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By saying you think Shrine of Amana is unfair you've turned your entire post into a joke. Just because it throws a different sort of challenge at you doesn't mean its poorly designed or insanely difficult. It just requires a different approach. Also if you died to any of the exploding hollows in the Gutter that's your own drat fault for not being extremely careful in an area that's pitch black.
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May 4, 2017 20:53
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It's a weird argument in the face of Humanity and Twin Humanities being full heals you can use at any time, too. In DS3 it limits the same thing to one and done (unless you're already Embered). Speaking of enemies to never fight I don't think I ever killed more than a single drake in the Valley of Drakes.
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May 4, 2017 20:54
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Internet Kraken posted:By saying you think Shrine of Amana is unfair you've turned your entire post into a joke. Just because it throws a different sort of challenge at you doesn't mean its poorly designed or insanely difficult. It just requires a different approach. I'm saying it's unpleasant in the extreme to clear without resorting to sniping every spellcaster before they can do anything. That is not a controversial stance. And I was refering to a specific one where the bottom of the ladder suddenly drops out and you're marooned on a platform at a fatal height with a hollow who immediately explodes and punts you off, there's no reasonable way to see it coming. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 20:55
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multijoe posted:I'm saying it's unpleasant in the extreme to clear without resorting to sniping every spellcaster before they can do anything. That is not a controversial stance. I mean, if you can't handle a different sort of challenge then sure its unpleasant. Or you could just adapt to your situation. Either way its hardly what I'd call a nightmare given you have multiple ways of dealing with it. multijoe posted:And I was refering to a specific one where the bottom of the ladder suddenly drops out and you're marooned on a platform at a fatal height with a hollow who immediately explodes and punts you off, there's no reasonable way to see it coming. I don't even remember that part so somehow I doubt its as unavoidable as you claim. Most paths in the Gutter have multiple ways to cross them. Why are you dropping off a ladder without looking out for what is below you anyways? The closest the Gutter comes to having "gotchas!" is when random wooden platforms break. You have no way of telling which lovely planks will hold and which will collapse. However all those drops either put you in an area with no enemies or ones with the lovely hollows that are extremely slow. So they are only cheap if you panic rather than remaining calm.
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May 4, 2017 21:04
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Dragonslayer armor was way tougher than I thought it would be. Twin princes were ez pz by comparison (boreal dancer even moreso). I probably died five times to the weird dragon things blasting me near the end of the fight, not to mention the countless times that fucker ornstein pushed me off the battle area. I only noticed after the fight that the battle arena was twice as large as I thought it was... I got slaughtered by dragon breath the two times I went near the fountain but I guess that was just weird luck. It's odd how much different people have trouble with different bosses, moreso than almost any other game I've played.
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May 4, 2017 21:07
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Dancer is easier than Abyss Watchers when fought at the same level, something is not right about that.
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May 4, 2017 21:18
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Internet Kraken posted:I mean, if you can't handle a different sort of challenge then sure its unpleasant. Or you could just adapt to your situation. Either way its hardly what I'd call a nightmare given you have multiple ways of dealing with it. 'Adapt' meaning shooting them in the head with arrows. Trying to fight whole packs of Archdrake Knights and the mutant boglurker dudes (which you can only detect with your torch out) whilst being constantly sniped by the priestesses (who will force you to put your torch out by rolling through the water) is nigh-on impossible and clearly not how the area was designed to be completed and a great example of how DS2 areas reward cheese tactics over competent use of the core combat mechanics Internet Kraken posted:I don't even remember that part so somehow I doubt its as unavoidable as you claim. Most paths in the Gutter have multiple ways to cross them. Why are you dropping off a ladder without looking out for what is below you anyways? It's at the end of The Gutter where you enter the tower with several ladders all leading to its base. You can't see what's at the base of each due to the flooring so the only way you'd see it coming is if you slowly climbed down each ladder without sliding to check if it drops out into a insta-death ambush. I can't recall any similar setups either before or after so it is effectively a one-time gotcha or using the wrong ladder.
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May 4, 2017 21:24
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Amana doesn't need any arrows. You need to use the same strategy as Iron Keep before SotFS hosed it to hell and back: un-pick the enemy formation by pulling and dispatching everything in the correct order while using geographical features as cover from ranged attacks. The insanely contrived death pits everywhere are a far more legitimate criticism of Amana and I'm not going to defend that poo poo at all.
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May 4, 2017 21:32
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quote:'Adapt' meaning shooting them in the head with arrows. Trying to fight whole packs of Archdrake Knights and the mutant boglurker dudes (which you can only detect with your torch out) whilst being constantly sniped by the priestesses (who will force you to put your torch out by rolling through the water) is nigh-on impossible and clearly not how the area was designed to be completed and a great example of how DS2 areas reward cheese tactics over competent use of the core combat mechanics DS2 emphasizes ranged combat more than the others with the stronger bows and spells having a variety of ranges (before being made mostly useless). It's part of the core mechanics. It's not really DS2's fault you didn't use them (nor do you really need them).
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May 4, 2017 21:35
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Internet Kraken posted:*effortlessly kills the vast majority of enemies by spamming soul arrow from 20 feet away* A lot of enemies (especially bosses) can close distances and hit you between pressing R1 and the spell coming out, during which time you are completely locked in place. For something like the twin demons you really need a tank to be able to get anywhere.
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May 4, 2017 21:38
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Just pestilant mercuried my way through Midir on my second playthrough of the ringed city. Oh my god it was depressingly easy relative to killing him fairly. I still enjoyed it.
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May 4, 2017 21:38
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Arrows are never necessary.multijoe posted:It's at the end of The Gutter where you enter the tower with several ladders all leading to its base. You can't see what's at the base of each due to the flooring so the only way you'd see it coming is if you slowly climbed down each ladder without sliding to check if it drops out into a insta-death ambush. I can't recall any similar setups either before or after so it is effectively a one-time gotcha or using the wrong ladder. I'm sorry but this is literally a-tale-of-two-adventurers.jpg Even then you still have enough time to melee kill the exploding dude before he explodes.
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May 4, 2017 21:38
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RBA Starblade posted:DS2 emphasizes ranged combat more than the others with the stronger bows and spells having a variety of ranges (before being made mostly useless). It's part of the core mechanics. It's not really DS2's fault you didn't use them (nor do you really need them). And therein lies the problem - ranged combat sucks incredible amounts of rear end in Souls games and is a mostly a method of (slowly) bypassing encounters rather than engaging with them. You're exchanging the timing, spacing and decision making of attacks, dodges, blocks and counters for peeking out from around a corner and shooting something in the head a number of times until it dies, occasionally stepping back in to avoid their own projectiles, it barely even counts as gameplay.
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May 4, 2017 21:48
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Sapozhnik posted:Dancer is easier than Abyss Watchers when fought at the same level, something is not right about that. What, this is not even slightly true. Watchers are insanely weak and squishy, I have never ever died to them. Dancer is reasonably challenging even when you're "supposed" to fight her.
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May 4, 2017 21:58
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I almost never used bows on my last playthrough DS2. Only used it in Shulva, the area that has puzzles that explicitly require the bow. I beat the Shrine of Amana by hitting dudes with my sword. It was a hard section but it was perfectly fair and enjoyable.Sapozhnik posted:Dancer is easier than Abyss Watchers when fought at the same level, something is not right about that. It might be that difficulty is subjective and some people have more trouble with certain types of challenges than other people do. ...Nah! Augus fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 22:12
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Anyways, this isn't the DS2 thread and I could rant about how much the level and encounter design ticks me off in that game all night. Meanwhile, I am currently feeling extremely owned by everything in Ringed City. Demon Ornstein and Demon Smough are just tremedous pricks!
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May 4, 2017 22:17
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multijoe posted:And therein lies the problem - ranged combat sucks incredible amounts of rear end in Souls games Sapozhnik posted:The insanely contrived death pits everywhere are a far more legitimate criticism of Amana and I'm not going to defend that poo poo at all. Stressful to do while you're being shot at and perhaps not the most elegant design they've done but I wouldn't call it "contrived" any more than say, the Tomb of the Giants.
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May 4, 2017 22:21
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multijoe posted:
Dorhys Gnawing my man
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May 4, 2017 22:21
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it's proven true with pretty much everything else, but Black Fire Orb will probably gently caress up the Ringed Knights with shields
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May 4, 2017 22:23
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Whats the best level to start on the DLCs?
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May 4, 2017 22:25
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I was thinking how instead of the Demon Prince, fighting or facing the Primordial Serpents in some shape or form in that same arena would have been amazing. Landing in ruined, darkened Firelink, fighting the Serpents, then going down into Frampt's pit and getting to the Ringed City from there would have been a lot better thematically, made more sense for the location, and made the whole DLC a lot more satisfying lore-wise. Not to mention it would have kept the strength of the Old Demon King fight being you exterminating the last of demon-kind, who are now ruined, pathetic creatures. Hell even if you just saw the corpse of one of them there it would have been a very strong moment.
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May 4, 2017 22:25
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Sleekly posted:Whats the best level to start on the DLCs? About 80 should be fine for the first one, and around 100-120 for Ringed City would be best.
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May 4, 2017 22:27
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Dorhys Gnawing my man In the end The Demon Prince was no match for the, some say, inhuman power of the Thrall Axe and it's ability to hop slightly far.
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May 4, 2017 22:27
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Augus posted:It might be that difficulty is subjective and some people have more trouble with certain types of challenges than other people do. That said, it's kinda amazing just how different the things people find difficult are! Take me for example, who died probably 5 times more to Ledo than Midir 
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May 4, 2017 22:27
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Sleekly posted:Whats the best level to start on the DLCs? 120+ for Ringed City
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May 4, 2017 22:31
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Maleh-Vor posted:About 80 should be fine for the first one, and around 100-120 for Ringed City would be best. Quantum of Phallus posted:120+ for Ringed City Much obliged.
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May 4, 2017 22:35
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If you do the first DLC at level 80 you're gonna stroll through everything up until Friede. As dumb as it is, I'd recommend doing it whenever you feel like (you can reach Cathedral around 45 which is fine) but stopping once you reach Friede. Come back to her once you have +10 estus and more levels otherwise you're gonna be banging your head against a wall.
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May 4, 2017 22:38
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Since we're talking about shrine I've come to it in my trying DS2 again and I think I might just stop playing. If I don't I'm probably starting a new file. Dex weapons are getting boring. Bleed seems to kind of suck in pve. More than anything though I just hate how my character handles. The flaccid animations, comically bad tracking even when free aiming, and stiffness I guess I'll call it the game gets really temperamental about whether I pressed something as I went out of my roll detract more from the experience than tracking magic missiles or lethargic darkfire blade sweeps.
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May 4, 2017 22:38
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Internet Kraken posted:If you do the first DLC at level 80 you're gonna stroll through everything up until Friede. As dumb as it is, I'd recommend doing it whenever you feel like (you can reach Cathedral around 45 which is fine) but stopping once you reach Friede. Come back to her once you have +10 estus and more levels otherwise you're gonna be banging your head against a wall. Yeah you can do the actual area whenever you feel like grabbing the items, because honestly most of the enemies aren't a lot of fun to fight and you'll be running past anyway.
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May 4, 2017 22:40
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Internet Kraken posted:If you do the first DLC at level 80 you're gonna stroll through everything up until Friede. As dumb as it is, I'd recommend doing it whenever you feel like (you can reach Cathedral around 45 which is fine) but stopping once you reach Friede. Come back to her once you have +10 estus and more levels otherwise you're gonna be banging your head against a wall.  It's one thing I don't really like about that DLC. If you're at the level most people are comfortable beating Friede (80+ and I've even seen people struggle at 100+) you'll probably one-shot every enemy and not have a lot of fun with the rest of the DLC.
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May 4, 2017 22:40
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The DS3 DLC is probably the least fun stuff From ever made.
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May 4, 2017 22:41
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Quantum of Phallus posted:The DS3 DLC is probably the least fun stuff From ever made. DLC2 has three of the best boss fights in the series.
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May 4, 2017 22:44
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AoA is pretty and interesting but is a better example of what people complain about ds2 encounter design than ds2. Whole area is designed to have some jerk poking your rear end while his buddy distracts you.
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May 4, 2017 22:51
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Quantum of Phallus posted:The DS3 DLC is probably the least fun stuff From ever made. nah SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:AoA is pretty and interesting but is a better example of what people complain about ds2 encounter design than ds2. Whole area is designed to have some jerk poking your rear end while his buddy distracts you.
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May 4, 2017 22:53
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Augus posted:You mean the dumb things people complain about in DS2 that distract from the real issues? Sure. Yes I mean the complaints that are complaints that people have. If anything I was already agreeing with you because I was saying there was a better example of that sort of problem Dodging missiles while trying to fight some other guy in a water level isn't my idea of a good time but I don't think it's an inditment of the game's design. poo poo I actually like the main Iron Keep room people will bitch about.
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May 4, 2017 23:05
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Yes I mean the complaints that are complaints that people have. If anything I was already agreeing with you because I was saying there was a better example of that sort of problem I don't complain about any of these things because they aren't problems. Getting distracted and poked in the rear end isn't a problem, it just means you shouldn't get distracted.
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May 4, 2017 23:09
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For the first DLC the way I did it was go in as soon as I could, and when I'd hit a wall I'd go do something in the main game for a while and then come back when I felt ready. Wish I was good enough to take on Friede earlier because I was doing a dex int build and her weapon fits that so well.
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May 4, 2017 23:16
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The ghost summoning dudes ... respawn?
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May 4, 2017 23:17
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Augus posted:I don't complain about any of these things because they aren't problems. Getting distracted and poked in the rear end isn't a problem, it just means you shouldn't get distracted. Right just run past all the wolves then you won't be busy fighting any wolves for any wolves to attack you
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May 4, 2017 23:19
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Your Computer posted:It's hilariously bad and janky in DS1 but it's perfectly fine and fun to use in DS2 and DS3. It's a great tool to have, too! One of Bloodborne's defining features is "here's a gun"!
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May 4, 2017 23:21
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