|
Forums Terrorist posted:Adam Smith Institute. And here I was about to compare and contrast neoliberalism to libertarianism as practical ideologies, but I guess there never was much of a difference anyway.
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:21 |
|
|
Neoliberalism is libertarianism for people who don't want to be publically associated with free markets in children.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:43
|
|
|
mcgovern was stabbed in the back by his own party (a good number of peeps from the dems actually advocated for voting nixon, etc.). hillary had every possible advantage, and still found a way to lose to idiot trump. hillary is the worst dem candidate in history, bar none
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:Neoliberalism is libertarianism for people who don't want to be publically associated with free markets in children.*
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:45
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:And here I was about to compare and contrast neoliberalism to libertarianism as practical ideologies, but I guess there never was much of a difference anyway. theoretically there's a decent contrast between the role of government in both ("overbearing corporate welfare bureaucracy" vs "small enough to drown in a bathtub, strong enough to violently enforce private property rights on all citizens") but practically they result in the same conditions for most people: bad and the economics of both are exactly the same of course
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
I said publically. COME ON DOWN TO THE LOLITA EXPRESS, CATERING BY COMET PIZZA!!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:Neoliberalism is libertarianism for people who don't want to be publically associated with free markets in children. I'd say the real difference is that libertarianism is explicitly ideological while neoliberalism pretends to be post-ideological. Libertarianism has a, deeply flawed, vision of what it considers an ideal society to look like, whereas neoliberalism never explicitly states its intentions and is more of a situational frame of mind which shapes policy. Libertarianism may be a convenient tool for Capital to exploit, but its own logical consistencies lead it into inconvenient places like advocating legalized child porn. Neoliberalism on the other hand, never has to go anywhere uncomfortable because it doesn't have a rigid set of precepts which help define it. It's the realized ideology of the bourgeoisie, and because it has become the hegemonic ideology it can also pretend that its goals are post-ideological. Austerity regimes aren't neoliberal, they're just necessary and make good sense. Only an unserious person would be against necessary cutbacks.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:No. McGovern ran a better campaign. Awww, and here I thought you liked me! Well, I guess I'll just have to keep trying extra hard then. Forums Terrorist posted:Adam Smith Institute.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
Condiv posted:mcgovern was stabbed in the back by his own party (a good number of peeps from the dems actually advocated for voting nixon, etc.). hillary had every possible advantage, and still found a way to lose to idiot trump. was McGovern the one who said he was "one thousand percent" behind his VP who had been getting mental health treatment and then dropped him like a good idea when the news coverage turned against him?
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:was McGovern the one who said he was "one thousand percent" behind his VP who had been getting mental health treatment And it's worth pointing out that Eagleton wasn't just receiving treatment, his depression was by all accounts not under control and he'd been hospitalized several times for it, yet didn't feel that this was something that he needed to disclose.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 22:35
|
|
|
Still a better choice than, uh. I actually forgot Hillary's VP again, this isn't a joke. I actually wanted to say Mike Pence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:I follow politics and I am still having trouble understanding what people mean when they say "neoliberal", because some of the time it means "whatever the person thinks Hillary would have theoretically stood for if she'd won" and sometimes it is "warhawk populist Democrat" and sometimes it is "capitalist Democrat" and so statements like that just end up being meaningless to me. Neoliberalism supportx austerity through financialization of government against democratic needs, favoring "apolitical" technocrats and privatization of public services, borderless capital to detach from regulation and eternal war to drive the supply of desperate illegal labor as a way to irrationally keep "inflation" down. It's privatization of profit and socialization of risk as policy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:14
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Still a better choice than, uh. I actually forgot Hillary's VP again, this isn't a joke. I actually wanted to say Mike Pence. Tim Kaine, who:
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:24
|
|
|
Top City Homo posted:Neoliberalism supportx austerity through financialization of government against democratic needs, favoring "apolitical" technocrats and privatization of public services, borderless capital to detach from regulation and eternal war to drive the supply of desperate illegal labor as a way to irrationally keep "inflation" down. It's privatization of profit and socialization of risk as policy. boy howdy that's a lot of two dollar words
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:27
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Still a better choice than, uh. I actually forgot Hillary's VP again, this isn't a joke. I actually wanted to say Mike Pence.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:boy howdy that's a lot of two dollar words I like to keep it fancy when i word salad 
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:Tim Kaine, who:
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 00:02
|
|
|
Oh my god I just realized Tim Kaine was 100% analogous to Al Gore. Fuckin Clintons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
Talmonis posted:I agree with you. This isn't what seems to be the consensus here though. When the only options are power hungry lunatics you can't stop them all
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
Brother Entropy posted:
i thought it was pence that played the harmonica
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
Forums Terrorist posted:i thought it was pence that played the harmonica pence isn't allowed to learn any instruments because mother said music excites him more than a moral christian man should be allowed (it was kaine, i remember because at the time i thought 'oh that's a mildly cute quirk for them to push i guess' but as time passed i noticed that was the one remotely distinguishing thing about him as a human being)
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 05:04
|
|
|
clintons delenda est imo
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:was McGovern the one who said he was "one thousand percent" behind his VP who had been getting mental health treatment tbf, mcgovern was p desperate for a VP at this point. as i said, the dem party stabbed him in the back, and part of that was several of his first choices completely refusing to be his veep. too bad the dems were more concerned with making sure the radical hippie doesn't win and decided to help nixon instead of their own candidate
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 14:36
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:I follow politics and I am still having trouble understanding what people mean when they say "neoliberal", You should read this book A Brief History of Neoliberalism: https://www.amazon.ca/Brief-History-Neoliberalism-David-Harvey/dp/0199283273 From the introduction: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
Imagine being a democrat in 2017. LMAO!!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
Alienwarehouse posted:You should read this book A Brief History of Neoliberalism: https://www.amazon.ca/Brief-History-Neoliberalism-David-Harvey/dp/0199283273 tlrd; Neoliberalism is the belief that the free market is God; an intangible benevolent being which will bless us with its omniscient and omnipotent wisdom if we merely shed its light in every corner of society.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2017 22:51
|
|
|
aside from the belief in globalism and the virtues of market forces, neoliberalism in the US also believes in austerity, gutting social safety nets, expanding the prison population, privatization of prisons, privatization of schools, waging a terrible and oppressive drug war, waging terrible and oppressive foreign wars, overthrowing governments, not prosecuting widespread and fraudulent criminal behavior by large financial institutions, creating a tech panopticon that spies on every citizen, revolving doors being good, and legalized bribery of public officials being good oh and the most important thing to do is to have good decorum
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
Alienwarehouse posted:You should read this book A Brief History of Neoliberalism: https://www.amazon.ca/Brief-History-Neoliberalism-David-Harvey/dp/0199283273 comedyblissoption posted:aside from the belief in globalism and the virtues of market forces, neoliberalism in the US also believes in austerity, gutting social safety nets, expanding the prison population, privatization of prisons, privatization of schools, waging a terrible and oppressive drug war, waging terrible and oppressive foreign wars, overthrowing governments, not prosecuting widespread and fraudulent criminal behavior by large financial institutions, creating a tech panopticon that spies on every citizen, revolving doors being good, and legalized bribery of public officials being good Edit: Aside from decorum, I'm far too midwestern to say that decorum is not good. Azathoth fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Apr 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:This is more-or-less what I think of when I hear "neoliberal", aside from the parts about austerity and social safety net cuts at least. in the West Wing, the neoliberal democrat protagonists try really hard to cut social security. i think they may have succeeded in the show but i won't watch that tripe so i can't confirm.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
note that whenever democrats talk about raising the retirement age for social security or say they are trying to save social security or whatever other bullshit framing they try to use, they are talking about cutting social security. they won't use the words "cut".
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 05:26
|
|
|
*addresses Senate* the nefarious poor set upon us like locusts may we til the earth and grind them flesh and bone into the ground! *applause*
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 05:48
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:If they had replaced "Neoliberalism" with "Libertarianism", it would have ready pretty similar. That legit reads like some specific flavor of libertarianism. Is that book actually a good critical and/or dispassionate look at it, cause I'd be interested in that. If not for some specific life experiences, I could definitely have seen my young adult self buying into that poo poo whole hog. So uh...there but for the grace of God go I... The book is great. It's brief (hence the title), and it provides horrifying evidence which details the systemic dismantling of regulations, welfare, and even the tax code (it was dropped to 28 from 70 overnight) over the last 40 years for the interests of banks and corporations. It also details how this global neoliberal economic order seeks to abolish states around the world that resist it; and how the American military is used to destroy/overthrow them if sanctions, coercion, and all other measures fail.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 07:13
|
|
|
Libertarianism and Neoliberalism are two first cousins who like to gently caress a lot. There's a huge overlap in the practical effect of their ideology; the only real difference is that people become Libertarians because they want to own slaves (possibly of the child/sex slave variety), while people become neoliberals because they are incapable of human empathy and like money.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 07:26
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:welfare reform by clinton in the 90s was a social safety net cut. clinton also tried unsuccessfully to cut medicare/social security. obama also recently tried unsuccessfully to cut medicare/social security with the Grand Bargain. obama successfully cut LIHEAP (heating assistance for poors). I forgot what other austerity obama did. comedyblissoption posted:note that whenever democrats talk about raising the retirement age for social security or say they are trying to save social security or whatever other bullshit framing they try to use, they are talking about cutting social security. they won't use the words "cut".
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 07:30
|
|
|
David Pakman once had a segment about authoritarian leftists and kinda nailed things a while back. Pretty much a lot of  's are actually "left" when it comes to their opinions on political issues, but are kinda driven to become moderates, centrists and conservatives via quite a few shitheads out there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 07:53
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:David Pakman once had a segment about authoritarian leftists and kinda nailed things a while back. "Economic equality was good until some people were mean to me, now I think the poor should starve"
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 08:04
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:David Pakman once had a segment about authoritarian leftists and kinda nailed things a while back. When I think of authoritarian leftists I think of tankies who'd never, ever become any of those things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 09:02
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:David Pakman once had a segment about authoritarian leftists and kinda nailed things a while back. lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 16:13
|
|
|
blending nationalism with socialism gives you national socialists.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 21:21 |
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:welfare reform by clinton in the 90s was a social safety net cut. clinton also tried unsuccessfully to cut medicare/social security. obama also recently tried unsuccessfully to cut medicare/social security with the Grand Bargain. obama successfully cut LIHEAP (heating assistance for poors). I forgot what other austerity obama did. That's fair, but I guess I don't really think of Bubba as "neoliberal" so much as part of that nearly extinct species of conservative Democrat who are now mostly centrist Republicans, but I may be splitting hairs over "willing to do it in a compromise to get something else they want" vs. "has official policy positions that would result in that happening". Maybe I'm missing some low-key signaling from Democrats on this too, I'll have to watch for it. I definitely agree with the rest of what you said though. Jeb! Repetition posted:When I think of authoritarian leftists I think of tankies who'd never, ever become any of those things. It seems like neoliberals are what happens when someone is both authoritarian and leftist but has spent their political career assiduously avoiding accusations of being a COMMUNIST or a SOCIALIST by being pro-laissez faire capitalism.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2017 17:17
|
|