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Randarkman posted:Except the guy i responded to did. No, he very clearly did not.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:16
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Notes non-communist country East Germany. This is incredibly dumb. Have your victory if that's what you want
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Apr 29, 2017 09:18
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Now you're just not making any sense at all.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:19
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Ostalgie is cute.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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TheRat posted:Now you're just not making any sense at all. You have me vanquished and at a loss for words.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:22
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TheRat posted:Can't we all just agree that both GDR and America are awful and no one sane would want to live in either? Randarkman posted:Jesus Christ. doverhog posted:Sure, but would you prefer to live in an European social democracy or Trump's America? Randarkman posted:moving the goalposts are we? Tell me again, who first started comparing America to communist countries thereby moving the goalposts?
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Apr 29, 2017 09:25
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I am already smitten and cowering before my conqueror. Will you not be merciful?
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Apr 29, 2017 09:27
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blowfish posted:Ostalgie is cute. i like the little people on the traffic lights, with their little hats
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Apr 29, 2017 09:30
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doverhog posted:You are really naive, and also don't know what feudalism means. In feudalism the king, and the hierarchy all they way down, have a contract with their subjects, where they receive their service and offer protection in return. Neoliberalism offers nothing but suffering, poverty and death for those who lose the social lottery. Feudalism is objectively a better system of government than neoliberal capitalism. Are you actually advocating serfdom over the current system EDIT: gently caress it, there's no point even debating this if you're going to just be a contrarian.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:33
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I'm advocating for social democracy, you are the one who brought up feudalism. However, a neoliberal market fanatic doesn't believe in any protections for the poor, whereas in feudalism they are key to the whole concept, and thus it is better. It's a philosophical question: do you believe society has the responsibility to take care of it's members, or is it ok for them to die in the name of efficient markets and economic growth?
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Apr 29, 2017 09:42
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doverhog posted:in feudalism they (protections for the poor) are key to the whole concept This guy is killing me
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Apr 29, 2017 09:56
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doverhog posted:I'm advocating for social democracy, you are the one who brought up feudalism. The guy I was responding to said "Really, it's a return to the ancien regime". Hence my mention of feudalism. Are you going to argue the ancien régime wasn't a feudal system? (you seem to have quite some misconceptions about it, I understand.) I'm not going to debate the merits and downsides of loving feudalism versus neoliberal capitalism with you, but rest assured that feudalism did not give a single poo poo about poor people. I'm just bewildered by your sudden defense of feudalism.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:02
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It's not a defense of feudalism, it's an attack on neoliberal capitalism.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:04
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Destroy both feudalism and capitalism wherever it exists. Problem solved.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:08
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Doctor Malaver posted:This guy is killing me Also meanwhile, notable shitstain& self proclaimed "gaulist", right winger candidate Dupont-Aignan (4.75% of the votes on the first round) called people to vote for Le Pen.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:08
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Kassad posted:Destroy both feudalism and capitalism wherever it exists. Problem solved. But you forget people can only tackle one problem at a time! For example I need to tie my shoelace so I may forget to breathe for a short while.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:09
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Toplowtech posted:Also meanwhile, notable shitstain& self proclaimed "gaulist", right winger candidate Dupont-Aignan (4.75% of the votes on the first round) called people to vote for Le Pen. https://twitter.com/afpfr/status/858248016947548164 If she wins, Le Pen will name him Prime Minister.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:19
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doverhog posted:However, a neoliberal market fanatic doesn't believe in any protections for the poor, whereas in feudalism they are key to the whole concept, and thus it is better.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:22
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Kassad posted:If she wins, Le Pen will name him Prime Minister. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 10:25
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BabyFur Denny posted:Ever heard of survivor's bias? Of course the people that gave their life trying to get away from that dump couldn't tell you now how lovely a place the GDR was. The people you know probably were the ones spying on their neighbours and reporting every dissenter to the StaSi. You know, the (incredibly large) percentage of Stasi informers in the former DDR is suspiciously similar to Die Linke's average percentage of the vote there. Nostalgia for the time they could make their irritating neighbor disappear forever because he was, hmm, a class enemy. Deltasquid posted:The guy I was responding to said "Really, it's a return to the ancien regime". Hence my mention of feudalism. Are you going to argue the ancien régime wasn't a feudal system? (you seem to have quite some misconceptions about it, I understand.) Feudalism as a system had largely ended in Western Europe by 1500, according to most scholars. The Ancien Régime lasted until the 18th century. They're not synonymous. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 10:32
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Kassad posted:https://twitter.com/afpfr/status/858248016947548164  as if i needed another reason to not vote le pen
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Apr 29, 2017 11:06
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Toplowtech posted:She promised him to make him Prime Minister. For the 3.5% out of his 4.5% who were already going to vote for her anyway. Empty promise if you ask me. He would get a minister like agriculture or fishing, at best. His 50 silver coins. No wait he will get nothing because he got no party ready for the parliamentary elections. maybe dlf (lol at that acronym) can join the siel as one of the fn's satellite parties
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Apr 29, 2017 11:08
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Phlegmish posted:Feudalism as a system had largely ended in Western Europe by 1500, according to most scholars. The Ancien Régime lasted until the 18th century. They're not synonymous.
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Apr 29, 2017 12:17
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The relevant parts are: - separate justice systems for the nobles and the commoners - nobles have privileges, such as being tax exempt - commoners are treated like dirt, they have to obey the nobles and they are the only ones who pay the taxes Neoliberalism says that: - corporations and rich people can use private arbitration courts instead of the justice system - corporations and the wealthy need to be tax exempt because trickle down growth reaganomics - employees should shut up and work more, unions are bad, workplace regulations are bad, welfare is unaffordable So yes, neoliberalism is neofeodalism.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:31
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Wolfgang Schaüble is due to give a lecture at my university in May...
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Apr 29, 2017 13:36
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Deltasquid posted:Wolfgang Schaüble is due to give a lecture at my university in May... Try to make your university extremely wheelchair inaccessible before he comes.
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Apr 29, 2017 13:41
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Don't do this, he'll be carried in, like it and get the old papal chair. Then he'll go around on that carried by a Greek, a Spaniard, an Irishman and a Cypriot. And GC clapping behind him.
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Apr 29, 2017 14:00
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Shibawanko posted:I have known multiple people who were adults in the GDR and who said it was not perfect, but acceptable and livable. Maybe modern day America is livable for you, probably because you're either not poor, not black, not hispanic or not chronically ill or whatever other state of being that makes life in modern day America pretty awful. Of course, a country so successful that it completely abolished itself at the very first chance it got. What meager material wealth the GDR managed to scrape together was bought with an enormous debt crisis. By the 80s, its economy(like the Soviet one) was incredibly inefficient, corrupt, dysfunctional and unsustainable and collapsed like a wet sack of poo poo as a result. I'm not even gonna go into the political and cultural aspect of it. It's a gigantic loving insult to everyone who had to live through all the oppression, torture and misery to just say "well, at least we had useless, barely paid jobs and if you kept your head down you got to drink coffee once a year. beats being black in the US.  "
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Apr 29, 2017 15:10
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Cat Mattress posted:The relevant parts are: Or rather that neoliberalism/libertarinism will devolve into feudalism. Libertarians fail to understand that without the state to regulate the economy, the so-called free market will turn less and less free because there is no equal oppurtunity and the major powers will protect themselves by creating monopolies/oligopolies to keep competitors out.
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Apr 29, 2017 15:39
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Piketty on the second round of the French election: http://www.liberation.fr/debats/201...time=1493476750quote:A plus court terme, il y a ce second tour Le Pen-Macron. Quel regard portez-vous sur ce duel ? Bad translation: In the near future, there will be a second round runoff between Le Pen and Macron. What is your opinion about this contest? Above all, in the days to come, we must bear one thing in mind: it is vital to do everything we can to ensure that Marine Le Pen is beaten by the widest possible margin. I understand that left wing voters who backed Hamon, Mélenchon, Arthaud, or Poutou may be frustrated about having to vote for Macron; if the left had been united, it could have been represented in the second round. However, under the circumstances, it is essential to support Macron. First, because we cannot allow the gradual normalisation of the idea that the extreme right could one day win power. 70%-30% is a very different thing to 55% - 45%. Second, because the higher Macron's share of the vote, the clearer it will be that it was not his program that we supported. He won only 24% of the vote in the first round, and much of his support was due to tactical voting (only around 15% voted for him out of conviction). The higher his score, the stronger the statement that it was not his program that won but the extreme right that was rejected. We must not allow Macron to believe that he became the last bulwark against the FN because of his ideas or personal qualities.
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Apr 29, 2017 16:36
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That's actually a pretty good point. Nobody thinks 82% of France actually wanted Chirac's policies, after all.
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Apr 29, 2017 16:40
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fishmech posted:While I was never saying that, why do you believe liberal policies have been in existence for centuries if nobody "really" wants them? I think you're falling into the fallacy of "everyone's a secret opponent to liberalism" when everything else shows that most people don't pay attention and of those that do there are certainly plenty who think "liberalism" is the correct way to do things, just as others think any other political orientation is the correct way to do things. I understand what you're saying, but I think it's unnecessarily generous towards liberalism to say that people who enjoyed liberalism's fruits are also ideologically in support of liberalism. I'm not going to disagree that, yes, there are a lot of people who support economic liberalism as an ideology. It would be naïve to do otherwise. But I think it's also naïve to attribute votes towards centrist liberal parties to ideological support as well. I suppose I should specify my usage of the terminology, if someone gets a payrise, or a well-paying job, or is able to open a business, and thinks to themselves "that's liberalism, I am a liberal", without associating liberalism with things like deregulation, or a reduction of labour rights, that is not ideological support, even if they personally identify with that political space.
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Apr 29, 2017 17:19
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vyelkin posted:That's actually a pretty good point. Nobody thinks 82% of France actually wanted Chirac's policies, after all. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 17:33
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vyelkin posted:That's actually a pretty good point. Nobody thinks 82% of France actually wanted Chirac's policies, after all. Yet that's what remains in the end. People remember that Chirac won by a landslide. Will be the same for Macron. If he wins by a big margin they'll use this to consider all his future austerity moves are popular and desired.
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Apr 29, 2017 17:51
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Of course, a country so successful that it completely abolished itself at the very first chance it got. a black person, right now, would prefer living in the GDR tho
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Apr 29, 2017 18:11
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Goa Tse-tung posted:a black person, right now, would prefer living in the GDR tho
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Apr 29, 2017 18:24
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Goa Tse-tung posted:a black person, right now, would prefer living in the GDR tho that number of people is probably in the single digit range
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Apr 29, 2017 18:35
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YF-23 posted:I understand what you're saying, but I think it's unnecessarily generous towards liberalism to say that people who enjoyed liberalism's fruits are also ideologically in support of liberalism. I'm not going to disagree that, yes, there are a lot of people who support economic liberalism as an ideology. It would be naïve to do otherwise. But I think it's also naïve to attribute votes towards centrist liberal parties to ideological support as well. If you don't think there's plenty of people who actively support deregulation, reducing labor rights etc because they think they're not necessary, well. I congratulate you on your optimistic view of people, but warn you you're missing that a lot of people think those are pointless restrictions which they don't need because they did everything on their own because they're not lazy. They are wrong of course, but they still believe it.
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Apr 29, 2017 18:40
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Goa Tse-tung posted:a black person, right now, would prefer living in the GDR tho Clearly, we can trust the official GDR data on there being basically no attacks on non-Germans during the glorious reign of socialism. The noticeably higher incidence of race motivated crimes in the former GDR states when compared to Germany is probably just an aftereffect of capitalism bringing ruin to the glorious GDR.
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Apr 29, 2017 18:44
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Granted, I doubt most Westerns would prefer to live in the GDR (there was always a disparity of living standards), that said significant percentage of modern-day Russians would rather live in the Soviet Union and they might have a point. Also, yeah Eastern Germany also experienced its own form of shock therapy during the 1990s...so there might be something to that.
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Apr 29, 2017 18:56
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