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Spaghetti factories are easy to make. "I need gears here, lets make a separate line for it. Oh poo poo I need gears over here too, lets just drag the belt over here. Oh poo poo i need them at the bottom over here, lets split it off, go under my other belts and get over there. gently caress now my iron is running out before it gets there, I need to add an extra source of iron plates in the middle".
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May 3, 2017 13:54
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Loopoo posted:I dunno I'm just being pedantic. I've noticed it a whole lot. Someone will laugh abashedly about how their factory is ~so spaghetti oh dear~ and then post a pic of the most immaculately kept and maintained factories. It's like a status symbol to have a spaghetti factory? I'm just being a big old grumps. Yeah, the top one isn't spaghetti to me, because I think of it more in terms of mess and compromise, but I think to some people it's more about the overall design. Something can be neat and organised and they still think of it as "spaghetti" because nothing is planned beyond placing the next block/area down where it fits best right now, even if that block itself is neat and you have enough space for it. It's not the term I'd use, but eh, whatever. That said, when you build like that it's likely to turn into spaghetti at some point as the recipes get more complicated.
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May 3, 2017 13:54
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For me the bus is just a way of getting material from A to B, C and D without having to build paths A-B, A-C, A-D etc separately. The interesting bit is in building the sub-factories that provide and consume the bus. I spent an hour in an exceptionally boring and pointless meeting today drawing up a design for a tri-color circuit factory on graph paper.
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May 3, 2017 13:57
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redleader posted:Alternatively, how do you go from making boring bus factories to complicated, holy-poo poo-how-does-this-even-work spaghetti factories? Goon Island is the perfect map for unlearning over-optimized designs - it is just the right size to support everything you need to get going, but once you try to scale things up or "waste" space on bus infrastructure you run out of room really fast. Also makes it feel extra rewarding when you finally get a foothold on the mainland with room for a proper factory (which will likely be rail-connected because your production facilities are still stuck on the island).
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May 3, 2017 14:42
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Or you could do what I did: learn nothing and spend hours turning every bit of stone on the island into landfill. Now I've got a big rectangular island with complete roboport coverage, and I'm about to tear down all my piecemeal production to make way for a shiny new setup before completing my bridge to the mainland. Establishing a beachhead should be interesting.
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May 3, 2017 15:32
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Toast Museum posted:Or you could do what I did: learn nothing and spend hours turning every bit of stone on the island into landfill. Now I've got a big rectangular island with complete roboport coverage, and I'm about to tear down all my piecemeal production to make way for a shiny new setup before completing my bridge to the mainland. Establishing a beachhead should be interesting. This is what I started. I've been playing in an MP non-island game, so I haven't revisited it, but I have a steel chest full of landfill.
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May 3, 2017 16:03
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redleader posted:How do you make the mental adjustment to go from one factory using a standard and lovely bus, to multiple factories connected by trains and poo poo? I get intimidated when scaling up and don't know how to make that transition. As has been said, for iron/copper just make a train station near your furnaces and join the output from the station with that of the furnaces (or replace them entirely). This will also require making a separate area(s) for your new furnace complex(es), each with one raw material station receive ore and another section to ship out plates to the bus/main factory. You now have at least two factories, or preferably three if you made separate furnace complexes for iron. Keep thinking along these lines of 'scaling up while keeping things neatly separated'. Need more green circuits? Tap off some of the raw copper and iron from your main factory--preferably 'upstream', near the copper/iron delivery stations you just built-- to another train station where trains of 2/4/6 (even number) of freight cars will ship those plates to a new green circuit complex. Or make one copper and one iron shipping station and run multiple trains on that line of any length to two corresponding stations at the new green circuit complex. Ship the green circuits back to the main bus area. Repeat as you like, stripping out your initial bus-side factories to make more width for the bus for all the supply you're dumping in. At some point you may decide the bus is getting unmanageable and you need to rip it out and connect the train stations more directly, or integrate robots for items that aren't constantly needed, etc. I haven't gotten to that point yet cause I was waiting for 0.15 but that's where I'm headed at the moment. redleader posted:Alternatively, how do you go from making boring bus factories to complicated, holy-poo poo-how-does-this-even-work spaghetti factories? Try not to think ahead. Build assemblers when you need them and where convenient. Leave a little bit of room between assembler groups for belts to snake as needed. Keep doing that. Get into oil, build your refineries close to your factory and your chemical plants as close as possible to where their products are needed. Pipe and pump as needed. The problem with spaghetti for me is that it makes expansion slow and laborious. This is not too bad earlier on but as everything grows, new expansions take increasing amounts of time and tweaking to function at all well. Blueprints and construction bots are nearly useless because each new assembler group needs to be tailored to the shape of that edge of the factory and where the inputs and outputs need to go. If you're patient and this suits your playstyle, more power to you! The final product looks more interesting and complex because you're 'hand-making' each part, as is the case in game development (vs. copy/pasting assets) or any creative endeavor. rockopete fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 18:05
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Speaking of trains, what kind of station layouts do people like to use for things like a furnace depot? I've got a two track one-way mainline running everywhere, and I usually do a T off with a return loop and a bunch of stops in a ladder, but I'm realizing that isn't leaving any waiting area, and it takes up a lot of space, so I was curious what other people use for their layouts. This time around I've also been trying to avoid 90 degree curves, because I think they look ugly, so my ladder yards get really huge if I try to have more than 3 or so stops, but I haven't really thought of a better layout so far.
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May 3, 2017 18:49
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mastermind2004 posted:Speaking of trains, what kind of station layouts do people like to use for things like a furnace depot? I've got a two track one-way mainline running everywhere, and I usually do a T off with a return loop and a bunch of stops in a ladder, but I'm realizing that isn't leaving any waiting area, and it takes up a lot of space, so I was curious what other people use for their layouts. This time around I've also been trying to avoid 90 degree curves, because I think they look ugly, so my ladder yards get really huge if I try to have more than 3 or so stops, but I haven't really thought of a better layout so far. I'm currently setting up 3 of these monstrosities (one each for iron, copper and steel) - once modules and beacons are there, this will saturate 8 blue belts. 10 waiting slots both on pickup and dropoff. Nowhere even close to my current demand, but now that I'm off the island I want to use all that space.  Closeup of the stations:  The wiring on the chests is both to count current stock and to shut down the stations as needed. The smaller station is used for my double-ended fuel supply train to ensure that my ore trains don't run dry (the station only gets turned on if fuel supply is running low, so the fuel train sits in its home depot most of the time).
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May 3, 2017 19:07
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Once I have a dedicated smelting railstop I like to smelt both copper and iron in the same furnaces and separate it on the way out with circuits and filter inserters. You only need two bits of logic: 1) If copper plate still on this belt piece at the end, stop moving (and give time for filter inserter to remove it) 2) If rail station loader for copper / iron plate is near full, don't let that ore type into the smelter. The reason for this is that I can then have the same furnace capacity (optimized with beacons) firing all the time.
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May 3, 2017 20:12
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redleader posted:Alternatively, how do you go from making boring bus factories to complicated, holy-poo poo-how-does-this-even-work spaghetti factories? You can start by just outsourcing your main bus gear wheels and green circuits to an external site, since those are simple enough and free up bus space. Then you can get fancy and have the train stations all have the same name and use logic to turn on/off when input is needed/full, such that you can have just one "deliver iron plate" train type even though it goes to both the circuit and gear wheel outpost.
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May 3, 2017 20:14
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I said this a while ago, and man it came true in a big way.RyokoTK posted:I'm sure once I start trying to get yellow tech going though that green chip siphon is going to come back to haunt me in a big way. 3 blue chips and a speed module for two yellow beakers The yellow beaker recipe consumes a total of eighty-seven green chips to manufacture two beakers. So that Rocket Silo recipe, which costs 1000 of each beaker, calls for a grand total of 58,000 green chips: 43,500 for yellow, 8500 for purple, 5000 for blue, and 1000 for green. But I guess that's good because it means once you research the Rocket Silo you probably already have the manufacturing power to support building your first rocket in a reasonable time frame. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 20:20 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 20:15
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seravid posted:y Factorio: every unhappy factory is unoptimized in its own way. redleader posted:How do you make the mental adjustment to go from one factory using a standard and lovely bus, to multiple factories connected by trains and poo poo? I get intimidated when scaling up and don't know how to make that transition. I was feeling the same way. I managed to break out of that rut by starting a lazy bastard run. Optimizing away hand built components really made me rethink how I was going to place things in a way that kept the factory growing while being sustainable with a lower overall output.
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May 3, 2017 20:53
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Did some more playing around with those sensors, I'm sure it's old hat for a lot of people but I never got around to it. I've improved on sensor thing from a few pages ago which had extraneous parts imo. These two options are best if you want to fill the spur completely instead of half a single bus lane (a normal splitter) I want this basically all of the time; I would rather things down the line starve so that the closer things operate at full capacity. Most people including myself build down the bus as things are unlocked; for example, green science is behind red science. If I create blue science but don't have enough material input, I don't want blue starving out my red and green lines or my gears or circuits which are the first things in the bus. This is all you really need:  One link, nothing fancy. The spur side is set to "Read" and "Hold" and the bus side is set to Anything (Green *) > 7. If you're trying to fit the sensor into the middle of the bus and it's on a curved tile, set it > 4. Curved is suboptimal and will stutter on/off a bit and so you'll only get ~2/3rds of the belt going to the spur. Which is still better than half, but not as good as the straight example which sends almost everything. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 21:05
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Thanks, I've been running up against that issue with gears trickling down to nothing because the gear assemblers 'only' take half my iron output with my current splitter set up.
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May 3, 2017 22:19
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When you start scaling up you will probably want a dedicated feed of iron for gear production imo
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May 3, 2017 22:27
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RyokoTK posted:When you start scaling up you will probably want a dedicated feed of iron for gear production imo For tougher settings it can be useful to have two factories. One for science and one for making stuff. It prevents you running out of things required to keep building on the one hand and lets your science happily gobble everything on the other.
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May 3, 2017 23:43
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I get the feeling that a single line of iron won't make enough gears if you're aiming for 1 science pack/sec of each of the types.
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May 3, 2017 23:46
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The Saddest Robot posted:I get the feeling that a single line of iron won't make enough gears if you're aiming for 1 science pack/sec of each of the types. I can't imagine it is considering that only ends up being half a line of gears.
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May 4, 2017 00:24
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The Saddest Robot posted:I get the feeling that a single line of iron won't make enough gears if you're aiming for 1 science pack/sec of each of the types. Going by https://factorio.rotol.me/pack/base-f15-normal/factoratio/ 1 science/sec (excluding rocket launching) takes a little under 200 iron plates per second. Of that, ~33% goes to green chips and 25% goes to steel, which we bus, so we'd end up with a requirement of less than 80 iron plates/second, which according to http://imgur.com/r/factorio/MqCd6 fits on two blue belts. It's true that if we wanted to reduce throughput iron gears would be the next intermediate product we'd bus, as it reduces 40 iron/s to 20 gears/s. In our 1 science/s example this reduces us to a blue and a red, which means we're increasing the hookup complexity without reducing the number of belts in the bus. I haven't played megafactories yet and it might change there. I could see a scenario where you have a smelting station that takes trains of iron ore and outputs trains of gears.
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May 4, 2017 00:44
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Onean posted:I can't remember who linked it a little while back, but this site is what I've been using since. It's got .15's Normal and Expensive ratios. Just choose a pack and then use the Factoratio link at the top of the next page. i just spent today working this out by spreadsheeting it - my third attempt at the 15h launch was another bust so I thought gently caress it, I'll work out what I need to get at least gold science working at a nice pace. So designed a spreadsheet to spit out numbers, and then tooled about in sandbox to design production units to get the 7 gold science assembs working at peak. This site is showing the same numbers, except for non-assembler things where I hosed up the ratios. I'm glad I need only 79 copper smelters to feed the blue circuit section and not 105. fake edit: Now I've tweaked so my spreadsheet agrees with Factoratio, I'll stick with it, since I can easily combine production units -- For 7 PUs of grape science: I need 5 PUs of elec Engines and 5 PUs of Pumpjacks. Elec Engines take 0.5 PUs worth of Green Circuits while Pumpjacks take 1.25. So instead of 3 assemblers (1 for Elec.Eng., 2 for PJ) - I can just use the 2 for pumpjacks and then site the Elec Engine on the other side of the green belt.
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May 4, 2017 02:09
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redleader posted:Alternatively, how do you go from making boring bus factories to complicated, holy-poo poo-how-does-this-even-work spaghetti factories? get off the bus
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May 4, 2017 02:20
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Factorio: White science packs go at the front of the bus
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May 4, 2017 05:27
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Factorio: the gear wheels on the bus go round and round
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May 4, 2017 12:57
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Another lovely mod, this one came from a request on reddit: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/GotLag/Locomotive%20Obituaries It prints a simple message in chat when a locomotive on your team dies. If it was killed by an entity it will say what type.
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May 4, 2017 12:58
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Anyone using the Angel and Bob's combination? I'm waiting for the last few mods to get updated for 0.15 and then be confused by the extra complexity.
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May 4, 2017 13:15
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Throwing cluster grenades out the window of the tank is more effective than depleted uranium tank shells, still. 
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May 4, 2017 13:15
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RyokoTK posted:Throwing cluster grenades out the window of the tank is more effective than depleted uranium tank shells, still. I haven't played a lot recently, have you tried using uranium magazines with the tank's MG yet? How effective is that?
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May 4, 2017 13:19
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Truga posted:I haven't played a lot recently, have you tried using uranium magazines with the tank's MG yet? How effective is that? Uranium bullets do a loving disgusting amount of damage, both in the SMG and the tank MG; it's the most effective tank gun by far right now. They'll destroy a biter structure in maybe half a second.
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May 4, 2017 13:22
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TBH, even just piercing bullets destroy nests in like one second. It's the super evolved biters with high amounts of armour that start getting extremely annoying to kill with the tank MG with piercing bullets, because you go through a whole mag or 3 to kill a single big biter. I'm kinda hoping DU mags fix that.
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May 4, 2017 13:24
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They do. Green ammo does a little more than triple the damage of red ammo. And considering there's nothing else you're gonna do with all that extra U-238 and there's no other material cost to make it it's a completely free upgrade to the red ammo you were already making. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 13:37
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I used destroyer capsules last night. 60 of those dudes following you, shields in power armor, and you have no problem walking into the middle of a pack of dozens of worms. E: plus probably a mix of a hundred or so bitters and spitters of all sizes swarming.
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May 4, 2017 13:43
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I burnt myself out with this dumb new megafactory idea  It's been an absolute ball ache setting it up, and I'm idiotic in the sense that I scaled it up so massively before even getting a basic infrastructure set up. So I'm constantly having to run back on the train to my starter base (that has died by now since I haven't been supplying it with stuff) to grab items to shove into my cargo train, so I can zip back to the new base location and spend 2 hours planning poo poo out and building it.I might just tear down the new base and start small and work to big. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.
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May 4, 2017 13:46
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Loopoo posted:Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. I bet it would have been if they'd had construction bots
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May 4, 2017 13:51
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GotLag posted:I bet it would have been if they'd had construction bots Not with the lazy bastards my factories spit out, they'd much rather stand in line at a roboport all day - guess I keep spreading them out too far, but I hate constantly having to build around them. How do you guys place your ports to keep things from clogging up?
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May 4, 2017 14:08
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fezball posted:Not with the lazy bastards my factories spit out, they'd much rather stand in line at a roboport all day - guess I keep spreading them out too far, but I hate constantly having to build around them. How do you guys place your ports to keep things from clogging up? Sounds like you don't have enough roboports to charge the swarms of bots you've got. Place down more ports.
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May 4, 2017 14:17
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Loopoo posted:I might just tear down the new base and start small and work to big. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that. Only because they didn't have blueprints and construction bots.
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May 4, 2017 14:20
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Is there a way to disable pollution after the fact? I've got a player on my server that takes a while to catch up when connecting because his computer is barely maintaining 60 UPS. When two of us were clearing bitters, his catch up progress was actually falling further behind. While they optimized rendering of huge clouds of pollution, it apparently takes a lot to keep it updated according to the internet. So, I would like to disable pollution if it is possible. I can't find a toggle for it in the Lua API, but I'm also not experienced with the Factorio API.
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May 4, 2017 14:32
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fezball posted:Not with the lazy bastards my factories spit out, they'd much rather stand in line at a roboport all day - guess I keep spreading them out too far, but I hate constantly having to build around them. How do you guys place your ports to keep things from clogging up? Within the confines of my base every rail line has large power poles in the center of it for transmission and redundancy, each of those large poles has an incorporated robot port and lamp. If you have a bus I have a full row of solid roboports. I also place a row of them in between the spurs manufacturing things off the bus. Don't worry about spreading them out for coverage or perfectly overlapping coverage areas, if you do that then you have to build around them like you mentioned. Just make a solid line of them wherever you can fit in.
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May 4, 2017 14:48
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Mr. Powers posted:Is there a way to disable pollution after the fact? I've got a player on my server that takes a while to catch up when connecting because his computer is barely maintaining 60 UPS. When two of us were clearing bitters, his catch up progress was actually falling further behind. Do you use SpaceBook? It's probably an option in there.
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