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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2017 06:04
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sincx posted:God drat what did Xi do to turn Trump like this.
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Apr 29, 2017 06:07
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sincx posted:God drat what did Xi do to turn Trump like this. Approved his trademarking of the Trump brand in China and Ivanka's too. I'm not joking. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/16/no-fake-trump-hotels-in-china-but-no-special-favors-for-the-president-either/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/19/ivanka-trump-brand-china-trademarks-day-us-president-met-xi-jinping
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Apr 29, 2017 06:06
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sincx posted:God drat what did Xi do to turn Trump like this. introduced him to dim sum "THEY PUT SOUP IN A DUMPLING. VERY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE."
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Apr 29, 2017 06:19
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Didn't realise North Korea has detained a UVA college student since last year. Kid was a moron though -quote:
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Apr 29, 2017 07:00
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shrike82 posted:Didn't realise North Korea has detained a UVA college student since last year. Kid was a moron though - Most Americans that voluntarily go to NK are.
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Apr 29, 2017 07:21
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RandomBlue posted:Most Americans that voluntarily go to NK are. Either trying to up their hipster cred or got drunk and listened a little too hard to a political science 101 prof in community college. Can't say my sympathy's leading to the fore with these imbeciles.
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Apr 29, 2017 09:35
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shrike82 posted:Didn't realise North Korea has detained a UVA college student since last year. Kid was a moron though - It was brought up both in this and other threads. I guess it's not really defensible on the part of the north korean government, but he really ought to have known better if he didn't want to end up in the hole.
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Apr 29, 2017 10:58
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Tias posted:It was brought up both in this and other threads. I guess it's not really defensible on the part of the north korean government, but he really ought to have known better if he didn't want to end up in the hole. He was expecting Dennis Rodman to Scooby Doo a rescue negotiation.
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Apr 29, 2017 14:07
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Lote posted:Future of Korea Megathread -- expecting Dennis Rodman to Scooby Doo a rescue negotiation
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Apr 29, 2017 16:34
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Lote posted:Future of Korea Megathread -- expecting Dennis Rodman to Scooby Doo a rescue negotiation
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Apr 29, 2017 16:41
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sincx posted:God drat what did Xi do to turn Trump like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByMTB6n6HVU OhFunny posted:Approved his trademarking of the Trump brand in China and Ivanka's too.
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Apr 29, 2017 16:42
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Fiction posted:That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying Washington is illegitimately placing a radar system that is compromising to China's sovereign airspace without the consent of the south Korean people as they are literally just about to elect the guy who wants to talk over this whole "annoy China at great cost to south Korea so America can continue to play god" thing. You mean like the existing air defense RADARs, airborne surveillance RADARs, powerful shipborne air defense RADARs, etc. that the US, Japan, and South Korea already operate in the area? Or do you mean the similar ones China operates that see everything in Japanese/Vietnamese/South Korean airspace? I mean the Aegis ships and Japanese/Korean analogs aren't far off in capability and any AWACS flying in the area have a much greater range. Are you suggesting that South Korea and China's various other neighbors should not be allowed to operate powerful air defense RADAR systems inside their own country to respect Chinese privacy? How does that mesh with the long range air defense RADARs China set up near them or those now operating on manmade islands offshore various countries in the South China Sea? Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 18:57
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Warbadger posted:Are you suggesting that South Korea and China's various other neighbors should not be allowed to operate powerful air defense RADAR systems inside their own country to respect Chinese privacy? How does that mesh with the long range air defense RADARs China set up near them or those now operating on manmade islands offshore various countries in the South China Sea? "Are you suggesting that Cuba and the US's various other neighbors should not be allowed to operate powerful nuclear missile systems inside their own country to respect US demands? How does that mesh with the nuclear missiles the US set up near them or those now operating near various countries around the world?" - you, October 1963 The US doesn't exactly have a history of respecting other countries' right to host military hardware the US doesn't like, and therefore isn't in any particular position to cry foul when that oft-repeated script is turned against them.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:05
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Do you think if Russia objected to NATO putting missile defense systems in Poland it would be legit?
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Apr 29, 2017 20:12
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I got a question. All the big South Korean politicians are acting upset about the THAAD stuff, right? But how much of that is genuine upsetness, and how much is acting upset but secretly relieved that the THAAD got installed in a way that lets them act like they didn't want it to happen?
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Apr 29, 2017 20:20
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Guy Goodbody posted:I got a question. All the big South Korean politicians are acting upset about the THAAD stuff, right? But how much of that is genuine upsetness, and how much is acting upset but secretly relieved that the THAAD got installed in a way that lets them act like they didn't want it to happen? depends on whether you think koreans are human beings or eusocial instruments of us policy
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Apr 29, 2017 20:35
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R. Guyovich posted:depends on whether you think koreans are human beings or eusocial instruments of us policy I think Koreans are people. A lot of people, there's millions of them. So some of them can think one thing, and others can think a different thing. The way it's being talked about it's like all the Koreans are mad and don't want THAAD.
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Apr 29, 2017 20:40
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i think it's wise to take potential heads of state at their word and assume if they are elected it's because the people voting for them are also doing that
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Apr 29, 2017 20:46
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R. Guyovich posted:i think it's wise to take potential heads of state at their word and assume if they are elected it's because the people voting for them are also doing that 
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Apr 29, 2017 20:50
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Main Paineframe posted:"Are you suggesting that Cuba and the US's various other neighbors should not be allowed to operate powerful nuclear missile systems inside their own country to respect US demands? How does that mesh with the nuclear missiles the US set up near them or those now operating near various countries around the world?" - you, October 1963 This comparison makes no sense. Radars aren't nukes, China isn't the USA, South Korea isn't Cuba, and it isn't 1963. Although I have noticed authoritarian apologists trot this poo poo out constantly when advocating Chinese or Russian imperialism. Even if we assume it's a 1:1 comparison, you clearly think it was wrong for the USA to pressure Cuba, so why is it okay for China to pressure South Korea? Guy Goodbody posted:I got a question. All the big South Korean politicians are acting upset about the THAAD stuff, right? But how much of that is genuine upsetness, and how much is acting upset but secretly relieved that the THAAD got installed in a way that lets them act like they didn't want it to happen? They aren't really acting all that upset about THAAD. This thread is blowing their opposition way out of proportion.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:11
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Guy Goodbody posted:I think Koreans are people. A lot of people, there's millions of them. So some of them can think one thing, and others can think a different thing. The way it's being talked about it's like all the Koreans are mad and don't want THAAD. My impression is that 6 months ago there was pretty clearly a majority opposed to it, but the heavy-handed response from China has pissed off the Korean public so much that right now it would probably get majority support Here's a poll of country approval ratings from the survey I posted earlier 
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Apr 29, 2017 21:34
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I don't know what's dumber, China expecting blacklisting SK companies over THAAD won't backfire or Trump saying they better pony up 1 billion bucks. Most people don't take well to threats, and Koreans are definitely no exception.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:40
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I just hope China does something. Something decisive and brutal and unilateral and without a care. They should just move in. Invade and take over the whole North. Russia could too but they're a very distant second choice for this. NK has cost China far too much. I know how Mao owed the first Kim guy a debt for helping against the Japanese and then forcing Kai-Shek back to Taiwan, but that sort of debt only goes so far. Mao wasting his veterans on useless assaults against your MacArthur guy should have paid for that. Far too many people have died over China's unwillingness to reign them in forcefully. As in, with tanks. Do it, China! I know it'll be tough, it'll be very costly, but they are just bleeding you! Do it or the South will! It's taken too long, and now 70-ish years have past and people are still dying. The loving grandkids of the first soldiers there are dying of this!
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Apr 29, 2017 22:06
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Fojar38 posted:Even if we assume it's a 1:1 comparison, you clearly think it was wrong for the USA to pressure Cuba, so why is it okay for China to pressure South Korea? Eh? Where did I say that I thought it was wrong? I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:04
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Instead of the enormous difference in circumstances.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:28
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Main Paineframe posted:"Are you suggesting that Cuba and the US's various other neighbors should not be allowed to operate powerful nuclear missile systems inside their own country to respect US demands? How does that mesh with the nuclear missiles the US set up near them or those now operating near various countries around the world?" - you, October 1963 THAAD is not a nuclear weapon, with none of the implications of one. Cuba did set up powerful Soviet air search RADARs and air defenses, though. The US did not throw a tantrum over it, despite flying planes through Cuban airspace and getting one shot down by them. So it's kind of like that but without the missiles to shoot down planes (which, unlike a ballistic missile, may not be flying over to blow poo poo up) and without a simmering conflict between the two parties. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Apr 29, 2017 |
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Apr 29, 2017 23:30
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IronClaymore posted:I just hope China does something. Something decisive and brutal and unilateral and without a care. They should just move in. Invade and take over the whole North. Russia could too but they're a very distant second choice for this. NK has cost China far too much. I know how Mao owed the first Kim guy a debt for helping against the Japanese and then forcing Kai-Shek back to Taiwan, but that sort of debt only goes so far. Mao wasting his veterans on useless assaults against your MacArthur guy should have paid for that. Far too many people have died over China's unwillingness to reign them in forcefully. seek help
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Apr 29, 2017 23:31
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R. Guyovich posted:seek help Shush you, I can't afford it. My country's finances are better served in supporting our military if there is ever an action against North Korea. I don't know about you, but I am willing to sacrifice a hell of a lot to see them safe.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:37
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war on the peninsula is going to hurt a hell of a lot more people than the status quo
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Apr 30, 2017 00:01
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Warbadger posted:THAAD is not a nuclear weapon, with none of the implications of one. the us was so chill and calm in that scenario they put nuclear missiles in range of the soviet union years before the plane was shot down
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Apr 30, 2017 02:25
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WarpedNaba posted:Either trying to up their hipster cred or got drunk and listened a little too hard to a political science 101 prof in community college. Can't say my sympathy's leading to the fore with these imbeciles. You aren't curious to see what North Korea is like? It's like the most secretive, isolated country, I would love to go if I could.
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Apr 30, 2017 03:32
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Burt Buckle posted:You aren't curious to see what North Korea is like? It's like the most secretive, isolated country, I would love to go if I could. There's a difference between curious and morbidly curious. I'd rather not assist in funding that regime.
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Apr 30, 2017 03:37
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Burt Buckle posted:You aren't curious to see what North Korea is like? It's like the most secretive, isolated country, I would love to go if I could. koryo and young pioneers both do tours regularly
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Apr 30, 2017 03:42
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Korea is a magical place, unicorns and martial artists are as common as the clouds
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Apr 30, 2017 03:42
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Koramei posted:war on the peninsula is going to hurt a hell of a lot more people than the status quo From a strictly utilitarian view, the moral thing to do is immediate war and regime change. The longer N.Korea maintains the status quo, the greater number of people that suffer in aggregate. Suppose N.Korea would last another 80 years with the status quo. Generations of people yet unborn are destined for a horrible fate. Looking at an 60-80 year timespan, less people would be killed total and less suffering inflicted if we waged war on N.Korea in 2017, even if the North suffered millions of deaths. Another way of looking at it. If you had a time machine that could take you back 25 years, and knowing what you know now, would it be right to go back and try to convince Bill Clinton to try regime change?
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Apr 30, 2017 03:48
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TsarZiedonis posted:There is already a radar of equivalent type operational in Japan that could see everything a new radar in Korea could see, this is probably just china being a literal bully. This is a great point, thanks for pointing it out
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Apr 30, 2017 04:01
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Bishounen Bonanza posted:From a strictly utilitarian view, the moral thing to do is immediate war and regime change. The longer N.Korea maintains the status quo, the greater number of people that suffer in aggregate. Naive utility calculations like this formed part of the logic underlying the invasion of Iraq. Our experience there suggests that we should be very wary of this line of reasoning.
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Apr 30, 2017 04:02
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Burt Buckle posted:You aren't curious to see what North Korea is like? It's like the most secretive, isolated country, I would love to go if I could. Google the experience and that's about it. Unless you feel like going commando and sneaking over the border, the only experience you get in North Korea is the strictly crafted one that puts you on the rails the government wants you on. The only way to legally see the actual poo poo people live with is to be some kind of aid worker that gets begrudgingly allowed into a village. And at any given time, you may find yourself arrested and sentenced to 15 years in a gulag on trumped up charges because you're a valuable bargaining chip.
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Apr 30, 2017 04:12
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:Naive utility calculations like this formed part of the logic underlying the invasion of Iraq. Our experience there suggests that we should be very wary of this line of reasoning. Yeah but the people of North Korea will probably be better off long term with a regime change. Were conditions in Iraq under Saddam as bad as conditions in North Korea under Kim? chitoryu12 posted:Google the experience and that's about it. Unless you feel like going commando and sneaking over the border, the only experience you get in North Korea is the strictly crafted one that puts you on the rails the government wants you on. The only way to legally see the actual poo poo people live with is to be some kind of aid worker that gets begrudgingly allowed into a village. And at any given time, you may find yourself arrested and sentenced to 15 years in a gulag on trumped up charges because you're a valuable bargaining chip. I love watching those videos. The whole railroaded tour is fascinating in its own right, but I wish there was more footage of life outside the capital city. It will be fascinating to see what is uncovered after reunification (if that ever happens). Burt Buckle fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 04:15
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