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The other benefits to cutting the races short is you could bring in Sunday night racing. If its a 2.5 3 hour race which they would be, drop the green at 7p eastern and its over by 10 - 10:30 which is still earlier than Sunday night football. That helps address an issue brought up by someone about Richmond. It was over 90 loving degrees. Now you aren't fighting with Saturday night short tracks or college football in the south. Your only real competition is what ever poo poo primetime game the NFL scheduled. Packers v Jags isn't compelling tv and thats what they would be up against.
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May 2, 2017 18:12
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Incoming hot takes from yours truly: Nuke the chase/playoffs/whatever. The classic point system is what got them into the glory days, not some convoluted bullshit. Cut down on Busch Whacking. Limit drivers in NXS and MECS to 5 crossovers between the two series. If it's a track that only that series does (such as NXS only doing RA), it does not count towards these 5. Daytona 500 also doesn't count towards this limit. Crossover to Trucks is fine because we're talking two completely different type of cars here. Keep on promoting the 500 as your big race, and allow open qualifying for it because of it's nature (taking a page from Indy here). Stages are... good? They're not terrible, because they do accomplish something that was needed: a way to make the middle of the race interesting. Just make it so the two early stages are a quarter of the total points, and the last half. Rewards consistent driving over a race as well. Race length is a problem. Cut down on some of the three hour races down to two. The most historic races can maintain the length. Cut down on repeat tracks and return to some of the more historic tracks that have been ignored. Add another road course. Use NXS to judge potential fan reaction to a race there. If a race is successful, consider bringing the big show along as well. Cut back ticket prices, or try to anyway. The charter system was good intentions that failed. Having massive teams is not healthy, and I understand that. It needs some work. Limit the number of paint scheme changes per year per car. Say 3, maybe 4 different ones (regular, Daytona 500, Darlington throwback, and a special one off for a specific race). Above all else: stop chasing casual fans and shore up your existing fanbase. It's easy to grab attention, but to hold it after that is the tricky part. You're falling at the latter, NASCAR.
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May 2, 2017 18:23
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Genocide Tendency posted:Get rid of the truck series. Truck series: It's great. 1 point per position: Of all the changes they've made the last few decades, I hate this the most. NASCAR: a system of multiple types of points classes and elimination rounds are fine but graduated points has been deemed confusing. 
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May 2, 2017 18:24
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mactheknife posted:Yeah, I'd keep the plate tracks and I guess the Coke 600 long - maybe Bristol too? The only reason I still watch the NFL is Red Zone. Without that the games are unbearable. Too many stoppages, too many ads. NASCAR has the same problem.
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May 2, 2017 18:34
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The points scaling is a god drat disaster
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May 2, 2017 18:38
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The problem with ads is it's a universal plague here in the US. TV shows have gotten shorter and shorter as networks sell more ad space. The problem with racing is they don't have logical breaks in the action for ads like other sports (except association football), except drag racing, but that's a very hard type to broadcast live anyway. I mean yeah, cautions/FCY/SC is probably the best time to do it, but if you don't show ads, the sponsors get bitchy. And if the sponsors get bitchy, they threaten to pull out. Given almost every company these days are solely there to turn a profit, guess what they choose. iospace fucked around with this message at 18:43 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 18:41
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iospace posted:The problem with ads is it's a universal plague here in the US. TV shows have gotten shorter and shorter as networks sell more ad space. Yeah but with TV we virtually all have ways to watch it without ads, either with a DVR or like Hulu. You could do this with sports, but most people don't like time-shifting live sports, and you still miss some of the action. Goes back to what I was saying in the IndyCar thread about giving me a way to pay for it and watch it commercial free on whatever device I want, but that means these companies accepting that the wild amounts of money they used to make isn't coming back. It's about them accepting a little long-term pain (in the form of less TV rights money) in exchange for building/rebuilding an audience.
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May 2, 2017 18:53
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Chase: Kill it Points: More points per position for top 5 and top 10 like it used to be, maybe 5 points per position for 1-5, 3 points for 6-10, 2 points for 11-20 and 1 for 21-30, gently caress below 30th. For races, maybe more like 100 miles for trucks, 200 for 2nd tier, 300 for cup, with exceptions for Daytona, Charlotte, keep Bristol/Martinsville 500 laps. Stages are good, also makes the bonus points mean something (obviously killing the chase removes the bonus bonus points for winning) More short tracks. Short tracks own. Super hot take: Kill Indy, go to IRP instead. Add another road course, or replace Sonoma, the tracks the trucks and 2nd tier go to are better than it. Just in general, unfuck the schedule. Too lazy to check, but isn't it like 20 of the races are 1.5 cookie cutters? To address some of the other points Remove trucks? Remove yourself from this thread. Reduce the stands? Why? This only makes cost of attending MORE expensive. Remove official sponsors. This would be better long term for NASCAR, but would be disastrous short term, should happen, won't until they go bankrupt.
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May 2, 2017 19:06
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If you kill a series, kill NXS. Offer some sort of displacement incentive for at least some of those teams to move to Trucks or Cup. Cut the length of all races except plate races, short tracks, and any track which has one date. (If we're going to run Atlanta once, at least give them their 500 miles). Give us fewer companion races- NXS and Trucks need to run more short tracks like it was in the late '90s. Don't bullshit me about "We can't sell seats for those races!" because you're not selling NXS seats as it is. You could probably get more people to go to Myrtle Beach on a Summer Saturday night for an NXS race than you would at Texas. Eldora draws a nice crowd for Trucks and it's on a Wednesday night (and starts later this year because apparently nobody going to that race has to go to work the next day  ).Genocide Tendency posted:In theory the financial goal needs to be getting costs down for teams so they can go back to 1 primary sponsor for the entire season. Trying to guess what loving color car your driver is in this week is annoying. I use to be able to turn on the tv and look for the black 3 with Goodwrench written on it. It use to be a big rear end deal when a sponsor changed or paint scheme was switched. Now you need a loving livery guide for every god drat race. Also cutting costs would likely allow for full fields. Lets not point fingers at charters being a problem when we aren't even running full fields. I agree with the "go back to one or two paint schemes" notion, but it'll never happen because probably somebody in NASCAR realizes that's more diecasts to sell. NASCAR had full fields until the Charter system came along.
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May 2, 2017 19:08
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Slickdrac posted:Super hot take: Kill Indy, go to IRP instead. Is this really a hot take? I'm from Indy and most fans I know hate NASCAR at the Speedway and would love this.
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May 2, 2017 19:12
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Fauxhawk Express posted:Is this really a hot take? I'm from Indy and most fans I know hate NASCAR at the Speedway and would love this. Pretty sure if you had any media credentials, they'd be removed and you'd be barred from future passes if you attempted to suggest that and NASCAR got wind of it.
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May 2, 2017 19:43
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The stage racing system is a half-solution to the main problem of most of the races being too drat long. NASCAR should consider doing what (V8) Supercars does in Australia. Take the races and break them up into two or three races throughout the weekend, and/or immediate back-to-back races on the same day. If you have NXS and Cup at Atlanta, for example, you can do NXS Race #1 for 200 miles Saturday morning, qualify Cup immediately after, then go right into NXS Race #2 for 200 miles Saturday afternoon, then have Cup Race #1 in a 100 mile Saturday night "feature race." On Sunday afternoon you have the "main event," with Cup Race #2 for 200 miles, a bonafide "halftime break" of 30-45 minutes for TV and car adjustments, and then Cup Race #3 for the last 200 miles, which would determine the overall winner of the "Atlanta 500." Each race would get full race points toward the season championship, no playoffs needed. Races at Daytona, Talledega, Charlotte, Bristol, and other historically big tracks can keep one of their races at full distance. So you'll have the Daytona 500 but the summer race will be 400 miles over 3 balls-to-the-wall races. The Coke 600 will remain NASCAR's "endurance" race, but the 500 miler at Charlotte can have the two longest "short" races on the calendar. And so on.\ This needs to happen in the next few years. Society's attention spans aren't long enough for a typical NASCAR race, but I think doing things this way will give viewers more entrance and exit points to follow the series and give fans attending the races (literally) non-stop on-track action.
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May 2, 2017 19:44
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either one of trucks or nationwide should be cut, i think. I'd cut Nationwide because it may be the worst racing series on the planet.
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May 2, 2017 20:31
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I don't like cutting race lengths because it seems to be trying to fix the symptoms (the racing post-COT is very boring, so make the races shorter) rather than the cause (the cars don't provide good racing, though the latest Gen6 improvements have helped)
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May 2, 2017 20:32
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Honestly, I think Xfinity can be saved, but the problem is the crossover from the main series. While forcing people to only get points for one series, Busch Whacking is strangling the series. End Busch Whacking before we say kill the series.
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May 2, 2017 20:32
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The loss of shitloads of the small Busch-only teams killed the series, which may have been a result of buschwhacking. I don't know how to fix that, though, other than drastically reducing the cost it takes to run competitively in Xfinity.
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May 2, 2017 20:38
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mactheknife posted:Yeah, I'd keep the plate tracks and I guess the Coke 600 long - maybe Bristol too? Bristol's races are only 250 miles long
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May 2, 2017 20:59
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Peanut President posted:Bristol's races are only 250 miles long 266½ miles long 
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May 2, 2017 21:03
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WindyMan posted:266½ miles long I'm gonna kick your rear end 266 and one half times, fucker
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May 2, 2017 21:13
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don't kill any series but make Xfinity turbocharged 4 cylinders with a shorter wheelbase and narrower track, move the pony car bodies to Cup and leave them V8's, and don't touch the Trucks
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May 2, 2017 21:37
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WindyMan posted:The stage racing system is a half-solution to the main problem of most of the races being too drat long. NASCAR should consider doing what (V8) Supercars does in Australia. Take the races and break them up into two or three races throughout the weekend, and/or immediate back-to-back races on the same day. I guess I can't see "Watch one race, go do something, then come back for another later" working. It turns a three-hour experience into an all-day ordeal. Feels Villeneuve posted:The loss of shitloads of the small Busch-only teams killed the series, which may have been a result of buschwhacking. I don't know how to fix that, though, other than drastically reducing the cost it takes to run competitively in Xfinity. It was Buschwacking in part because why should Monster spend money on Ricky Carmichael's attempt at a NASCAR career when they could get a steep discount on sponsoring Kyle Busch in NXS? At this point, I think our best hope for NXS are competitive Cup teams fielding cars for Cup washouts (Sadler, Gaughan, Allgaier, Regan Smith) and up-and-coming drivers and getting Cup guys out of the series once and for all.
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May 2, 2017 21:48
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kidcoelacanth posted:nascar is very quickly coming to a crossroads where if they don't look inwards and make wholesale changes to how they run their poo poo, this sport is completely hosed. it's an increasingly grim conversation. more than ever i'm worried that they've buried their heads in their own bullshit too far to pull back out at this point. as someone who's pretty much dedicated my life to this godforsaken traveling circus, both in my own time and in my career, it's utterly maddening that no one who has the power to fix things seems to give a poo poo. I'm with kidc. To me, NASCAR's devolution is like someone took a crap in the middle of a room, but the homeowner won't clean it up. They seem to notice the smell, but the response is always "Let's move the furniture" or "Let's repaint the walls" or "Let's knock down this wall and put in a dance floor." Now it's not just a matter of fixing the original problem, there's a whole lot of other stuff that needs to be un-done. And some of those things are irretrievably broken. A tortured metaphor to be sure, but come on, only NASCAR could look at the response to Eldora and say "A second race in Las Vegas? Sure!" Edit: holy crap two pages of posts LASTCAR fucked around with this message at 22:10 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 22:06
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There is no saving NASCAR. There are too many entrenched interests that will block any meaningful change. Instead, they should invest in a lot of new series and see what sticks. (GRC for exampled)
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May 3, 2017 02:16
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keevo posted:NASCAR just needs Vince McMahon. Funny you should mention that. http://www.racer.com/nascar/item/140125-rir-taps-wwe-marketer-for-promotional-campaign RACER.com posted:Richmond International Raceway was in need of an advocate. Paul Heyman happens to make a living being such an individual.
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May 3, 2017 02:25
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eagerly awaiting the dumpster at the track gate where people can put road signs they stole and the drivers use later to hit each other with while this blasts on the track PA
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May 3, 2017 02:48
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daslog posted:There is no saving NASCAR. There are too many entrenched interests that will block any meaningful change. I'm not so quick to write them off personally, given everyone thought AOWR was dead after The Split. It's still kicking. A shadow of it's former self maybe, but it's good, the racing is good, and people are having fun.
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May 3, 2017 02:59
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Does NASCAR/ISC still have a stake in IMSA from the Rolex days? I know they got ownership of Road Atlanta in the ALMS/Rolex merger. I find it hard to believe (or maybe just unfathomable) that this will completely come to an end, but they need to get one of their ideas right fast. Tyler posted:Funny you should mention that. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...MY NAME IS PAUL HEYMAN, AND I AM THE ADVOCATE, FOR THE GREATEST RACE DRIVER OF ALL TIME.... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALE EARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRNHARRRRRRRRRRRRRDT, JUNIOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRR. MY CLIENT...HAS ONE LAST CHANCE, AT A TITLE. AND, TO ACHIEVE IT, HE WILL BE TAKING ON REIGNING CHAMPION JIMMIE JOHNSON (slight boos), NUMBER ONE CONTENDERS KYLE "ROWDY" BUSCH (boos), AND JO-EY...LO-GANO (boos). BUT, REST ASSURED, AT THE END OF THE DAY, HE WILL TAKE THE COMPETITION...TO JUNYER CITY.
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May 3, 2017 04:37
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I think so? Both NASCAR and IMSA have links to each other on their sites way on the bottom, and Jim France (same family as NASCAR) is the chair. On that note, I think part of why IMSA has been thriving instead of wasting away is because DPi is a fantastic way to get factories involved without spending the loads of cash that a LMP1-H needs. They also never had the following NASCAR has so they know they're a niche racing type, so there's no need to go full on ham-fisting gimmicks into it.  I also miss the days of #24 having the rainbow scheme, but that's a different matter.
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May 3, 2017 05:58
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IMSA is owned outright by NASCAR.
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May 3, 2017 07:55
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Cygni posted:IMSA is owned outright by NASCAR. It's scary how well run IMSA is compared to NASCAR. Then again, as I just said a post above yours, one is a niche type of racing (though I don't get why more people don't want to watch the classic slugfest of Corvette vs Ford GT vs Ferrari vs Porsche), so there's no need to try to recapture the lightning it once had, which is exactly what NASCAR is doing. I think they correlate the fact that ratings still went up after they implemented the chase as a sign it was a good thing. The problem is, no other series does point gimmicks that extreme. Both major open wheel series have, or still do in Indy's case, done double points for the last race (and the 500 for Indy for the obvious reasons). Beyond that, I can't think of anything even remotely close to the chase/playoffs/this loving thing in racing.
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May 3, 2017 14:38
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British Superbikes do a chase for the title.
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May 3, 2017 14:44
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NHRA does an elimination style championship but it fits a bit better with the sport since every weekend is an elimination race. The name The Countdown is dumb af though.
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May 3, 2017 14:49
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algebra testes posted:British Superbikes do a chase for the title. big nipples big life posted:NHRA does an elimination style championship but it fits a bit better with the sport since every weekend is an elimination race. The name The Countdown is dumb af though. Ah, thanks for letting me know! And yeah, it does fit for NHRA just by the nature of the normal weekends. Then again, NHRA is a bit of a niche sport too, which is probably why that flew under my radar.
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May 3, 2017 15:12
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To be fair to the NHRA, more people participate in drag racing than any other form of motorsport in the country.
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May 3, 2017 15:13
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algebra testes posted:British Superbikes do a chase for the title. They started doing that after Nascar right? Iirc, there's is a straight "x number of races" chase rather than the elimination clusterfuck and they seem to make it work. I still have the view you can't have playoffs in a competition where the eliminated competitors are still there and can still affect events. It'd be like a Denver-Seattle superbowl but we've got 3 players from the 49ers on the pitch and offered money for field goals if they can steal the ball and make one, it just doesn't make sense as a concept.
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May 3, 2017 15:16
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WEC does I think double points for Le Mans, I think Blancpain GT does quad points for the 24 hours of Spa with full normal race points awarded at 6 and 12 hours and double points at the finish.
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May 3, 2017 15:23
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VikingSkull posted:To be fair to the NHRA, more people participate in drag racing than any other form of motorsport in the country. You can drag race any car! (Except a new dodge demon because it is unsafe).
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May 3, 2017 17:05
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I had deep suspicions on IMSA being owned by the Frances, mainly because of how effectively they killed AMA, but then again, Grand-Am always generally seemed like a well-run series.
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May 3, 2017 17:16
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Elephanthead posted:You can drag race any car! (Except a new dodge demon because it is unsafe). any car that is faster than 10.99 IIRC is banned 
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May 3, 2017 18:47
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Tyler posted:Funny you should mention that. Paul Heyman is a horrible businessman.
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May 3, 2017 19:19
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