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fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Detective Comics was fire this week. It's nice that Cassandra made a new friend :3. I really hope the last page of this arc is everyone at a hockey game or something.

Look how dope this looks:

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howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Teenage Fansub posted:

Batgirl is still on the boring evil app developing son of The Penguin storyline, so I'm all about Da Button.

She plays ping pong with the Penguin in this issue

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Batman/Shadow was awesome. You want some detective-rear end-Batman, check it out.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

What a good loving week for Batman this was. Detective 955 is the best fuckin Cassandra has been since POSSIBLY ever. At least since the Shiva fight in her solo book haha. Poor Clayface tho, always getting dumped in urns and poo poo. I also liked the little tidbit that Stephanie is basically doxxing the Batfamily but apparently not willing to out their real IDs.

Batman/Shadow was indeed really loving dope. I hope people don't sleep on this. I loved the art too.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

It's fun to imagine those three frantically changing back into their costumes in the seconds they got freed to the group shot.

Ugenesis
May 1, 2003

Teenage Fansub posted:

It's fun to imagine those three frantically changing back into their costumes in the seconds they got freed to the group shot.

Clayface is their clothes.

Inevitable Ross
Jul 1, 2007
Have you accepted Bob as your personal Lord and Savior?
Who else liked the author on the book Christine was reading?

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

That was easily the best issue of Detective Comics of this entire run

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.

Inevitable Ross posted:

Who else liked the author on the book Christine was reading?

Apparently she was name-dropped way back in Supergirl #2 of all things as well:



Here's hoping she doesn't turn out to be some super-secret even worse than Shiva villain or something and is the one decent member of Cass's biological family. Or dead like she was in the old continuity, I guess.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I'm in a big Bat Family mood. To be perfectly frank, I was never a huge Batman fan but he works well as the center of a really interesting universe full of interesting characters. I dunno if that makes sense but yeah.

Anyway, I got some good recs for current ongoings but what are some good, like, Robin or Nightwing stories?

I'm trying to read up on Damian since apparently he's a lot better than I was initially led to believe. This site has a lot of info on his appearances but man that is a lot to read and a lot to buy.
http://www.comicbookherald.com/damian-wayne-robin-son-of-batman-reading-order/

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Most of the Damian featured comics are pretty excellent, but there's definitely things to skip there.

Resurrection of Ras was a crossover during Morrison's run, but has nothing to do with the rest of it.
Battle for The Cowl is totally unnecessary.
Skip Teen Titans and B&R: White Knight. That's the volume of B&R after Morrison moved to Batman Inc. It wasn't anything amazing.
Forget Endgame. One of the final volumes of Snyder's series won't do anything if you haven't read the rest.
Batman and Robin Eternal isn't much of a Damian series.
Robin War was pretty average. More to do with the street kid Robin gang you wouldn't have been reading about anyway.

Just start on Batman and Son and by the time you get to N52 Incorporated, if you're a fan, follow it up with N52 Batman and Robin and then the Robin solo that followed it.

If you want to save on reading, just start the current Super Sons and Teen Titans.

Edit: As for Nightwing, I'm not too up on that persona, but Dick Grayson's time as Batman (The Black Mirror and Morrison's Batman and Robin) and his stint as a super-spy in "Grayson" are really great.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Apr 29, 2017

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Thank you for the tips on what to read.

What about Chuck Dixon's Robin and/or Nightwing runs? I've heard a lot of good things.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

NikkolasKing posted:

Thank you for the tips on what to read.

What about Chuck Dixon's Robin and/or Nightwing runs? I've heard a lot of good things.

I'm reading his Robin right now and its great. His Robin/Batgirl Year One books are good too.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!

NikkolasKing posted:

Thank you for the tips on what to read.

What about Chuck Dixon's Robin and/or Nightwing runs? I've heard a lot of good things.

As you should. As much as people poo poo on Dixon these days those runs were great. It's one of the primary reasons that Tim Drake is my favorite DC character. I don't know how other people feel about it, but I also enjoyed his time with Connor Hawke on the Green Arrow book during those years, though not quite as much. During that time I thought he was really on a roll.

X-O fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Apr 30, 2017

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

I hope Cass just drops the Orphan moniker and goes straight to Black Bat.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

Fallen Rib

NikkolasKing posted:

Thank you for the tips on what to read.

What about Chuck Dixon's Robin and/or Nightwing runs? I've heard a lot of good things.

Absolutely check out Dixon's Robin run. I never read much Nightwing but assume it was good too. His Detective Comics run isn't bad either, and it was running concurrently to Moench and Jones Batman run which which is one of my fave Batman run.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

Dixon on Robin and Nightwing is better than Dixon on Batman. Especially Robin.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
Dixon's Nightwing was my first American comic that I read more than one random issue of. I remember picking up the first 2 or 3 trades from an actual bookstore and just fell in love, even with some of the kitschier elements, like Dick's Chinese-Irish landlady/love-interest and his weird factory-Nightwingcave and Nightwingmobile that just looked like normal cars because he could swap the body out to disguise it.

Inevitable Ross
Jul 1, 2007
Have you accepted Bob as your personal Lord and Savior?

hiddenriverninja posted:

I hope Cass just drops the Orphan moniker and goes straight to Black Bat.

The story I've heard is that DC doesn't actually have the rights to the 'Black Bat' name. Orphan is probably here to stay, but on the bright side, it means that she can jump over to non-Batfam books more easily since she's not really tied down to them.

lotus circle
Dec 25, 2012

Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Inevitable Ross posted:

The story I've heard is that DC doesn't actually have the rights to the 'Black Bat' name. Orphan is probably here to stay, but on the bright side, it means that she can jump over to non-Batfam books more easily since she's not really tied down to them.
Honestly she should just drop the moniker and go by her name. Cass has never cared about secret identities, only the people around her have. She only really grows attached to Batgirl because of her attachment to Barbara. And honestly it doesn't have to be Black Bat. That was a moniker given to her because DC is stupid and the idea of multiple women carrying the Batgirl name confounds them, so they wanted to reintroduce Cass after sloppily writing her off but needed a new name.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

She corrected someone calling her Orphan last issue. Could mean she's going moniker-less all together.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
After that last issue and all the themes thereof, I wouldn't mind "The Shadow" as her new codename...though I can't possibly imagine DC owning rights to that name.

Shadowbat? Shadowgirl?

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

BrianWilly posted:

After that last issue and all the themes thereof, I wouldn't mind "The Shadow" as her new codename...though I can't possibly imagine DC owning rights to that name.

Shadowbat? Shadowgirl?


"My name... my name is Cain. Sugar Cain."

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

hiddenriverninja posted:

"My name... my name is Cain. Sugar Cain."

Cass comes out of her shell as a Juggalette.

edit: Bane digital sale featuring the three 600+ page Knightfall collections for $6 a piece.
https://www.comixology.com/Bane-Sale/page/14854?ref=c2l0ZS9pbmRleC9kZXNrdG9wL2xhcmdlQ2Fyb3VzZWw

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 10:10 on May 2, 2017

KaosMachina
Oct 9, 2012

There's nothing special about me.

BrianWilly posted:

After that last issue and all the themes thereof, I wouldn't mind "The Shadow" as her new codename...though I can't possibly imagine DC owning rights to that name.

Shadowbat? Shadowgirl?

Blackbat.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

I just really want to see them do something with the bat she drew on her face in blood back in Eternal, that was a loving look.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

King just got the 'Good Boy' story from the Batman Annual nominated for an Eisner :)
https://www.comic-con.org/awards/eisner-awards-nominations-2017

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
Batgirl is also up for best teen series, I believe.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

I forgot this was a Detective Comics week and left my tablet at home :( I'm tempted to find a LCS near my work and pick up a copy just to read, I really want to see how this arc ends.

purple death ray
Jul 28, 2007

me omw 2 steal ur girl

fadam posted:

I forgot this was a Detective Comics week and left my tablet at home :( I'm tempted to find a LCS near my work and pick up a copy just to read, I really want to see how this arc ends.

It's good!

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.
They set up the fun outing to the ballet, and then the comic runs out of pages and it doesn't happen! I felt betrayed! :argh:

Edit: Also, I'm not sure how much I liked the resolution to this arc. I loved the ending to Cass's arc (though she totally should have gotten at least a new bat-themed costume or something), but Shiva is resolved with a pretty literal deus ex machina. It all seems like a setup for another arc. Now we've got the mystery of why Shiva was so pissed off at Ra's and what she whispered to Cass. And I'm guessing Shiva's gonna get resurrected in a Lazarus Pit so she's not gonna be dead for long.

Darth Nat fucked around with this message at 19:16 on May 10, 2017

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

Fallen Rib

Darth Nat posted:

They set up the fun outing to the ballet, and then the comic runs out of pages and it doesn't happen! I felt betrayed! :argh:



I was seriously hoping that the last page would have been her watching the ballet with a smile on her face.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009
To be fair, JT4's approach to the double shipping and short arcs thing seems to be to treat 'Tec more like an old school title and have lots of running threads that can weave in and out, like Claremont or Wolfman used to do.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



"Too stupid, or too civilized. One's the same as the other in Gotham City." -Jim Gordon

Just finished reading The Dark Knight Returns for the first time.

I won't pretend to have any startling insight on a work that was probably examined to death even before I was born. All I want to offer is how very different the reality is from my expectations.

I've heard that Nolan's Batman, Snyder's BvS, it was all supposedly inspired by this work. I also know Miller wrote Sin City. All that in mind, the first things that jumped out at me in this was the art. I'm not a good judge of art but you really can't help but fail to notice how stylized(Is that the right word?) everything is. It's also very colorful. Both of those things fly in the face of "dark and gritty" like I was imagining. Most characters look absurd and silly and even someone like Carrie, a character we're supposed to take seriously, has a weird sort of...well, Miller liked Japanese anime and manga so maybe that's where her design came from. That and her design makes me think of those Beatnik/hippie aliens from 80s TMNT.

This was also apparently written around the same time as Watchmen and I just finished reading that for the first time also. In spite of how..."surreal" everything is in this compared to Watchmen, I genuinely feel like Watchmen had a more optimistic tone. The world of TDKR feels beyond redemption. It's a disease that can only be kept at bay, but not cured. Some people I had talked to made this sound like it was a load of Batwank where Batman is a clearly in the right. That seems to go against every other panel of the story. I remember very pointedly one scene had a Talking Head discussing how Batman's return was putting antisocial programming into the youths of today. Cut to panel of Robin Carrie. Then another Talking Head says all it's doing is making people stand up for themselves again. Another shot of Carrie follows. The whole story is like that, a nonstop back-and-forth with both sides being occasionally correct but mostly simplistic and stupid.

It feels to me like the only conclusion one can draw from this comic is that everyone in the world is loving crazy and we just have to hope that a King Crazy will emerge. He's still psychotic, he's still going to cause problems, but he'll also fix things along the way. So can we judge him?

I enjoyed it, possibly because it wasn't what I expected at all. I have to read "Daredevil: The Man Without Fear" next.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

NikkolasKing posted:

This was also apparently written around the same time as Watchmen and I just finished reading that for the first time also. In spite of how..."surreal" everything is in this compared to Watchmen, I genuinely feel like Watchmen had a more optimistic tone. The world of TDKR feels beyond redemption. It's a disease that can only be kept at bay, but not cured.
Have you heard the stories of Miller's early experiences in New York?

THR posted:

One of the things that led you to create Dark Knight Returns was a series of muggings. What happened?

There's something demeaning about the first time you're knocked to the ground and punched in the stomach and have a gun waved in your face and realize that you're completely at somebody's mercy. And they can take your life. And at that point, you'll do anything. There's something so humiliating about that. And to me that made me realize that Batman was the most potent symbol DC had in its hands. Sure, Superman can fly, but Batman turns me back into that guy who is scared and at the same time the guy who can come and save him. It's a perfect myth.

Wired posted:

Miller moved to Taxi Driver-era New York City in 1976, a nervous, lanky hick, an Ichabod Crane in a land of “danger around every corner.” Subsisting on peanut butter sandwiches and cheap hamburger meat, clutching a portfolio held together with stolen baling twine, he was met with rejection at every turn. Go back to Vermont and pump gas, people would tell him. He found work doing carpentry on a stranger's loft, but it turned out that the client was a cocaine dealer wanted by the Mafia. Miller walked in one morning to face “men with guns, pointed at me. The next thing I remember, I was three blocks away, breathing hard.” It wasn't the last time city life would terrorize him.
...
the everyday violence in Manhattan at the time was taking its toll. “New York is no longer fit for human habitation,” Miller told one friend. After enduring three robberies in the course of a month, he and Varley decided to escape to LA. While she went out west to search for a home, he stayed behind to set up more work to get them out of debt. He had a check in his pocket when, once again, someone tried to rob him. “Frank just went berserk on the guy,” Varley says. “He didn't hit him or anything, he just went so berserk the guy backed off and ran away. We were on edge.”


If you haven't read Batman Year One it's worth bumping to the top of your list, because it's excellent in its own right and is an obvious companion piece to TDKR.

Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 07:24 on May 11, 2017

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Doctor Spaceman posted:

Have you heard the stories of Miller's early experiences in New York?




If you haven't read Batman Year One it's worth bumping to the top of your list, because it's excellent in its own right and is an obvious companion piece to TDKR.

Indeed I have. I read a whole book about Frank Miller which covers that rough time in his life.

If you're curious, I made a post on CBR with quotes from the book: The book was really good and is why I'm reading Daredevil who I originally had no real interest in.

And yeah I do plan to pick up Year One. Just kind of broke at the moment.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
Thanks, I'll give it a look.

After you've read Daredevil have a look at Alan Moore's parody of Miller's Daredevil.

Was Taters
Jul 30, 2004

Here comes a regular

NikkolasKing posted:

Thank you for the tips on what to read.

What about Chuck Dixon's Robin and/or Nightwing runs? I've heard a lot of good things.

I know I'm like 11 days late, but yes absolutely. Dixon paired with McDaniel is really fun to read.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

This was by far the best issue of All-Star. Fantastic.
Snyder needs to let himself be this kind of fun more often.


e: It's weird that the villain is only revealed on the cover.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 18:30 on May 11, 2017

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fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Speaking of Snyder, apparently a lot of people (myself included) misinterpreted the news about him ending ASB. He went on Twitter to clarify that it's not happening any time soon, we still have like 15 issues to go.

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