|
Losing to one card in limited is a feel bad.
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 19:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 15:54 |
|
|
So here's what might be an odd question - do any of you know of any write ups or (even better) videos of rotisserie drafts? I know Shotgun Lotus did their Vintage Rotisserie Drafts a few years ago, and those were super fun to watch. Have other people streamed/filmed such? Googling mostly turns up nothing, or just articles explaining what the format is, so I was wondering if anyone has watched/read write ups of such drafts.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
Eela6 posted:(I consider the . . . red trial to be nearly as hard to beat) – The MTG Thread, 2017 Siivola fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:I remember the last time we had a 5 mana 4/4 flyer with haste. I think it's in a fine position for constructed. What's weird is the lack of counter play. As mentioned before, you can't even have it shoot itself due to the "an opponent controls" clause. Or clone it and kill the original due to the no dragon cause. For limited, the only dragon so far is actually Glorybringer. If they'd put it as "target creature without flying" that'd be really good and still allow blocking. If they had the damage happen after combat, okay (but likely difficult to word). They could have had it deal damage equal to its power, allowing counter play in the form of Stinging Shot and Numbing Wraps while allowing it to be boosted by buffs. Add to this that there's only 3 fliers that survives the firebreathing and those are Kefnet the Mindful, Glyph Keeper, and Seraph of the Sun. Kefnet is really conditional for limited, Glyph Keeper is a huge bomb in its own right, and Seraph costs 7 in a 15-16 land format. Again, I enjoy Amonkhet. I think it's got a lot to offer, and drafting it is genuinely a blast. I'm glad that cards like Glorybringer exist. It's simply frustrating that Glorybringer exists as printed because it will act as a lottery. It's a card you have to pick. If it's P1P1 you're now in red. If it's P3P1 and you're not in red you have to hate draft it because it's that powerful. Out of 2 drafts and the prerelease, I'm 8-2 for matches, and 100% of the matches I've lost were from Glorybringer hitting the table. One of those drafts I had Glorybringer and all three of us agreed it's ridiculous on your side. It feels like drafting monoblue faeries back in Lorwyn but with less thinking. Wow I've typed way too many words over this dragon.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Jenx posted:So here's what might be an odd question - do any of you know of any write ups or (even better) videos of rotisserie drafts? I know Shotgun Lotus did their Vintage Rotisserie Drafts a few years ago, and those were super fun to watch. Have other people streamed/filmed such? Googling mostly turns up nothing, or just articles explaining what the format is, so I was wondering if anyone has watched/read write ups of such drafts. I don't have any material for you, but I just wanted to echo that that VRD was the coolest thing in magic in a long time.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
clamiam45 posted:I don't have any material for you, but I just wanted to echo that that VRD was the coolest thing in magic in a long time. I did find this thing when digging around in Google, however there are no videos on their twitch channel, and their YouTube channel only has the old drafts from 2 years ago. So I've no idea what the deal is with them.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
Siivola posted:Could you give a tl;dr? Cycling being as ubiquitous as it is leads to less variance, which leads to games feeling repetitive sooner. This also extends to deckbuilding as the usual costs associated with a certain archetype are diminished. Even aggro slanted decks can afford a copy of the cycling wurm. On the opposite spectrum, you don't need to be all in aggro to run a threaten anymore. Marshall in particular doesn't like that high risk high reward cards lose their normally significant downsides, because it takes away from the challenge of deck building and leads to unsatisfying losses (you usually lose to threaten less often because it's a bad card in most situations). Same goes for answer cards being main deckable. He doesn't like losing his sandwurm convergence game 1 to a cycling disenchant. I haven't finished the episode yet.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:15
|
|
|
Those... Sound like positive things? "Oh no my bomb card got answered" is pretty  a complaint.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:33
|
|
|
Quality article from Brad Nelson http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35053_Dont-Play-Their-Game.html (not engaging in "paywall/decklists to sell cards" etc, etc .. we all know) Maybe I am slow or this just impressed me as I am working on this exact problem for Saturday, but I thought it was a good article.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
It's an 8 mana card. It's not an auto include and requires building your deck a certain way to get the pay off. That said, that was the complaint that resonated with me the least, even if I agree it's a problem.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:It's an 8 mana card. It's not an auto include and requires building your deck a certain way to get the pay off. They've learned from the "oops" that was the Lost in the Woods g2 deck. Which, don't get me wrong, siding into that deck at prereleases was hilarious. Without cycling answers they couldn't print an enchantment that says "you lose" to a fair spread of limited decks. Also cycling should be evergreen. Anyone complaining about cycling being a mechanic is already wrong.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:54
|
|
|
Siivola posted:Those... Sound like positive things? "Oh no my bomb card got answered" is pretty His point is that putting a narrow/conditional card in your deck (disenchant, plummet, trumpet blast, threaten, force spike, etc) is a risk and that deck building decisions should have consequences. But with cycling, those same cards (forsake the worldly, stinging shot, pursue glory, limits of solidarity, censor, etc) can be in your deck without consequence. You can put the "wrong" card in your deck and not get punished for it. On top of that, he argues that those cards existing makes game 1s higher in variance because your build around enchantment gets dunked on by a main deck Forsake the Worldly that would never be there if it didn't have cycling and now you don't even have a game plan.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 21:59
|
|
|
PJOmega posted:Also cycling should be evergreen.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 22:07
|
|
|
Good answers should be evergreen.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 22:16
|
|
|
clamiam45 posted:Good answers should be evergreen. look at this guy who wants green to have everything  clearly, good answers should be everred
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
Btw, mono black and b/w zombies is a real deck. The budgest b/w version without relentless and lily is what I would play if I was to suggest a deck to someone. The pushes are the only expensive card that is basically mandatory.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Btw, mono black and b/w zombies is a real deck. The budgest b/w version without relentless and lily is what I would play if I was to suggest a deck to someone. The pushes are the only expensive card that is basically mandatory. Yeah I've bought up most of the zombie stuff since it was all relatively cheap (besides Relentless Dead and Lili cause I'm not about to spend that on those cards) and it's pretty fun too.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 22:58
|
|
|
Owen and Cuneo are stream mtg puzzlequest for some reason now. https://www.twitch.tv/pantheonmagic
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:07
|
|
|
Sickening posted:Btw, mono black and b/w zombies is a real deck. The budgest b/w version without relentless and lily is what I would play if I was to suggest a deck to someone. The pushes are the only expensive card that is basically mandatory. Can you share a list? I like having a cheap deck for when a friend wants to come join.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:09
|
|
|
Bugsy posted:Owen and Cuneo are stream mtg puzzlequest for some reason now. ~Sponsored Content~ https://d3go.com/teampuzzlequest-and-teamd3go/
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:35
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:His point is that putting a narrow/conditional card in your deck (disenchant, plummet, trumpet blast, threaten, force spike, etc) is a risk and that deck building decisions should have consequences. But with cycling, those same cards (forsake the worldly, stinging shot, pursue glory, limits of solidarity, censor, etc) can be in your deck without consequence. You can put the "wrong" card in your deck and not get punished for it. And what the gently caress does "variance" even mean any more? Because I'm pretty sure "wah wah my deck got blown out because I didn't think anyone would actually maindeck hate for it" is not that.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
Maindeckable hate is a good thing because it stops game 1's from being impossible blowouts
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
Variance is "I didn't expect a thing and then the thing happened and I lost." Playing to your outs is "I didn't expect a thing and then the thing happened and I won."
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:57
|
|
|
PJOmega posted:Can you share a list? I like having a cheap deck for when a friend wants to come join. I will put together a list later today. Both have small pros and cons. I am playing mono black because 24 swamps is just a thing of beauty.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
I talked to some TCG (not magic) designers about cycling being evergreen and their argument against was basically there's an implicit cost to putting words on cards and that cost outweighed the value for most players because most players don't want to cycle their cool card and so don't look at it as upside. I don't know that I buy this because part of that cost seems to be that it's not evergreen, and I don't know why you couldn't just stick it on various narrow answers, but there you go.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:His point is that putting a narrow/conditional card in your deck (disenchant, plummet, trumpet blast, threaten, force spike, etc) is a risk and that deck building decisions should have consequences. But with cycling, those same cards (forsake the worldly, stinging shot, pursue glory, limits of solidarity, censor, etc) can be in your deck without consequence. You can put the "wrong" card in your deck and not get punished for it. oh no, trap cards arent actually traps and I have to actually evaluate them instead of ignoring a bunch of chaff in every pack 
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:oh no, trap cards arent actually traps and I have to actually evaluate them instead of ignoring a bunch of chaff in every pack You don't understand. You can destroy an artifact OR a land! But this other card that is the same card but you can also cycle it away when it's not needed is bad because who would want to get rid of this awesome spell?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:01
|
|
|
black potus posted:I talked to some TCG (not magic) designers about cycling being evergreen and their argument against was basically there's an implicit cost to putting words on cards and that cost outweighed the value for most players because most players don't want to cycle their cool card and so don't look at it as upside. I don't know that I buy this because part of that cost seems to be that it's not evergreen, and I don't know why you couldn't just stick it on various narrow answers, but there you go. I can fully understand this, I know casual players that would never see cycling on a 5 mana creature they pull turn 2 with screw a good thing, it would just be feel bads when they have to discard a "good card"
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:04
|
|
|
black potus posted:I talked to some TCG (not magic) designers about cycling being evergreen and their argument against was basically there's an implicit cost to putting words on cards and that cost outweighed the value for most players because most players don't want to cycle their cool card and so don't look at it as upside. I don't know that I buy this because part of that cost seems to be that it's not evergreen, and I don't know why you couldn't just stick it on various narrow answers, but there you go. I actually do agree with this point because the idea of a card being cool because you have the option of throwing it away if you don't need it is a bit of a silly concept. It also tends to result in the non-cycling mode of the card being weakened so the card ends up less exciting than it might've been developed without cycling. On the other hand gently caress it it makes the game so much better TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:10
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:oh no, trap cards arent actually traps and I have to actually evaluate them instead of ignoring a bunch of chaff in every pack You don't have to evaluate them at all. You just stuff em in your deck and if they're not immediately useful you cycle them.  Letting me put cards in my deck for no reason is good game play!!!!!!!!!
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:You don't have to evaluate them at all. You just stuff em in your deck and if they're not immediately useful you cycle them. action in your deck is a limited resource and cycling is a very real cost. put too much nonsense in your deck and you'll end up flooding out
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
I'm very grateful for cycling in the 30-card sealed league that starts with three packs. It saved me from playing two of those life gain shrines.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:action in your deck is a limited resource and cycling is a very real cost. put too much nonsense in your deck and you'll end up flooding out Play less land, it works itself out. 
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:action in your deck is a limited resource and cycling is a very real cost. put too much nonsense in your deck and you'll end up flooding out
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:23
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:action in your deck is a limited resource and cycling is a very real cost. put too much nonsense in your deck and you'll end up flooding out LSV made the point that because of cycling he'd actually regularly play 14, 15 lands if not for the fact that he'd get color screwed.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:24
|
|
|
Playing 15 land and relying on cycling to hit your land drops is a stupid trap of a strategy in this format and will get you killed vs a lot of decks.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
If I used the hypergeometric calculator right, on the draw you're 7% less likely (83% v 90%) to hit your 3rd land drop with 15 lands instead of 17, w/o factoring in cycling. On the play it's worse (10% difference).
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 01:06
|
|
Display deck statistics
|
Scry is more than enough for being the evergreen draw smoothing mechanic. WotC just refuses to use it on more than a couple nonblue cards each set.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 15:54 |
|
|
whydirt posted:Scry is more than enough for being the evergreen draw smoothing mechanic. WotC just refuses to use it on more than a couple nonblue cards each set. They actually refuse to use it on more than a couple cards each set period while also slanting towards the higher rarities. In addition, yes, the vast majority are blue. BFZ has 5 cards with scry, 3 at unc and 2 at rare OGW has 3 cards with scry, 1 at common and 2 at rare SOI has 2 cards with scry, 1 at rare and 1 at mythic EMN has 1 card with scry, at unc KLD has 10 cards with scry, 4 at common, 5 at uncommon, and 1 at mythic AER has 4 cards with scry, 2 at common, 1 at uncommon, and 1 at rare AKH has 3 cards with scry, 1 at rare and 2 at mythic(although tbf there's cycling in the set) Total: 7 Commons, 12 Uncommons, 7 Rares, 4 Mythics across 7 sets. Color distribution: 1 W, 14 U, 3 B, 1 G, 1 UG, 1 WB, 1 UB, 1 UR, 1 BG, 1 RW, 3 Colorless(counting Glassblower's Puzzleknot and Watchful Automaton as blue) Basically it's only really performed a role as a limited smoothing mechanic in Kaladesh itself at best. I'm not sure why it shows up so infrequently, but I'd guess that wotc wants a higher level of randomness in the game than we do.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 02:06
|
|