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Genghis Cohen posted:
Overwatch is that dangerous as you need sixs to hit with it.
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May 1, 2017 19:11
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Genghis Cohen posted:If, as publicity has claimed for this new edition, lots of feedback has been drawn in from competitive players; if they have genuinely listened to outside opinions on what's wrong with their game and how to improve it; why are they keeping random charges combined with overwatch? Surely most any experienced player would describe these as a huge problem for traditionally 'close combat' armies. I gather that maybe you can run and charge, maybe you move 2D6 even on a fail, maybe casualties are no longer removed from the front of units. All of those changes would redress the balance a bit. But why not take the simplest solution and make the charge phase less of a gift to the shooty-army getting charged and less full of pitfalls for the assaulty-army doing the charging? god willing we can go back to taking casualties from the back like civilized people
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May 1, 2017 19:17
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You guys missed that you no longer need to be in base contact. Instead, you need to be 1” away to make into melee. So your charge distance is more like 2D6 +1”. Also it sounds like you can’t multi charge, but you can multi overwatch. I don't mind this mechanic, but if you can run and charge that's crazy. 30k space wolves could do this and turn 1 charges are a real possibility even with 'slow' foot slogging units.
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May 1, 2017 19:19
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quote:you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch. Huh. That's... different.
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May 1, 2017 19:22
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Since they've brought in the 1" rule from AOS, I wonder if they're also bringing in the 1-3" ranges for melee weapons? We've not seen melee weapon stats yet iirc.
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May 1, 2017 19:30
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Melee seems to be the make or break point. Never was a fan of d6 charges an combined with how melee turn order seems to be looking with no initiative stat shooting just seems to be the better option most cases still.
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May 1, 2017 19:36
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Random charge distance makes me think we're going to stick with random psychic powers.
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May 1, 2017 19:38
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Mango Polo posted:Random charge distance makes me think we're going to stick with random psychic powers. gently caress I hope not. But I mean, before 7th we had random charge distance and we didn't have random psychic powers, so I don't know why those have to go hand in hand.
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May 1, 2017 19:39
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Mango Polo posted:Random charge distance makes me think we're going to stick with random psychic powers. Psychic Powers and Warlord Traits aren't random in AoS, so here's hoping.
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May 1, 2017 19:41
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Should've just snatched the Warmachine model of charges being Movement + Flat value. In warmachine it's Movement +3, which sounds about right. If it absolutely desperately needs to be kept random because Warhammer, I guess Movement +d3 could be a thing.
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May 1, 2017 19:42
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Mango Polo posted:Random charge distance makes me think we're going to stick with random psychic powers. Not really. It's just the same melee system as AoS, which doesn't have random spells. They seem to be picking and choosing as they please so I wouldn't assume this has any weight on any other aspect.
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May 1, 2017 19:42
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It will be fine if there are plenty of ways to make it more reliable that are good. It will be bad if there aren't.
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May 1, 2017 19:44
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Zark the Damned posted:Since they've brought in the 1" rule from AOS, I wonder if they're also bringing in the 1-3" ranges for melee weapons? We've not seen melee weapon stats yet iirc. I hope so. Melee weapon ranges add a lot of depth to unit placement. Your dreadnaught should be able to punch over a line of space marines. Mango Polo posted:Random charge distance makes me think we're going to stick with random psychic powers. They have already said that you can pick or roll, it's your choice, just like in AOS
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May 1, 2017 19:48
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I don't know why anyone would roll a trait rather than pick one with no bonus or anything to it. You could do it for funsies but at the same time why?
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May 1, 2017 19:51
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S.J. posted:It will be fine if there are plenty of ways to make it more reliable that are good. It will be bad if there aren't. Yeah, that Hornblower rule or some equivalent would be fine. I'm sure fast and/or assault units will have ways to mitigate, just as they do now.
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May 1, 2017 19:59
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Shout Waaagh to get +2 to your roll.
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May 1, 2017 20:04
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For_Great_Justice posted:I don't know why anyone would roll a trait rather than pick one with no bonus or anything to it. You could do it for funsies but at the same time why? It's there for people that want to use it Presenting it as an option sets the precedent that it's a valid way of playing the game and makes it easier to accept than a house rule. PierreTheMime posted:Yeah, that Hornblower rule or some equivalent would be fine. I'm sure fast and/or assault units will have ways to mitigate, just as they do now. Here's a quick collection of special rules that units have related to charging in AOS off the top of my head: -Charge 3D6 up to 18" rather than 2D6 up to 12" -You can add +1 to charge rolls -You can add +1 to charge rolls for each enemy unit within 12" -You charge at least 6", unless you roll higher -You can charge in your hero phase -You can charge in the enemy hero phase -You can move 2D6 in the enemy charge phase (counter-charging!) -You can run and charge -You can retreat and charge -You must charge even if you ran or retreated -When you charge you can roll 3 dice and pick the top 2 -You can reroll charge distances -Add 3 to charge rolls if you finish your charge within 1/2" of an enemy HERO or MONSTER So even though the basic rule is "roll 2d6 and charge within 1" of the enemy" there are tons of ways to modify charges. I expect 40k to be similar
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May 1, 2017 20:07
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As long as a failed charge still means moving, I'll be relatively happy with the change. 2d6 charge distance versus 1d6 run distance means charges will be easier to pull off than avoiding charges once you get within charge range in the first place.
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May 1, 2017 20:09
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Pawl posted:Here's a quick collection of special rules that units have related to charging in AOS off the top of my head: Safety Factor posted:Exceptions don't fix a bad system.
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May 1, 2017 20:15
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It's a bad system because I don't like it
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May 1, 2017 20:16
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As someone who runs a charge heavy Nids army random distance doesn't bother me half as much as overwatch. Maybe it's cause most my stuff gets fleet or has access to it, but any army that can improve the normal over watch process is a real pain that normally wreaks my bugs.
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May 1, 2017 20:15
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JesusIsTehCool posted:As someone who runs a charge heavy Nids army random distance doesn't bother me half as much as overwatch. Maybe it's cause most my stuff gets fleet or has access to it, but any army that can improve the normal over watch process is a real pain that normally wreaks my bugs. I don't think it will matter as much as you think. The only time this will affect you in the new edition vs. the old is if you declared a charge with one unit, that unit didn't make it, and then you declared a charge with a second unit, leading to two rounds of overwatch fire. Also, you'd still be able to back out of charging at that point.
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May 1, 2017 20:18
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Get rekt, 2d6 charge is actually thematic and good.
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May 1, 2017 20:22
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Zark the Damned posted:Shout Waaagh to get +2 to your roll. and pretend to ride a mechanical boy
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May 1, 2017 20:22
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Strobe posted:As long as a failed charge still means moving The only thing that matters to me
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May 1, 2017 20:35
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Zasze posted:Could the new marines just be fresh marines directly from the primarchs gene seed rather than 10k year old hand me downs. This is basically what I was thinking. Sort of like when the AdMech made the Steel Mentors and got in trouble. They created this force (which are wearing the MK III and Tartaros gear) before created the new BigMarines as a guard to protect them in their big ol baby vats, and also to go wreck poo poo when the AdMech need something. It makes sense fluff wise, if Rob is letting them make these new spiffy ones, might as well create some more. There's actually this Space Marine Chapter generator that cranks out some pretty funny poo poo. So far my favorite is Doom Cogs. (They're counts-as Iron Hands.)
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May 1, 2017 20:44
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That could be useful for my Deathwatch, I could always use a member of the Regal Barracudas on the team.
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May 1, 2017 20:46
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Pawl posted:It's a bad system because I don't like it 
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May 1, 2017 20:49
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MasterSlowPoke posted:That could be useful for my Deathwatch, I could always use a member of the Regal Barracudas on the team. Make sure you include some from the most glorious of chapters, the Space Wasps.
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May 1, 2017 20:52
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Zuul the Cat posted:Make sure you include some from the most glorious of chapters, the Space Wasps. I refuse to believe that the Blood Cats don't already exist
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May 1, 2017 20:54
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Someone needs to do a Blood Cats chapter and include kitten ears on everything. (then pretend you don't secretly love it.)
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May 1, 2017 20:55
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I'll be disappointed if the Astral Hippos doesn't make it into the next edition.
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May 1, 2017 20:57
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Here's the basic armor color I'm doing for the Doom Cogs. (That dumb name is never going to fail to make me giggle to myself like an idiot.) It's Leadbelcher from the rattle can, then 3 coats of Nuln Oil to get that old, dirty metal look. Next step is a runefang steel highlight. I've already finished up the Tartaros Terminators. I'll post some pics of them tomorrow.
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May 1, 2017 21:02
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MasterSlowPoke posted:That could be useful for my Deathwatch, I could always use a member of the Regal Barracudas on the team. Does joining the chapter require crossing a massive river, descending the steps of knowledge, and assembling the Shrine of the Silver Monkey?
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May 1, 2017 21:03
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You can not like something and also not have bad taste. Just because gw isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean you have bad taste holy poo poo.
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May 1, 2017 21:06
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BuffaloChicken posted:Your podcast rules and I always try to save it for the miserable, tedious drives to/from Jersey City. Makes it so much more pleasant. I'm there. No question. I hope you and your friends like blowing up tanks.
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May 1, 2017 21:16
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Zuul the Cat posted:This is basically what I was thinking. Sort of like when the AdMech made the Steel Mentors and got in trouble. They created this force (which are wearing the MK III and Tartaros gear) before created the new BigMarines as a guard to protect them in their big ol baby vats, and also to go wreck poo poo when the AdMech need something. It makes sense fluff wise, if Rob is letting them make these new spiffy ones, might as well create some more. Battle Hippos! Due to a flaw in their gene seed, they're all overweight.
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May 1, 2017 21:23
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm there. No question. I hope you and your friends like blowing up tanks. we do!
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May 1, 2017 21:28
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm there. No question. I hope you and your friends like blowing up tanks. I'll make sure we get in touch through SRM! EDIT also it's a shame you don't use Facebook because the event is called "8th Edition Pyrovore Welcome Party" with a big veiny pink Pyrovore picture and a bunch of dick references. BuffaloChicken fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 21:37
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 21:52 |
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Zuul the Cat posted:This is basically what I was thinking. Sort of like when the AdMech made the Steel Mentors and got in trouble. They created this force (which are wearing the MK III and Tartaros gear) before created the new BigMarines as a guard to protect them in their big ol baby vats, and also to go wreck poo poo when the AdMech need something. It makes sense fluff wise, if Rob is letting them make these new spiffy ones, might as well create some more. Great, now I have to keep clicking until I get the Thunder Cats. Regal Eagles is the best I have. I also got the Red Corsairs, sounds like a good loyalist legion name for loyalists.
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May 1, 2017 21:39
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