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Having had some irl experience with what happened this update, when I reached this point in the game I was stunned. I could not and still can not remember a game making me feel this emotionally connected to what was going on as at this point I had come to loathe the bastard enought that I would have been perfectly all right with Joker just carving in his loving skull.
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May 1, 2017 23:34
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Hang around on the 1st floor of the school and Kamoshida will show up, remind you that you're getting expelled and of course, that you're trash. The best part is that you can constantly imply that something is gonna happen which makes Kamoshida even angrier. Anyway, since Kamoshida insists trash doesn't belong in Shujin Academy, let's toss him in the toxic waste container and make the world a better place! It's do or die.
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May 2, 2017 00:14
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GoneRampant posted:For anyone who seriously wants to claim 'this game has a bad localisation,' I'd direct them to this scene. Kamoshida's scumbaggery is just done so masterfully here; he's legitimately detestable, both in and out of character. In fact, he's a little too good- this may be a spoiler, but none of the villains really hit as many highs as Kamoshida. Most of the folks complaining about the localization do it professionally or quasiprofessionally, from what I can tell.
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May 2, 2017 02:21
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Aerdan posted:Most of the folks complaining about the localization do it professionally or quasiprofessionally, from what I can tell. No, most of the people complaining about it are random people reblogging a few people who are professional translators with comments like "a professional translator thinks the localization is bad!" because they refuse to think for themselves. Given that the entire point of localization is to create a product that reads smoothly to an average person from another culture, this isn't something that it takes specialized knowledge to judge. If anything, professionals are overly sensitive to it because that extra sensitivity helps them do their job. I say this as a quasiprofessional who hangs out with professionals who think it's fine, more or less. Could certainly have been improved with another editing pass or two, but given the huge volume of text in the game I can understand that they probably didn't have time to do that. The game was already delayed as it is.
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May 2, 2017 02:34
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I hope Mishima becomes one of our confidants. He seems like a pretty good fit for the Hanged Man arcana, and the designers already went through all the effort to give him different clothes from generic students.
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May 2, 2017 02:46
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Clarste posted:I say this as a quasiprofessional who hangs out with professionals who think it's fine, more or less. Could certainly have been improved with another editing pass or two, but given the huge volume of text in the game I can understand that they probably didn't have time to do that. The game was already delayed as it is. I am a also a quasiprofessional who occasionally hangs out with professionals. I played the entire game in Japanese when it came out last year (and read all the text too!). Is this translation readable? Sure. Is it good? I wouldn't say so. It has good parts -- Ryuji is consistently great, for example, as is - as has been pointed out - most of Kamoshida's dialogue in this update. But taken as a whole the Japanese prose is consistently so much better that it sometimes hurts me to read what they turned it into. You wouldn't know this without comparing both, of course. Even if we take all the actual translation errors and the lines that were obviously written by a (likely Japanese) non-native English speaker that should have been found in editing (some of them are right there in the first five minutes of the game!), we're left with an average approximation of the original, and average shouldn't be good enough.
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May 2, 2017 02:51
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Rawkking posted:I hope Mishima becomes one of our confidants. He seems like a pretty good fit for the Hanged Man arcana, and the designers already went through all the effort to give him different clothes from generic students. He's just wearing the high necked uniform shirt without the blazer like Shiho was, right? It's not exactly a separate fashion statement like Ryuji's yellow logo t-shirt underneath his unbuttoned blazer or Ann's hoodie looking thing, or the stuff that separated your party members' uniforms from those of generic students in Personas 3 and 4, but I can see why it makes him easier to pick out of a student crowd. Enough for a Social Link (I'm sorry, confidant)? Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised.
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May 2, 2017 02:54
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I mean there are certainly mistakes and stuff that just doesn't read well at all in there. But I wouldn't call the localization bad by any means. People who say it's outright garbage are being hyperbolic, because Persona 5 has nothing on localisations of older games, which did tend to fall into unreadably bad. It just falls into mediocrity, which is a bit unfortunate.
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May 2, 2017 02:53
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I my opinion, it's a decent enough translation made better by PHENOMENAL voice direction.
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May 2, 2017 03:01
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That's also true, the voice acting does its best to sell even some of the more awkward lines.
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May 2, 2017 03:02
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orenronen posted:I am a also a quasiprofessional who occasionally hangs out with professionals. I played the entire game in Japanese when it came out last year (and read all the text too!). Is this translation readable? Sure. Is it good? I wouldn't say so. It has good parts -- Ryuji is consistently great, for example, as is - as has been pointed out - most of Kamoshida's dialogue in this update. But taken as a whole the Japanese prose is consistently so much better that it sometimes hurts me to read what they turned it into. You wouldn't know this without comparing both, of course. If you felt like putting effort into it, I'd be really interested in like post-update recaps of where you think the translation falls short.
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May 2, 2017 03:05
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I don't hang out with any translators, professional or otherwise, but I have seen a lot of Yakuza 0. The Persona 5 translation is definitely competent, but it's still kind of awkward in places. There's a lot of times where you see a sentence and go "ok that is a technically a legitimate English sentence, but no one would ever actually express themselves that way in this situation". Yakuza 0 is the opposite, where it's clear that the translators weren't shy about rewriting sentences wholesale to make them more natural sounding. If I hadn't seen the Yakuza translation then I wouldn't have consciously noticed any flaws in P5, but when you compare the two there's a definite contrast.
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May 2, 2017 03:08
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I'm a native English speaker, and I was too busy enjoying the hell out of the game to notice or care about any of the stuff people have been complaining about when it comes to the English script.
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May 2, 2017 03:09
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orenronen posted:and the lines that were obviously written by a (likely Japanese) non-native English speaker that should have been found in editing (some of them are right there in the first five minutes of the game!) I personally took that to be "translation-ese", where you intentionally leave a sentence in an awkwardly literal place so that a future editor knows exactly what they have to work with. If you make major changes to have it flow naturally at too early a step in the process, you risk having the line be "translated" through multiple different people's interpretations and end up losing some of the original nuance. It's not a fundamentally bad process, it just didn't work out all the time. Clarste fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 03:30
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frajaq posted:Uhhh drat this poo poo is getting dark fast huh Here's P5's mantra. "It always gets darker". And best of all? It's all portrayed VERY maturely.
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May 2, 2017 03:29
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Dr. Fetus posted:I mean there are certainly mistakes and stuff that just doesn't read well at all in there. But I wouldn't call the localization bad by any means. People who say it's outright garbage are being hyperbolic, because Persona 5 has nothing on localisations of older games, which did tend to fall into unreadably bad. It just falls into mediocrity, which is a bit unfortunate. I feel like there are two types of complainants on this; people who complain about things like "how blatantly Japanese" the game is who are probably experiencing it as their first Persona game and would prefer Apollo to have his Hamburgers, and don't realise that's part of the charm for a lot of fans (or they just enjoy making GBS threads on Japanese things for god knows what reason), and the people who nitpick a couple lines of overlooked errors in a game that was delayed a lot, and that would be like the length of Lord of the Rings if you wrote it out. Neither of them are particularly wrong, but both are somewhat missing the point. W.T. Fits posted:I'm a native English speaker, and I was too busy enjoying the hell out of the game to notice or care about any of the stuff people have been complaining about when it comes to the English script. Yeah apparently I just skip over most of it like the trick where you rearrange the letters in the middle of a word and it remains legible as long as the first and last are the same, because I didn't notice anything at all.
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May 2, 2017 03:36
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Cicadalek posted:I don't hang out with any translators, professional or otherwise, but I have seen a lot of Yakuza 0. The Persona 5 translation is definitely competent, but it's still kind of awkward in places. There's a lot of times where you see a sentence and go "ok that is a technically a legitimate English sentence, but no one would ever actually express themselves that way in this situation". Yeah - Yakuza 0 and Nier are two recent examples of what a good translation looks like. It's not that I don't have criticism about either at all (in fact, I do), but the general quality is simply higher than P5's. And as I said, P5's translation isn't horrendous. It's simply stiff and full of bad phrasing and word choices. It's really easy to ignore because it doesn't stand out as much as "all your base" or whatever, but it doesn't mean we don't deserve a better effort - I think the end product loses something and in this particular case - because the game itself is really good even when not taking the prose into account - it's hard to tell if you haven't been playing the original as well.
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May 2, 2017 03:46
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Like a recent example was when Kamoshida says "You desire to be killed that much? Fine." It's a bit stiff, but the voice direction in this game eases it a lot because the menace of the character legitimizes the phrasing. Sometimes the stiffness even works in its favor with characters meandering in a way that for me was believable. I never really at any point was really taken out of it until examples were pointed out to me, but I can at least recognize that it could have used the pass.
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May 2, 2017 04:04
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Well, the thing about voice acting in particular is that you need to the script to be finalized well before the game is actually shipped, because you need to send that script to the recording studio. I wouldn't be surprised if, later in development, they'd realized the problem with some of the lines but couldn't afford to do anything about it with the lines already recorded.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 05:48 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 05:05
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I had noticed some of the oddly stilted phrasing, yeah. Seemed weird but not weird enough to comment. That said, it does seem a little sad given P4's localization read as naturally and fluidly as something that contained that many instances of the word 'senpai' could read.
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May 2, 2017 05:45
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vdate posted:given P4's localization read as naturally and fluidly as something that contained that many instances of the word 'senpai' could read. 
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May 2, 2017 06:38
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My two cents is that some of the most awkward lines are front-loaded("It means they’re holding nothing back and are serious to kill us!" is probably the worst it gets), and the translation gets smoother as you get further along in the game(with some standout parts I'll hopefully remember to point out when we get there). Unfortunately that also means a lot of first impressions came from those awkward translation moments. The translation argument probably wouldn't be a thing in the first place if the intro's localization was rock-solid, even if there was some weirdness later in the game. Or maybe I just got used to it and stopped noticing the occasional odd phrasing. 
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May 2, 2017 08:16
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Kemix posted:Here's P5's mantra. "It always gets darker". And best of all? It's all portrayed VERY maturely. I am now worried for my goofy, sleepy cat friend.
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May 2, 2017 08:37
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Kemix posted:Here's P5's mantra. "It always gets darker". And best of all? It's all portrayed VERY maturely. these are both entirely false statements
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May 2, 2017 08:46
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Hunt11 posted:This intro is very good at doing one thing. Making you want to strap Kamoshida to the back of a car and drive until there is nothing left of the bastard. Danganronpa had the same "issue" for me. The first case does a wonderful job of getting you invested and seeing what you're up against and no other case in the game managed to top it IMO. GhostStalker posted:He's just wearing the high necked uniform shirt without the blazer like Shiho was, right? I feel like a lot of social link/confidants get more distinguishable appearances if not in their outfit choice than in the fact that they have a face. I remember multiple students being sl's and the teacher "Maya" from Persona 3. Given how much focus the teacher for the class in Persona 5 (Ms. Kawakami?) and the bruised up student get it's a safe bet that either or both will become Confidants in the future.
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May 2, 2017 10:11
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I didn't notice any of the awkwardness that people are referring to in the translation. I'm sure it's there, but I followed this game's development for two years. When I start playing I think my brain just sort of drifts past them on a tide of endorphins. (I'm on May 9th, for what it's worth.) One thing that helps, something that doesn't necessarily come through in screenshots, is just how smoothly the game plays. Once you have a full party and few more tricks in your bag, infiltrating a palace is a joy in its own right. Explore-stealth-ambush-battle-weakness-victory-explore... You just flow from one step to another. I loved Persona 3 & 4 too, but at least when it comes to the dungeons themselves Persona 5 is the best by far.
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May 2, 2017 21:24
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Special shoutout in that scene goes to the kids who, discovering that one of their classmates tried to commit suicide, decided to pull out their phones and take pictures. It's the little things that really make you dislike the faceless NPCs that populate this world.
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May 2, 2017 21:26
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Blastinus posted:Special shoutout in that scene goes to the kids who, discovering that one of their classmates tried to commit suicide, decided to pull out their phones and take pictures. It's the little things that really make you dislike the faceless NPCs that populate this world. Sadly that is all too realistic.
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May 2, 2017 21:30
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Blastinus posted:Special shoutout in that scene goes to the kids who, discovering that one of their classmates tried to commit suicide, decided to pull out their phones and take pictures. It's the little things that really make you dislike the faceless NPCs that populate this world. It's also possible that they could be sending that information to friends and/or family in different schools. Anyway, wow is this game more immediately interesting than 3 and 4. Without even making the dungeon the part that you're most excited about.
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May 2, 2017 21:37
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Blastinus posted:Special shoutout in that scene goes to the kids who, discovering that one of their classmates tried to commit suicide, decided to pull out their phones and take pictures. It's the little things that really make you dislike the faceless NPCs that populate this world.
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May 2, 2017 21:51
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I mean poo poo worldstar would probably pay a pretty penny for that footage
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May 2, 2017 22:23
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Rangpur posted:the world today just nuts TMZ and Periscope and World Star
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May 2, 2017 22:37
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Blastinus posted:Special shoutout in that scene goes to the kids who, discovering that one of their classmates tried to commit suicide, decided to pull out their phones and take pictures. It's the little things that really make you dislike the faceless NPCs that populate this world. I am frankly shocked nobody took a selfie.
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May 2, 2017 22:51
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I will say I am surprised that Arist did not pick the 'gently caress yes let's do this' options with Ryuji after talking with Ann. Kamoshida was skeevy enough beforehand; I can't help but feel that that little revelation should have been enough to tip Joker over the edge. I suppose he's already been burned on the 'good deed' front?
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May 3, 2017 01:33
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I'm starting to think Kamoshida isn't all that nice
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May 3, 2017 01:44
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vdate posted:I will say I am surprised that Arist did not pick the 'gently caress yes let's do this' options with Ryuji after talking with Ann. Kamoshida was skeevy enough beforehand; I can't help but feel that that little revelation should have been enough to tip Joker over the edge. I suppose he's already been burned on the 'good deed' front? Alls I know is, I certainly couldn't hit the "He deserves it" button hard enough after the powwow with Ann ( would have used a jackhammer if any harder). But I suppose I can see where Arist is going here; killing somebody (or potentially turning them into a vegetable forever) might weigh on his conscience, especially if his new label by society as a neer-do-well might drive him to never, ever do a bad deed again out of spite.
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May 3, 2017 01:56
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Really Pants posted:I'm starting to think Kamoshida isn't all that nice Just a titch. Irrespective, at this point he presents enough of a threat to our heroes that hollowing him out is less 'a risk we have to take' and more 'heads we win, tails he loses'.
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May 3, 2017 02:28
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Really Pants posted:I'm starting to think Kamoshida isn't all that nice *Norm MacDonald voice* Y'know, the more I learn about that Kamoshida guy, the more I don't care for him.
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May 3, 2017 02:37
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Really Pants posted:I'm starting to think Kamoshida isn't all that nice He does seem to be a bit of a naughty boy, yeah.
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May 3, 2017 03:00
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He seems an unpleasant fellow.
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May 3, 2017 03:02
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