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power crystals posted:Where are you getting the no meteors from? The B/C/M can all hold 4 with two extra MICA EMs. It's even what Rohan was rocking last mission: https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=3230 That wasn't the page I got when I was looking on the wiki, I got this instead https://wiki.baloogancampaign.com/index.php/DataAircraft?ID=2788 I also forgot the last negative to the Rafale: it is expensive as all hell.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:40
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Ikasuhito posted:Can someone explain all the praise the (late) Air admiral is getting? I was watching the stream on my phone so maybe I missed something, but the only plan that looked to be in place was for them to grab anything that could still fly and chuck it at your airfield all at once.It wasn't a bad plan, it just doesn't seem worth noting. If Rohan hadn't gone to block them and if their OECM birds had done their jobs, we wouldn't have seen them turn south and come our way. Instead we'd have seen a massive strike heading north, then a fat lot of nothing until they were almost in range of Lubango and Namibe.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:40
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Ikasuhito posted:Can someone explain all the praise the (late) Air admiral is getting? I was watching the stream on my phone so maybe I missed something, but the only plan that looked to be in place was for them to grab anything that could still fly and chuck it at your airfield all at once.It wasn't a bad plan, it just doesn't seem worth noting. It was a very intelligently put together raid that would have utterly hosed us if Rohan hadn't happened to be going that way.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:43
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Questions We get 10 million per mine, so basically you're betting that the extra toys are worth 1 lithium mine for 2 missions, or 2 lithium mines for one mission. That is a really low RoI so it's a god drat no brainer K&P But tell them to come back with some EWAR platforms god damnit
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Apr 30, 2017 23:43
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Quinntan posted:That wasn't the page I got when I was looking on the wiki, I got this instead Huh, yeah, that's confusing. I just own CMANO and have enough knowledge of databases to ask it things like "what aircraft can mount the most Meteors" (Gripen Es and some Typhoons at 6) which makes disproving that point pretty easy.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:45
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Von Hoff's units need all the help they can get. Authorize the 15M buy.
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Apr 30, 2017 23:46
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Buy Von Hoff some toys
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Apr 30, 2017 23:54
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Quinntan posted:I also forgot the last negative to the Rafale: it is expensive as all hell. Just wondering, what does the three planes (Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen) cost individually?
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Apr 30, 2017 23:54
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Buy some ground assets for Von Hoff. Do we have any intel on the Free State's air defences? The Sandman posted:Prime target right now is any port facilities in the dictator's territory. We smash the docks, he can't get new toys in or lithium out. Edit: PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 1, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 23:57
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I like this Mkebe guy. He sounds like a cool dude. I think he should get the following image rather than some failure of an Air Admiral to represent him: Also, what a time to not have Bacarruda available for operations planning! I think first off, we should invest in the Count's ground forces. That looks like it should give him some much needed tactical mobility. I get we can't tell the Angolans where to use it, but hopefully they can tell us, right? Obviously the Dictator is going to want to smash those assets, and they'll hopefully allow for more substantial gains if we support their breakthroughs. As for this plan? Well, I feel advancing in the East may prove counterproductive. If the Free State is pissed at us, making them have to fight through the Dictator's forces to get to us seems like a good plan. I feel like advancing West might be an issue, so may I instead suggest we advance in the centre? That would help us advance on Huambo (which is the second city of Angola, so taking that would be a feather in the cap of the provisional government), as well as potentially split the Dictator's forces off in the east (like what the Bulgarians were planning for us). That could also potentially let us drive towards the coast, forcing the Bulgarians to either let themselves be surrounded (in which case we can bypass them and advance on the capital) or relocate to block that advance, making them significantly more exposed than they were previously. Plus, it lets us take that very central Kuito airport, which even if we don't use ourselves, will deny it to the enemy. Potentially also Huambo. On the other hand, that would most directly put us up against the Free State - and they're almost certainly going to be bringing ground mercs, now they have a Lithium mine of their very own. Thankfully, they're still cut off from the most direct route to the sea, so they're probably having a hell of a time getting it onto the market (and I'm fairly certain a few of them will be skimming off the top - both product and profits). Edit: I must register my objection to targeting ports. Those are likely going to contain a lot of civilian targets surrounding the area, if not at the ports themselves. What happens if we blow up a Also, thank god for Rohan & Silent Bob. They really did save our asses back there (and probably got one of the most competent people De Santos had killed as a result). Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 00:05 on May 1, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 23:59
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Vando posted:Buy Von Hoff some toys Oh yeah ground forces for Von Hoff
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Apr 30, 2017 23:59
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Koorisch posted:Just wondering, what does the three planes (Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen) cost individually? IRL per unit costs have been around €30-60 mill (so split the difference at €45m) per airframe for Gripen Cs, IRL I'd guess you'd be looking at maybe €55-65m per airframe for Gripen Es, about €75m per airframe for Rafales and €90m per for Typhoons.
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May 1, 2017 00:03
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Definitely think we should point out to the Bulgarians that with the SA-10 gone we can loiter at 20000 feet and bomb them with impunity. They can surrender, they can defect, or they can die. Option B is preferred because with them switching sides we probably take Benguela and Lobito before the dictator can reposition, but Option A is acceptable if their pride won't all9w them to switch sides. Taking Lobito would be a big deal because it looks like it's one of only three real port facilities in Angola (the other two are in Luanda and Cabinda, neither of which are likely to fall until the final stages of the war), so it would make the County of Angola more of a going concern if we had it.
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May 1, 2017 00:10
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Yvonmukluk posted:Edit: I must register my objection to targeting ports. Those are likely going to contain a lot of civilian targets surrounding the area, if not at the ports themselves. What happens if we blow up a True, I didn't consider that.  Scratch that idea then.How about advancing towards Bie instead of Huambo? Bie's a smaller town that should be easier to capture, it has a reasonably central airfield and there are two lithium mines in the area. PenguinSalsa fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 00:09
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power crystals posted:Huh, I assumed that the guys that punched out over water/behind enemy lines would be in trouble. Good to know! Yeah that's why I figured Nails was dead.
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May 1, 2017 00:15
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Yvonmukluk posted:Edit: I must register my objection to targeting ports. Those are likely going to contain a lot of civilian targets surrounding the area, if not at the ports themselves. What happens if we blow up a Is military equipment transiting through the port? If so, it's a legitimate target. If you're worried about civilian casualties, hit it at night when loading/unloading isn't going on. And it's not like us going after enemy shipping would be unprecedented. Also, the only way they'd give a poo poo about freighters is if they had execs on them for some unknown reason. They're shipping in and out of a war zone, those things will be insured.
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May 1, 2017 00:16
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Just realised something that we should keep in mind, we're only going to have at most one tanker airborne, and we are going to be without Erieye coverage for some time too.
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May 1, 2017 00:17
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Questions 1. $5 mil per Kfir, deposited in a Cayman Island account prior to mission launch. 2. They will not allow any flights originating in Angola to traverse their air space. 3. They don't know which base they will be assigned to for the op. 4. A chance at dislodging the Bulgarians and moving up the coast. 5. They have a few minutes to get into the air while waiting for the rest of the strike to launch. They won't flee with other Kfirs in the air as they're afraid they'll get missiled out of the sky. In regards to strike locations, Angola also has oil. Lots of oil. China buys lots of oil. We can hit lithium port facilities, this will definitely hurt the Dictator, but could hurt us as well. An easier target would be a lithium freighter. But remember what happens when lithium hits the water...
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May 1, 2017 00:20
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Yooper posted:
It burns. Fast. Anybody on a lithium-loaded ship that we hit is as dead as if they were on a burning LNG tanker. Are we going to get an "in engine" intel map before we start planning operations? And will we have any option to "forward deploy" elements on the eastern airbases?
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May 1, 2017 00:24
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Fun thing about the Chinese connection: the port the Chinese are currently building in Angola IRL is in Cabinda. As in, Free State territory. I believe that's where most of the oil is too. So while the Chinese do have a dog in this fight, it isn't the dictator. Of course, the Free Staters in their infinite wisdom hired a partially-Japanese PMC to be their air force, so the Chinese probably aren't thrilled with them either. EDIT: Pretty sure the lithium is being shipped out as a salt and purified at the end destination. That's usually how this sort of resource extraction setup works, especially when the final product is volatile. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 00:33 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 00:28
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PenguinSalsa posted:True, I didn't consider that. Oh, another downside to bombing the ports: if we hit a Chinese ship, they might use it a a Gulf of Tonkin moment. Now they probably won't outright invade, but do we really want to give them the extra motivation to gently caress with us? They will likely have world opinion if not behind them, passively accepting further intervention against us. They're already supplying the dictator with toys. Quinntan posted:Just realised something that we should keep in mind, we're only going to have at most one tanker airborne, and we are going to be without Erieye coverage for some time too. Yeah, that might be an issue. Presumbably the Kfirs will be given enough fuel to get from their bases to the target and back, but we don't know where they're meant to hit. We might need a relay to get them to friendly turf. Maybe they should land at Menongue (now fairly safely behind our lines)? If only to refuel there before pushing up to our main base.
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May 1, 2017 00:27
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Have the Kfirs launch with anti-runway ordnance and close the base behind themselves. That should solve some of the "they'll be chased down by their erstwhile buddies" problem. For the ports, what I really want is to keep the dictator from being able to import more new toys to replace the ones we smash. Stopping lithium shipments out is a bonus, but we can do that by interdicting ground transport or just seizing the mines. Also, if the DRC is actually enforcing that ban on combatants moving stuff through their territory, the Free State is in serious trouble; everything they ship in somehow has to get from Cabinda to the front lines without passing through the DRC or being interdicted by the dictator.
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May 1, 2017 00:36
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CirclMastr posted:Yeah that's why I figured Nails was dead. I'm going to continue as a ghost that haunts the UAV she'd. I have made peace.
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May 1, 2017 00:39
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You know, going back to my earlier idea, we might not have to blow up a lithium freighter, those AA launchers can't reach the open ocean and his AA boats won't always be in position, we could try and turn a freighter to one of our ports under threat of missile to bote.
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May 1, 2017 00:40
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Davin Valkri posted:It burns. Fast. Anybody on a lithium-loaded ship that we hit is as dead as if they were on a burning LNG tanker. Yes to both. Both the Free State and the Dictator have oil reserves and transport facilities. Lithium is refined in country to reduce the volume transported. They move such a massive quantity that they can't just send it as a raw, or semi-raw, material. Unfortunately we don't have one of those refineries in our part of the country. So our payout is lower accordingly. Remember, the world tolerates this war, up until the point that they can't get the lithium they need. Hell hath no scorn like Apple iPhones without batteries.
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May 1, 2017 00:42
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Yes to bribe, yes to ground assets Im expecting future consideration from our boss though. This is not free money.
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May 1, 2017 00:47
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Cimbri posted:You know, going back to my earlier idea, we might not have to blow up a lithium freighter, those AA launchers can't reach the open ocean and his AA boats won't always be in position, we could try and turn a freighter to one of our ports under threat of missile to bote. Problem: currently, our port is kind of crap. I suspect we're having to rail/truck a lot of the lithium out via our neighbors thanks to our lack of a proper port facility. I reiterate the importance of taking Lobito for our employers. This means flipping or eliminating the Bulgarians is one of our primary goals for the next mission. Hopefully the part where we can bomb them with impunity now will lead them to see reason. Also, heliborne assault on Kuito. Once that falls, we can use cargo aircraft to start shipping in heavier ground forces and take Huambo. It also would give us a better option for where to have those Kfirs land for rest and refueling before joining our main force at Lubango. Edit: Okay, just saw Yooper's latest post. Immediate new priority: taking a lithium refinery intact. Hopefully there's one near Lobito. The Sandman fucked around with this message at 00:51 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 00:49
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Dumb idea for dealing with the SA-11s: we kite then with a Gripen flying on the edge of its missile range, then use our Saudi Tornadoes to nail them with ALARMs
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May 1, 2017 00:56
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Can we get confirmation that the fighter purchase will be here before we begin?
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May 1, 2017 01:02
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Quinntan posted:Dumb idea for dealing with the SA-11s: we kite then with a Gripen flying on the edge of its missile range, then use our Saudi Tornadoes to nail them with ALARMs We'd have to actually know where they are first, though. Personally I'm thinking we just ignore the current front by Lubango and push up the east towards the Free State's lines, then swing west. Force the Dictator to fight on more fronts. I'm also mildly concerned by the plan to steal the Kfirs because so far there's been no active hostilities between us and the Free State but they sure as hell aren't gonna be happy with us after this. I suppose it has to happen eventually, but it'd be nice if we could keep those two purely angry at each other. e: Yooper posted:We will have the planes in time for the next mission. power crystals fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 01:03
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power crystals posted:We'd have to actually know where they are first, though. We'll know where they are once they launch at the Gripen.
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May 1, 2017 01:04
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Quinntan posted:We'll know where they are once they launch at the Gripen. Yeah, but how do we stay on the edge of their range when we have no idea where that range is?
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May 1, 2017 01:06
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power crystals posted:Yeah, but how do we stay on the edge of their range when we have no idea where that range is? We know how high their missiles can go. The Gripen takes the lead with the Tornadoes following it, at the limits of the missile's flight ceiling. Once the Gripen detects a lock, it climbs until it goes above the missile's flight ceiling. Meanwhile, our Tornadoes launch their ALARMs and egress.
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May 1, 2017 01:08
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power crystals posted:Personally I'm thinking we just ignore the current front by Lubango and push up the east towards the Free State's lines, then swing west. Force the Dictator to fight on more fronts. Do you want MLRS turning Lubango into Menongue Mk. 2? Because that's how you get MLRS turning Lubango into a moonscape. Like it or not that armored push is a very real threat to our home base.
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May 1, 2017 01:10
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power crystals posted:I'm also mildly concerned by the plan to steal the Kfirs because so far there's been no active hostilities between us and the Free State but they sure as hell aren't gonna be happy with us after this. I suppose it has to happen eventually, but it'd be nice if we could keep those two purely angry at each other. The market decided those planes were better with us / trololololol. They'll understand. Davin Valkri posted:Do you want MLRS Yes.
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May 1, 2017 01:18
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To be honest, I'm getting more worried about these SA-11s than the SA-10. At least the SA-10 stayed put with its radar on, letting us muster up a strike specifically to hit it. The SA-11 has optical trackers with a pretty good zoom. Those aren't good for searching for planes, but if they're cued up by one of the search radars that we've been ignoring then they can track and identify our planes. The SA-11s can launch with their search radars off, meaning that we can't launch HARMs on them until they turn their fire control radars on... and they'll only blip those on while their missiles are already in the air. Detecting it is also really tough. Our MQ-9 with Gorgon Hair can detect an SA-11 at about 40 nm, so outside its range. The problem is that it's only a vague "mobile" contact, showing on the map as a big yellow 3 [?]. (The three is because we'd detect that its formation is made out of 3 vehicles). The MQ-9 can't classify the contact as a SAM until it's well within weapons range. The SAM system itself is pretty capable. It has a very high ceiling -- 46,000 feet -- so our old standby of "fly out of range and drop two-ton bombs on it" won't fly. It can also shoot down HARMs and guided bombs, albeit not at the same chance to hit as the SA-10. I think that if we're not exceedingly careful, we're almost guaranteed to start losing planes to these guys. Take a look at the Bulgarian force in the last mission, and see how many of those contacts were just an unclassified "Mobile." Now imagine that one of those will suddenly start launching buttfucker missiles at every plane in a 25 mile range. The plan I've got in mind is to ignore the Bulgarian ground forces for now, and use our temporary air superiority to roam over Central Angola and start blowing up Radars, airfields, and other infrastructure. Edit: We do have 24 hours, so maybe we should be searching for and hitting the SA-11s at night since we have thermals and they don't. Edit#2: Oh, also, our Prowler doesn't seem to be good enough to jam the SA-11's fire control radar. Yooper, what kind of military, C&C, or other infrastructure could we hit? What would Von Hoff want us to take out if we can? Psawhn fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 01:24
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I really don't like using our most expensive, most capable aircraft as SAM bait. We have SK60's for that.
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May 1, 2017 01:24
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Quinntan posted:We know how high their missiles can go. The Gripen takes the lead with the Tornadoes following it, at the limits of the missile's flight ceiling. Once the Gripen detects a lock, it climbs until it goes above the missile's flight ceiling. Meanwhile, our Tornadoes launch their ALARMs and egress. I guess I'm just confused since CMANO does not make it at all easy to find an aircraft's max flight altitude but the SA-11s can apparently target up to 46,000ft so that seems kinda risky. I'll admit I'm probably just missing something. Davin Valkri posted:Do you want MLRS turning Lubango into Menongue Mk. 2? Because that's how you get MLRS turning Lubango into a moonscape. Like it or not that armored push is a very real threat to our home base. Look if I was concerned over friendly lives I wouldn't be manning the drone  e: Psawhn posted:Detecting it is also really tough. Our MQ-9 with Gorgon Hair can detect an SA-11 at about 40 nm, so outside its range. The problem is that it's only a vague "mobile" contact, showing on the map as a big yellow 3 [?]. (The three is because we'd detect that its formation is made out of 3 vehicles). The MQ-9 can't classify the contact as a SAM until it's well within weapons range. Doesn't this also have the issue that they might be hiding somewhere where we can't get LOS at 40nm regardless?
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May 1, 2017 01:27
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Question: is there any reason our Sperwer drones can't do the same tactic of "hover just below missile ceiling, fly up when fired upon?" That seems like the best solution here.
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May 1, 2017 01:29
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Sperwer has a super low ceiling.
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May 1, 2017 01:36
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