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jadebullet posted:Ork players already do this so of course they would take away an Ork special ability and give it to the Marines... again. Yeah but on the plus side, Marines and everyone else are getting Mob Rule, so they get to experience the zany Ork antics of losing models because you lost too many models.
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May 3, 2017 17:28
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chutche2 posted:The starter box is using MSU so I doubt it If Bigmarines are 2w then something tells me they aren't going to be squads of 10.
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May 3, 2017 17:29
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Units in AoS get bonuses for not running MSU so actually a larger blob of Orks may gain say, an additional attack per model if there are 20 models in the unit, making running larger units actually quite effective.
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May 3, 2017 17:30
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Fuegan posted:Units in AoS get bonuses for not running MSU so actually a larger blob of Orks may gain say, an additional attack per model if there are 20 models in the unit, making running larger units actually quite effective. If they balance out the disadvantages of taking full units with something like that, that'd be really nice. Artum posted:If Bigmarines are 2w then something tells me they aren't going to be squads of 10. Terminators are 2w and I doubt they'll take away their ability to go in squads of 10.
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May 3, 2017 17:31
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Fuegan posted:Units in AoS get bonuses for not running MSU so actually a larger blob of Orks may gain say, an additional attack per model if there are 20 models in the unit, making running larger units actually quite effective. Horde units are also very good for countering mortal wounds since doing 6 MW to a squad of 40 boyz isn't as useful as doing 6 MW to a character with 6 wounds.
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May 3, 2017 17:32
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Pawl posted:Horde units are also very good for countering mortal wounds since doing 6 MW to a squad of 40 boyz isn't as useful as doing 6 MW to a character with 6 wounds. That's not really "countering" unless you're forced to shoot at the nearest target. Sure, don't put mortal wounds melee attacks into a horde if you can help it, but a lot of D-weapon shooting have big fuckoff table-length ranges anyway. That shadowsword or whatever doesn't have to shoot at that one boy up front, it'll be seeing over your boys to bigger targets behind and gently caress those up.
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May 3, 2017 17:35
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Shadow War Supplements are getting pretty cool https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/03/shadow-war-armageddon-one-man-armies/
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May 3, 2017 17:35
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Pawl posted:Horde units are also very good for countering mortal wounds since doing 6 MW to a squad of 40 boyz isn't as useful as doing 6 MW to a character with 6 wounds. Especially since horde-style units tend to have poo poo saves anyway. For them, Mortal Wounds are wounds you would probably take anyway vs an elite unit with five models and good saves being forced to take them.
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May 3, 2017 17:38
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Kind of funny that everyone essentially suffers from mob rule now.
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May 3, 2017 17:40
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chutche2 posted:That's not really "countering" unless you're forced to shoot at the nearest target. Sure, don't put mortal wounds melee attacks into a horde if you can help it, but a lot of D-weapon shooting have big fuckoff table-length ranges anyway. That shadowsword or whatever doesn't have to shoot at that one boy up front, it'll be seeing over your boys to bigger targets behind and gently caress those up. The one Mortal Wound we've seen so far targeted nearest unit, but that's due to being a psyker power and not a weapon. I really hope mortal wounds aren't too common, and if they are that they don't all autohit like AoS ones do.
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May 3, 2017 17:40
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Zasze posted:Shadow War Supplements are getting pretty cool Hell yeah, Marbo's back 
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May 3, 2017 17:40
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chutche2 posted:That's not really "countering" unless you're forced to shoot at the nearest target. Sure, don't put mortal wounds melee attacks into a horde if you can help it, but a lot of D-weapon shooting have big fuckoff table-length ranges anyway. That shadowsword or whatever doesn't have to shoot at that one boy up front, it'll be seeing over your boys to bigger targets behind and gently caress those up. You need to find ways to make your enemy put their limited supply of mortal wounds into the right targets. Forcing enemies to Fall Back is a good way to mitigate damage output from high damage targets. Leaving "bait' units in line of sight while hiding key units until the right moment. If you bring an army full of MSU and characters then you'll be extremely vulnerable to mortal wounds. AOS tries to hit a nice balance of "mortal wounds beat MSU, MSU beats hordes, hordes beat MSU" but falls slightly short because the written rules for LOS are lame. If you houserule Warmachine style LOS into AOS it turns into a much more enjoyable competitive game.
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May 3, 2017 17:42
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the hell is MSU
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May 3, 2017 17:40
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Zasze posted:Shadow War Supplements are getting pretty cool SLY MARBO
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May 3, 2017 17:41
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Geoff Zahn posted:the hell is MSU Multiple Small Units
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May 3, 2017 17:42
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Geoff Zahn posted:the hell is MSU Multiple Small Unit It means taking lots of small units rather than fewer large units. There are pros and cons to both approaches. MSU gives you more tactical flexibility and buff stacking potential but mortal wounds shut it down hard
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May 3, 2017 17:43
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chutche2 posted:SLY MARBO Sly goddamn Marbo
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May 3, 2017 17:44
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Ah, gotcha thanks. It's been awhile since I've played so I forgot all the lingo
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May 3, 2017 17:45
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Pawl posted:You need to find ways to make your enemy put their limited supply of mortal wounds into the right targets. Forcing enemies to Fall Back is a good way to mitigate damage output from high damage targets. Leaving "bait' units in line of sight while hiding key units until the right moment. I agree, warmachine LOS is way better, but we've got to work with what we have.
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May 3, 2017 17:51
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Zasze posted:Shadow War Supplements are getting pretty cool SLY MOTHERFUCKING MARBO, I THOUGHT YOU WERE DEAD!
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May 3, 2017 17:49
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Huh, they put out the article on how cover's gonna work a little early. https://regimental-standard.com/2017/05/03/a-good-guardsman-should-be-unseen-and-not-heard/ 
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May 3, 2017 17:52
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chutche2 posted:If they balance out the disadvantages of taking full units with something like that, that'd be really nice. Nobodies ever really been in danger of being drowned by many small terminator squads with the cost though have they.
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May 3, 2017 17:53
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Sooo at the rate they are teasing the rules, what are the chances that they actually drop this thing this weekend?
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May 3, 2017 17:56
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Arven posted:Sooo at the rate they are teasing the rules, what are the chances that they actually drop this thing this weekend? Unlikely. This weekend is the last of the Sector Mechanicum terrain and the 40 years of White Dwarf anniversary. We're probably looking at a late May/early June release.
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May 3, 2017 17:56
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They fixed up some wording on the morale page. Adding stuff like "the difference in additional models are lost". MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 17:58 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 17:56
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Is that a new Sly Marbo?
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May 3, 2017 17:59
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Artum posted:Nobodies ever really been in danger of being drowned by many small terminator squads with the cost though have they. Your point being? You said bigmarines won't have 10 man squads because they're 2W. There are other models in the game that come in 10 man squads despite being 2W. New terminators are one example, but don't nobz also come in full squads and have 2 wounds? I don't see how what you said has any bearing on this. Artum posted:If Bigmarines are 2w then something tells me they aren't going to be squads of 10.
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May 3, 2017 18:02
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mango sentinel posted:Is that a new Sly Marbo? Kitbash from the Catachan/Cadian command teams.
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May 3, 2017 18:01
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SteelMentor posted:Kitbash from the Catachan/Cadian command teams. He's got such a cute little kerchief 
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May 3, 2017 18:08
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SRM posted:He's got such a cute little kerchief Oh man, he does. That's great.
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May 3, 2017 18:10
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chutche2 posted:I agree, warmachine LOS is way better, but we've got to work with what we have. We house rule Warmachine LOS into our AoS games. I hate true LOS. Works great
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May 3, 2017 18:13
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How do the two LOS systems differ, if I can ask?
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May 3, 2017 18:12
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chutche2 posted:Your point being? My point being MSU with expensive units has never been an issue its always been cheap minimum size squads toting special weapons.
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May 3, 2017 18:13
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The Bee posted:How do the two LOS systems differ, if I can ask? Can't see through area terrain like woods is the main one we play, but also larger bases block LOS to smaller bases
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May 3, 2017 18:16
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The Bee posted:How do the two LOS systems differ, if I can ask? Warmachine is 2D LOS. Models come in 4 kinds of base sizes. 30, 40, 50, and 120mm. When drawing LOS to a model, if their base is completely obstructed by the base of models of equal or greater base size, LOS is blocked. If obstructed by models of lesser base size, LOS is not blocked. 40k uses true LOS, LOS drawn using the models and their actual sizes and largely ignoring bases. It means that it's harder to actually block LOS to stuff using models, while in warmachine a line of models base to base will block LOS to stuff behind them unless the stuff behind is on a bigger base. There are ways around it as well. Arcing fire weapons like mortars can ignore intervening models for LOS unless the intervening model is within 1 inch of the target. Models that are stealthed, incorporeal, or dug in also don't block LOS. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 18:15
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True LOS is some dumb poo poo
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May 3, 2017 18:17
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Someone mentioned that AoS has a lot of multi wound monstrous infantry that people use to avoid taking battle shocker test - if you don't lose a model, you don't have to take the test. Could see it happening especially with Tyranids.
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May 3, 2017 18:19
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The Bee posted:How do the two LOS systems differ, if I can ask? The short version is that in 40k "true line of sight" systems is based on whether you can actually see part of the target's physical model from where the firing model is, and the WarmaHordes version treats the hitbox as being a cylinder the same size of the base (height based on the width of the base). So like, if you modeled everyone as standing way to one side of the base, and then put them behind cover with just the empty side of it poking out, in 40k they aren't considered in line of sight, but in Warmachine they would be.
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May 3, 2017 18:17
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ANAmal.net posted:The short version is that in 40k "true line of sight" systems is based on whether you can actually see part of the target's physical model from where the firing model is, and the WarmaHordes version treats the hitbox as being a cylinder the same size of the base (height based on the width of the base). Yeah, that bugs me. I mean, it makes my bosspoles a liability, and makes me feel like a dirty cheater if I want to model my spanner boys taking a knee to shoot.
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May 3, 2017 18:21
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Yeah warmachine is *technically* a cylindrical LOS, but that only comes up in the case of "can this model be seen over this building" or whatever and 99% of the time people ignore that kind of thing and treat it as a purely 2D LOS system. Walls for example don't have an actual height and can be represented just fine as flat acrylic wall sections, because it's purely "does line of sight between these two models pass over this wall, and is the target within 1 inch of the wall". chutche2 fucked around with this message at 18:24 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 18:21
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