tie up enemy defenses in a fight you cant win long enough to land ground troops and take over the planet itself. Strong defenses that arent impenetrable could allow for a game where you trade guaranteed military air power for actually accomplishing things that gain victory points. Might even be worth largely avoiding clashing doomstacks which gains not much and focusing on overcoming enemy defenses instead. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 19:11
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GlyphGryph posted:I am going to say it again but I really think the biggest change needs to be allowing the player to invade through hostile action instead of needing 100% air superiority. So sure planets might be powerhouses but they arent complete roadblocks, it just means taking them will have a cost (unlike now where it is common to completely avoid losses). Make planet defenses three to five times more powerful than ships of equivalent cost so they are worth building, but allow a determined enemy to break through and subvert them and win a victory despite heavy losses. I like it. Combine that with a massive increase to planetary conquest war score and it might chip away at the "every war is a total war for the player" problem - you may have wiped their fleet, but after taking one planet you know you won't be able to build up the armies to capture another before your enemy rebuilds. Likewise on defence, if you lose control of a planet you know it's hopeless to take it back in a reasonable amount of time.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:21
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Bholder posted:They are automatically purged. So since no purge happened and they seem to be doing just fine I guess it's a bug in my game? Maybe I'll just grab the second bio ascension perk and hope for the best.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:26
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In other games what are the main reasons that not every war is a total war? -Escalating costs of war. If being on the offense is expensive you want your wars as short as possible, if the costs ramp up over time this is even more deadly. Something like war exhaustion or higher upkeep on units outside your borders. -Diplomatic fallout. EU has aggressive expansion mechanics which work well. Maybe you CAN totally annex your neighbour, but by doing so you're going to piss off everyone around you to the point that they form an alliance and declare war on you very soon. -Biting off more than you can chew. Make absorbing conquests cost something or make your empire unstable. EU had coring costs which worked fairly well. -Deeper Defenses and logistics. Sure you grabbed some border system in a quick blitz but now that you've pushed the enemy back (combat has changed and fleets retreat to repair more easily) new front lines have emerged and it's harder to push deeper because the systems you took have had all their logistics support destroyed and they have no defenses so you need to use your fleets to defend them, tying them down from advancing deeper. Also your fleets are now much farther from your nearest logistics hub than the the enemy's defensive fleets, giving them a variety of advantages or simply making their upkeep a lot cheaper. Perhaps you could win in a long drawn out total war, but you're much more inclined to peace out now and take what you got easily and build up your defenses and logistics there for the next war.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:35
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I Am A Robot posted:So since no purge happened and they seem to be doing just fine I guess it's a bug in my game? Maybe I'll just grab the second bio ascension perk and hope for the best. What happens when you mouse over your conquerred hive pops? Are they not flagged as being exterminated? Purges can take a long time.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:36
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Yeah exactly a combat system that switched to primarily being Attack Fleets Vs Strong Planet Defense combats instead of primarily being doomstack fights is one that naturally makes the player much less able to push deep and maintain an ongoing war and more likely to push for something achievable that would let them strike, take a planet or two, and then end the war to rebuild their shattered fleets.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:49
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GlyphGryph posted:Yeah exactly a combat system that switched to primarily being Attack Fleets Vs Strong Planet Defense combats instead of primarily being doomstack fights is one that naturally makes the player much less able to push deep and maintain an ongoing war and more likely to push for something achievable that would let them strike, take a planet or two, and then end the war to rebuild their shattered fleets. On the other hand, fleet battles are awesome, but I can't really bring up the same enthusiasm for fights against static defenses. I'd rather have a system of cost escalation than one of whack-a-planet.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:56
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Well if you are fighting a defensive war thats not actually just a mutually offensive war you would probably want to make a big stands where you fleet reinforces and supports your defenses, or pursuing and engaging enemy fleets limping home. There could be actual back and forth. Theres no escalation as it stands, its mostly one and done then mop up. That sort of weariness based cost escalation system would just make mop up even more unpleasant. Also a combined arms planet invasion could be way more awesome than a simple fleet fight. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 19:59
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Wow, everyone hates you when you're a Hive Mind. Rude.
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Apr 28, 2017 20:01
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Doctor Reynolds posted:Wow, everyone hates you when you're a Hive Mind. Rude. Everyone likes me when I played as a hive mind...
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Apr 28, 2017 20:01
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Well they think you're a bit weird is more like it. -30. They'll really hate you when you eat pops  fortunately that actually all poofs like it never happened the second you finish assimilating whoever with generic engineering.Its okay, we only ate a little bit of them!
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Apr 28, 2017 20:26
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I'm thinking about triggering End of the Cycle to end my current game with a bang, and am curious about what happens with mega-structures. Are ring worlds and habitats immediately destroyed when the shroud monster comes through?
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Apr 28, 2017 20:33
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Ring Worlds get turned into ruined sections (see Cybrex home), Habitats get straight up removed from the map.
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Apr 28, 2017 20:42
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Sky Shadowing posted:Ring Worlds get turned into ruined sections (see Cybrex home), Habitats get straight up removed from the map.
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Apr 28, 2017 20:46
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I have still never encountered the event horizons chain or anything legit dangerous or even particularly interesting in the shroud 
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Apr 28, 2017 20:56
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GlyphGryph posted:I have still never encountered the event horizons chain or anything legit dangerous or even particularly interesting in the shroud
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Apr 28, 2017 20:57
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Nah they patched that out.
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Apr 28, 2017 21:00
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Mazz posted:Can you mouseover the guy at 145%, I wanna see what bonuses got him that high.  Me and another goon were loving around with some mods while using the Unfair boost to get to the point sooner. So dock %15 right away. Thats Not Fair! is great for being all "hey lets test this mod out" games that start fresh.
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Apr 28, 2017 21:35
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What's Science & Technology center, another mod?
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Apr 28, 2017 22:33
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Baronjutter posted:What happens when you mouse over your conquerred hive pops? Are they not flagged as being exterminated? Purges can take a long time. Just started playing again and they are indeed now flagged to be exterminated. However, I'm pretty sure it took loading the game for them to get flagged. Besides the fact I'm pretty sure I would have noticed last time I played, all of the pops have the same date for extermination which is about 4.5 years from now. That's despite their planets being conquered in two separate wars, many years apart. Oh yeah and now my energy output has tanked to -200 due to suddenly getting 0 output from all their worlds.
I Am A Robot fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 22:35
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Staltran posted:What's Science & Technology center, another mod? Yeah, this one.
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Apr 28, 2017 22:41
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IMO, making planets too strongly defended doesn't eliminate the doomstack problem, it just replaces a mobile doomstack with an immobile doomstack. The real problem, I'd say, is that a lot of aspects of Stellaris combat are very all-or-nothing. An example familiar to the early game is that either you can take that spaceport out, after which the planet is totally defenseless for twelve months, or you can't take the spaceport out and you pose no threat whatsoever to the planet. And once you're in orbit, the planetary fortifications phase is essentially just a near-mandatory timer, since the point at which the defense bonus starts to meaningfully drop is so low that you might as well just wait for the fortifications to be completely gone. Personally, the solution I'd really like to see is a greater proportion of fleet time spent in sublight travel compared to FTL, maybe a ship speed boost while in your own territory, and making minor stations a less attractive target. Why total war is so common in Stellaris is simple - you can do a lot more damage to your opponent than in other Paradox games, and it doesn't really cost you anything to drag out the war a bit. In addition to knocking out your enemy's fleet, you can wipe out their spaceports (forcing them to spend a good year and a half just rebuilding their ability to build ships), mining stations, research stations, and of course frontier stations. On top of that, blockading or occupying an enemy world totally cuts off that planet's output, causes a lot of happiness and unrest, and can destroy buildings or kill pops. It's a tremendous amount of economic damage, all in exchange for paying a bit more upkeep on your fleet. And of that just happens during the war itself, before you even get to declaring victory and enforcing wargoals.
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Apr 28, 2017 23:11
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Having 2 of my custom species show up in a game is kinda cool. Having one of them be an SA is even cooler.
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Apr 28, 2017 23:41
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Discussion > Games > Stellaris - Greetings, Space Dicks.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 23:46
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That's probably how most Goons would greet someone; both in person and online. If they ever spoke to anyone else, that is...
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Apr 28, 2017 23:56
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Main Paineframe posted:Why total war is so common in Stellaris is simple - you can do a lot more damage to your opponent than in other Paradox games, and it doesn't really cost you anything to drag out the war a bit. In addition to knocking out your enemy's fleet, you can wipe out their spaceports (forcing them to spend a good year and a half just rebuilding their ability to build ships), mining stations, research stations, and of course frontier stations. On top of that, blockading or occupying an enemy world totally cuts off that planet's output, causes a lot of happiness and unrest, and can destroy buildings or kill pops. It's a tremendous amount of economic damage, all in exchange for paying a bit more upkeep on your fleet. And of that just happens during the war itself, before you even get to declaring victory and enforcing wargoals. This hits the nail on the head, I think. Getting back up after losing a war requires way more resources and effort than in, say, EU4, and if you go total war you can cripple an empire in one good run. Destroying frontier outposts is especially powerful, since you're shutting down a large amount of resources by beating up one station made of paper, and you can shift a whole swathe of borders even if the war ends in a white peace. Personally, I'd make outposts indestructible except through that one wargoal that's completely pointless right now. Stations and spaceports should just be put into a "damaged" state where you can repair them for a lower cost than rebuilding, and without having to putter around with a construction ship. It's not a magic fix for everything, but it'd help. Guildencrantz fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 00:40
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Well, crap. Just found out that I'm not going to be able to (shroud spoilers) form a covenant with the End of the Cycle, because I've already formed a covenant with the Instrument of Desire, and apparently covenants are mutually exclusive.
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Apr 29, 2017 00:50
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Why do people get so mad when you eat them?? I mean it's not like you are just killing them out of spite they are being put to good use.
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Apr 29, 2017 01:07
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Is there a mod to notify when the Shroud becomes available again?
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Apr 29, 2017 01:12
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alcaras posted:Is there a mod to notify when the Shroud becomes available again? Press f1. It will show you a timer in your list of effects in the lower right of the window.
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Apr 29, 2017 01:14
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