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Die Sexmonster! posted:It's a much better topic for discussion than most in this thread, but I'm going to posit Star Wars isn't hard sci-fi and a reading on that level isn't really the intent. Thematically, even, they gloss over any critical thought on droid humanity. This ain't Blade Runner, it's space wizards. Fincher stated he wanted to at one point, and well, gently caress it someone should let him.
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May 3, 2017 20:34
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Die Sexmonster! posted:It's a much better topic for discussion than most in this thread, but I'm going to posit Star Wars isn't hard sci-fi and a reading on that level isn't really the intent. Thematically, even, they gloss over any critical thought on droid humanity. This ain't Blade Runner, it's space wizards. I don't see the point of drawing arbitrary lines between what you think should or shouldn't be read. You;re free not to care about the discussion but why argue that it shouldn't take place?
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May 3, 2017 20:34
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"We don't serve their kind here" - a line from a movie that is clearly not trying to say anything about an underclass, no siree
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May 3, 2017 20:37
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This is a scene from Return of the Jedi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O0-dCLFadQ You'll notice that the torture of the droid isn't just an incidental background detail; it's in the foreground of the first shot, directly above R2 in the second, and then given its own close up in the final. Time is spent emphasizing that this is a droid which is having heated irons applied to its feet, and it is screaming as a result. One can argue whether or not this is programmed pain or whatever, but we're obviously meant to associate it with torture. C-3PO is horrified by what is happening. He is scared that the same will happen to him. There is no reason to torture or scare a droid. If R2 is a "feisty little one" but will "soon learn some respect", why not simply wipe his memory and turn him into a perfect servant? Regardless of any "practical" arguments, the film is treating these characters as though they were sentient beings capable of feelings and desires. --- This is a flexible black box theatre stage:  They are one of the most common types of theatre, along with Prosceniums, Thrusts, and arenas. They are highly configurable, because all they are is a room painted black, and both the seating and set can be placed where ever one chooses. Much black box theatre is performed with either minimalistic or no set, and minimal costuming. Everything from very traditional Shakespeare or Greek tragedy, to very modern experimental or absurd theatre can performed black box. The actors get over themselves and do their drat jobs. They idea that you can't act against a blue or green screen is patently false. Even on a very built up set and detailed, there's this thing called the Fourth Wall. It's the one that the audience sees through into the action.  In a film or TV, this area is completely covered with cameras, crew, other actors, people's girlfriends, craft services, runners with script changes... In modern one camera filming, the cameras will often be directly in your face, over your shoulder, between your legs, kneeling in front of you shooting up your nose, or in a myriad of other very close positions. There is never a moment in which you are not aware that you are acting.    Scrubs was filmed in an actual hospital, but even then, it was chockful of camera people and assistants and such. You get over it and do it anyways. This is why acting is a learned skill that takes time and effort, and not some magical gift granted by the gods. The idea that "Oh, if only they'd had more real sets!" is garbage. Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 21:50 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 21:02
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Strangely, I'm remind how bad of a show Scrubs was yet I kept watching it. Anyway, Star wars.
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May 3, 2017 21:04
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Also the pre-quels were a landmark in miniature design and filming. Really, some of the stuff they did was incredible. Also impressive set and location shoots. The "but cgi" complaint is the flimsiest there is and disrespects some amazing prop/set design.
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May 3, 2017 21:48
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Covok posted:Strangely, I'm remind how bad of a show Scrubs was yet I kept watching it. gently caress you. Scrubs is better than Star Wars.
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May 3, 2017 22:05
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Detective No. 27 posted:The clones are biological humanoids. They were designed for the sole purpose of killing. Do they not also deserve personhood? The clones are an aberration. An affront to God.
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May 3, 2017 23:24
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Danger posted:Also the pre-quels were a landmark in miniature design and filming. Really, some of the stuff they did was incredible. Also impressive set and location shoots. The "but cgi" complaint is the flimsiest there is and disrespects some amazing prop/set design. I posted it before, I'll post it again..."but the CGI" is the "but her emails" of film criticism.
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May 3, 2017 23:29
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jivjov posted:I posted it before, I'll post it again..."but the CGI" is the "but her emails" of film criticism. Does anyone here have a blanket hate of CG? People hate bad CG, which is in abundance in the prequels.
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May 3, 2017 23:30
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Danger posted:Also the pre-quels were a landmark in miniature design and filming. Really, some of the stuff they did was incredible. Also impressive set and location shoots. The "but cgi" complaint is the flimsiest there is and disrespects some amazing prop/set design. The waterfalls of Theed were actually created out of salt.
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May 3, 2017 23:32
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jivjov posted:I posted it before, I'll post it again..."but the CGI" is the "but her emails" of film criticism. Ben "Obi-Wan" Ghazi
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May 3, 2017 23:36
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Yaws posted:Does anyone here have a blanket hate of CG? People hate bad CG, which is in abundance in the prequels. The CGI in the prequels isn't bad, it now looks very dated. With how fast the technology has leaped forward in the past 15 years I don't think its really fair to expect CGI from the early 2000s to hold up as well as it did at the time. I really don't remember anyone complaining about any aspect of the special effects whatsoever when the movies were in theaters, they were regarded as cutting edge. To a kid who wasn't alive in the 70s, 80s, or 90s, the effects techniques used in the OT will look just as "bad", if not more so.
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May 3, 2017 23:39
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jivjov posted:I posted it before, I'll post it again..."but the CGI" is the "but her emails" of film criticism. man i can understand hating the prequels but even they don't deserve being compared to hilary clinton
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May 3, 2017 23:41
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I think the only prequels-CG I really dislike is Threepio holding onto the flying platform with only his fingertips in AOTC, but that's mostly just because Threepio shouldn't be able to lift his arms over his head at all. It's the worst shot in that whole movie.
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May 4, 2017 00:01
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jivjov posted:I posted it before, I'll post it again..."but the CGI" is the "but her emails" of film criticism. I would like to see a Venn Diagram of prequel-hate weirdos and Trump voters. I imagine it would be pretty close to a circle.
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May 4, 2017 00:09
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Yaws posted:Does anyone here have a blanket hate of CG? People hate bad CG, which is in abundance in the prequels. The CG in the prequels is mostly quite good, but at parts is merely fine. Granted, I say this having most recently watched the bluray versions, which have been updated compared to the versions shown in theater. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 00:16 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 00:12
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I remember even at the time, AOTC was pretty loving impressive. We saw LOTR's partially CGI armies attack each other at night, AOTC threw two completely CGI armies at each other in the middle of the day. It was pretty cool.
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May 4, 2017 00:17
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UmOk posted:I would like to see a Venn Diagram of prequel-hate weirdos and Trump voters. I imagine it would be pretty close to a circle. what
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May 4, 2017 00:18
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Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker's voice modulator.UmOk posted:I would like to see a Venn Diagram of prequel-hate weirdos and Trump voters. I imagine it would be pretty close to a circle. Nah.
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May 4, 2017 00:53
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Danger posted:Also the pre-quels were a landmark in miniature design and filming. Really, some of the stuff they did was incredible. Also impressive set and location shoots. The "but cgi" complaint is the flimsiest there is and disrespects some amazing prop/set design. Shame about everything else
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May 4, 2017 01:01
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Danger posted:Also the pre-quels were a landmark in miniature design and filming. Really, some of the stuff they did was incredible. Also impressive set and location shoots. The "but cgi" complaint is the flimsiest there is and disrespects some amazing prop/set design. Plus the CG in Revenge of the Sith is really good. Parts of it are of course dated but there's quite a few parts where everything comes together and the movie just looks awesome.
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May 4, 2017 01:04
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I wonder how many posts this thread could go without a facile comparison to Trump or goons implicitly accusing the people who disagree with them about Star War of being racist.
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May 4, 2017 01:42
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Yaws posted:Does anyone here have a blanket hate of CG? People hate bad CG, which is in abundance in the prequels. When the prequels came out, they were some of the first movies doing what they did as extensively as they did. I keep going back to King Kong when I talk about the CGI in the prequels, because as far as I know the prequels (and Lord of the Rings) pushed the boundaries of special effects in a similar way. I don't like the movies as much as King Kong, but I think the effects themselves were a positive thing for the industry. The effects are dated now, but the effects in King Kong were dated after awhile, too. Mighty Joe Young came out 16 years after King Kong. His movements are generally a lot smoother than Kong's, his anatomy is much closer to an actual gorilla's, and the rear projection doesn't seem to lose the dark tones as much, resulting in some better compositing. There's a shot in this clip where it goes behind Joe's back, and as he moves his head you can see the skin of his neck realistically deform in a way that I can't remember seeing in King Kong (though I admit it might have and I just forgot): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mOdWLG4bNU&t=129s I kinda just don't like seeing CGI trivialized when compared to the work of people like O'Brien or Harryhausen or Stan Winston. CG artists do a lot of hard work, too, and their work is often one of the few high points of a bad movie.
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May 4, 2017 01:44
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sassassin posted:I don't see the point of drawing arbitrary lines between what you think should or shouldn't be read. I didn't argue it shouldn't take place. Hell, I said it was the best topic for conversation the thread has offered in awhile. My point was that they haven't tackled the subject in the main text like classic sci-fi is known for. (Asimov, Philip K. Dick) It's all over in the subtext, but never pushed into the spotlight.
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May 4, 2017 02:00
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Doing my classic rewatch (II, III, V, VI) and I'd agree ^ The space battle at the start. it was like a response to LotRs.
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May 4, 2017 02:00
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Beeez posted:I wonder how many posts this thread could go without a facile comparison to Trump or goons implicitly accusing the people who disagree with them about Star War of being racist. 
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May 4, 2017 02:01
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star wars is good and trump is bad
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May 4, 2017 02:03
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TWIST FIST posted:star wars is good and trump is bad This is why facile comparisons aren't always wrong.
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May 4, 2017 02:10
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The EU: good or bad?
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May 4, 2017 02:10
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Covok posted:The EU: good or bad?
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May 4, 2017 02:14
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Die Sexmonster! posted:I didn't argue it shouldn't take place. Hell, I said it was the best topic for conversation the thread has offered in awhile. My point was that they haven't tackled the subject in the main text like classic sci-fi is known for. (Asimov, Philip K. Dick) It's all over in the subtext, but never pushed into the spotlight. "If droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?" - a movie that definitely isn't commenting on a liberal democracy's fear of an untermensch uprising
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May 4, 2017 02:50
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Covok posted:The EU: good or bad?
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May 4, 2017 03:22
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Covok posted:The EU: good or bad? Great Britain joined the Separatists
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May 4, 2017 03:53
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Toph Bei Fong posted:This is a scene from Return of the Jedi: As a child I watched the first 30 minutes or so of Return of the Jedi on video constantly before I had better stuff to do, but had to go out of the room before this bit because it was so horrible. People bringing in obfuscatory arguments about whether AI in Star Wars can ever actually achieve personhood are missing a point that a literal 3-year-old will get: the lives of the droids are just as valuable, they are our friends and we empathise with them.
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May 4, 2017 04:15
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What ever happened to old master Watto?
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May 4, 2017 04:25
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General Dog posted:What ever happened to old master Watto? He was probably on the Death Star when it exploded or something equally stupid.
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May 4, 2017 04:29
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General Dog posted:What ever happened to old master Watto?
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May 4, 2017 04:31
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As far as the films are concerned he continued trading merchandise, offloaded an old slave, and thats it really. I assume at some point he died.
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May 4, 2017 04:40
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Watto eventually became producer for Max Rebo's band and had a long successful career until he pulled a Phil Spector.
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May 4, 2017 04:56
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