|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:On one hand, cool, on the other hand, it seems pretty strange from a flavor perspective that the aristocratic ideas would decrease autonomy or increase absolutism. Specifically, I wonder how increasing the power of the local nobility is supposed to reduce autonomy and increase centralization. In the move towards Absolutism, one of the ways that the sovereign would reduce the power of the nobility was to essentially subvert the traditional hierarchy of feudalism by going directly to minor local lords instead of through the layers of fealty between them, cutting out the middle man. It replaces a relatively small number of powerful nobles with a large number of individually uninfluential ones who are more dependent on the good will of their king for their position. It's a similar process to that which occurred around early Imperial China, where the aristocracy was slowly pushed out of governance in favor of a scholar-bureaucrat class who owed their position directly to the pleasure of the emperor (this was a major tenant of Legalism).
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:On one hand, cool, on the other hand, it seems pretty strange from a flavor perspective that the aristocratic ideas would decrease autonomy or increase absolutism. Specifically, I wonder how increasing the power of the local nobility is supposed to reduce autonomy and increase centralization. I'm more excited about it not being hostile core creation "bonus" anymore.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
Has anyone used Espionage since they revamped it for the Nth time?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
I've been really tempted to use it on several occasions. It's main drawback, like most other groups, is that it's not part of the holy trinity of Administrative/Influence/Quantity. Being able to forge claims more efficiently would be really great, but becomes useless once you get access to advanced CBs or you have Deus Vult (despite the change, Religious is still worth taking just for DV).
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 01:43
|
|
|
I've always kind of wanted to port hassassins over and take espionage and see what fuckery I could get up to, but all the interesting espionage mechanics seem to be too late-game to really get any use out of it unless you're planning on staying tiny for a few centuries.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
They put most of the cool stuff into the generic diplo techs which was kind of lame. I don't honestly know if there's ever a way to buff espionage satisfactorily while still giving it some semblance of espionage theme. The same for naval. The game too fundamentally favors a different style of play for them to ever matter, you could double their bonuses and that wouldn't change.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
Maybe make it so taking espionage lets you access the diplo tech things earlier? I don't know how they would incentivize it after those options unlock through tech though.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
I don't know what the deal is with people's obsessions over espionage systems in strategy games, to be honest. They are almost always really minor factors in the eras being portrayed in the grand scheme of things, and only ever serve to bog the games down with tedious design elements. I don't know if I've ever played a game with an espionage system that was actually really fun. At best those systems are sort of shoved in a corner where they are unintrusive and don't do much, and at worst they end up tediously micromanagey, and actually dominate the game's design with its unfun bullshit as a result. EU4 is somewhere in the middle. I don't like how you have to engage in the espionage system to fabricate claims, and how that's practically the only thing that system is good for. Though the worst thing they can do is move other critical game features over to it. I just hope that for EU5, they decide on no espionage system whatsoever. Find other ways to implement the most important stuff (claims, mainly).
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
It works really, really well in HOI4. Essentially you have 2 sets of technologies- encryption and decryption. One keeps your stuff hidden better, the other lets you see other peoples' stuff more, and you need to make sure your decryption is high enough relative to their encryption to be able to make out ledger information on how many tanks and planes and poo poo they have, the state of their economy and so on. None of the annoying "now you have +2 unrest everywhere" bullshit but still extremely helpful. They could probably do something similar in EU4 really. Espionage could let you see a more accurate ledger, and so be very helpful for you to choose when to pick fights.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:I'm more excited about it not being hostile core creation "bonus" anymore. I think the only reason that idea existed was to be a big "gently caress you" to anyone that declared war on you in multiplayer.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:43
|
|
|
Koramei posted:It works really, really well in HOI4. Essentially you have 2 sets of technologies- encryption and decryption. One keeps your stuff hidden better, the other lets you see other peoples' stuff more, and you need to make sure your decryption is high enough relative to their encryption to be able to make out ledger information on how many tanks and planes and poo poo they have, the state of their economy and so on. If it's just an abstracted modifier somewhere, then cool. That barely even qualifies as a gameplay system. I was pretty happy to see HoI4 without detailed espionage.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
It has a pretty huge effect on gameplay, is the thing, since you need it to see how strong your opponents are. But it's just in a really unintrusive way.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 04:54
|
|
|
Alright, anyone else getting a string of bizarrely old heirs? It's been like 4 rulers in a role that have heirs just a couple of years younger than themselves, meaning I'm taking Stability hits pretty much nonstop. Is it just my bad luck or did they change an algorithm to favor brothers/cousins and so on?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 06:12
|
|
|
It's 1630ish and I'm doing Aragon->Spain->Byzantium, trying to get Mare Nostrum. There are no Ottomans anymore; I'm missing: - Middle east and Egypt (all owned by Mamluks) - 2 Balkan provinces - Wien - Northern Black Sea coast (basically Crimea), owned by Theodoro and Genoa (currently being invaded by Russia) - France - London+Yorkshire, - Zeeland - 6-provinces Portugal - all of northern Italy except for Venice's state and Umbria. Think there's MIlan, Savoy, Genoa, Papal States and Siena left. Took Influence, Admin, Humanist, Quality and Offensive. I have no CNs because Castile decided they really needed Influence and Economic ideas. Entire north Africa is my catholic vassal, except for Egypt, and being annexxed. I'm allied to France, who are intact but didn't blob much in Europe (maybe a couple provinces from Savoy), Brandenburg (close to getting Prussia, looks like), Lithuania (not PU'd), the only other big player and rival of mine is Russia; am I still on track for the achievement? Challenges I see: going to war with Russia (I believe they're allied to Great Britain), breaking France up enough. What are my next steps?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 07:09
|
|
|
No, John. You are the Ottomans
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 07:43
|
|
|
Espionage could decrease enemy troop movement speed or increase their attrition while in your lands, decrease the number of defenders when sieging, instantly alert you when rivals are trying to forge claims on you, increase shock damage by simulating the obfuscating of your troop count and positions during combat... There's a ton of stuff you could do that keeps the theme, without hammering unavoidable +2 unrest nonsense down your throat.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 09:13
|
|
|
I finally want to do an HRE run. Austria still the best for a first timer I guess? What's a decent general strategy? I never bothered with the HRE mechanics in 500 hours of playtime 
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 09:57
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:I finally want to do an HRE run. Austria still the best for a first timer I guess? What's a decent general strategy? I never bothered with the HRE mechanics in 500 hours of playtime Read up on the Burgundian inheritance and get it. Keep northern Italy in the hre. Keep peace in the empire and nip the Reformation in the bud immediately so you can pass all the reforms (except the last one, at least for a while) and become death, destroyer of worlds. Diplo/influence are good, same with religious to try and nullify the Reformation. Get the Pu with Hungary for sure, and Bohemia as well. You need to get at least one specific Hungarian province to get the Pu event... Look it up in the wiki. Hmm... Yeah, try and eat Croatia and the rest of the Balkans to expand the empire. Eat France if they show any weakness. Austria hre game is super fun.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 10:38
|
|
|
TorakFade posted:I finally want to do an HRE run. Austria still the best for a first timer I guess? What's a decent general strategy? I never bothered with the HRE mechanics in 500 hours of playtime  never plays in the HRE bro. I was asking all sorts of dumb questions about being Emperor as Spain because I forced it to happen but then had no idea what to do. It was great I was useless because it was the 1600s and the Reformation broke everything.Re: Espionage chat: I think they need to move the +2 Unrest/Slandered Merchants/Crippled Recruitment stuff back into Espionage-only territory. They can get annoying late game when all of your rivals and their vassals are doing each and everyone of them to you non-stop, which is pretty a-historical (from a gameplay sense) and is also not fun gameplay.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 11:19
|
|
|
i don't know if they fixed it but if you set the start date to 1806 and then back to the 1444 historical start, venice will be in the hre and you just have to take the papal state (keep their land and add it to the hre but return roma so they become a prince). then force a pu on bohemia and get the hungary event pu. don't force princes to return land unless it would result in a new prince. when you go to war to return land, see if you can get them to release opms that result in a new prince. there's a few of these in italy force convert the opm that gets protestantism and hope the other provinces that get cors are like lothian and stockholm to minimize damage take diplomatic ideas
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 11:25
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:You need to get at least one specific Hungarian province to get the Pu event... Look it up in the wiki. i don't think this is true ?? unless it's a 1.21 thing
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 11:32
|
|
|
Did they change the shadow kingdom lately? Because it was always better to let Italy leave the HRE: cheaper to take those incredibly highly developed lands for yourself while also giving you a heap of provinces to re-add to the HRE for IA boosting. Is that not the case anymore? I haven't played since the expansion though so 
Allyn fucked around with this message at 12:34 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 11:42
|
|
|
 This game is weird and I love it.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 12:30
|
|
|
Detheros posted:
What's going on down below Tabarestan there?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 12:42
|
|
|
Maybe espionage could support your expansion in some way by making claims more powerful or letting you influence other people's opinion more to shatter alliances / prevent coalitions.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:03
|
|
|
skasion posted:What's going on down below Tabarestan there?  
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:25
|
|
|
I couldn't really get into this when I first played it, way back, but since then, uh, all of the DLC has come out. How drastically has that improved the game? I like Stellaris and CK2 just fine.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:45
|
|
|
Veryslightlymad posted:I couldn't really get into this when I first played it, way back, but since then, uh, all of the DLC has come out. I find EU4 to be the superior game of the three, with Stellaris having the potential to be equal in a DLC or 3. CK2 I find too bloated at the moment. Most of EU4 DLC is a must buy, I would say, especially Common Sense and Art of War. I'm enjoying the eras added in Mandate of Heaven.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:48
|
|
|
oddium posted:i don't think this is true ?? unless it's a 1.21 thing I don't have time to look up the event for you, but it's been like that for a while. Haven't checked on 1.2 and on.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
canepazzo posted:I find EU4 to be the superior game of the three, with Stellaris having the potential to be equal in a DLC or 3. CK2 I find too bloated at the moment. I think is EU4 is pretty drat near being as bloated as CK2 Both have the problem of each DLC/major patch adding yet more additional systems that usually feel tackled on and poorly integrated with the rest of the game Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 14:07 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:I don't have time to look up the event for you, but it's been like that for a while. Haven't checked on 1.2 and on. i don't know which event you mean, to get the hungarian pu as austria you need two events to fire in hungary, the first where they take a habsburg over hunyadi, and then where they take a pu over the other king diet of whenever posted:This event fires only once. matyas corvinus posted:This event fires only once.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 14:22
|
|
|
Elias_Maluco posted:I think is EU4 is pretty drat near being as bloated as CK2 I dunno, while they have the same amount of DLC roughly, I find that CK2 additions to be way more varied and random, making a start very overwhelming. EU4 has many systems too but I find them to be much more homogeneous, and some of them you pretty much ignore (like sailors) without consequence (unless you're an OPM).
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 14:29
|
|
|
Well, exactly. A system you can almost certainly ignore (like sailors and, mostly, corruption) is pure bloat
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 14:41
|
|
|
oddium posted:i don't know which event you mean, to get the hungarian pu as austria you need two events to fire in hungary, the first where they take a habsburg over hunyadi, and then where they take a pu over the other king Could be they were thinking of the "The Decline of Hungary" mission which Austria can get under the following circumstances: quote:Triggers So it's not that Austria needs to take a specific province, but Hungary needs to lose at least one province from certain regions. Drakhoran fucked around with this message at 15:19 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 15:17
|
|
|
Is it worth continuing to colonize provinces within the area claimed by your colonial nation, or is it better to leave them to their own devices and focus on colonizing a different territory? I see that I profit through tariffs by feeding the CN more provinces, but don't know if I could be doing something more profitable with my colonists and military. And I'm assuming there's also a risk of giving them enough power that they'll want independence.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 17:12
|
|
|
snoremac posted:Is it worth continuing to colonize provinces within the area claimed by your colonial nation, or is it better to leave them to their own devices and focus on colonizing a different territory? I see that I profit through tariffs by feeding the CN more provinces, but don't know if I could be doing something more profitable with my colonists and military. And I'm assuming there's also a risk of giving them enough power that they'll want independence. Yeah, sometimes. I always make sure to lock up trade bonus provinces for my CNs, and it's a decent idea to lock up the coast in some regions, but sometimes it's better to get a foothold in a number of regions than it is to babysit one CN. Subsidize them a bit and they'll colonize pretty well for themselves. Independence is still really easy to avoid by developing their provinces whenever it gets too high.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
Is there a good source for telling me how to play this game? I did the tutorials (lol Paradox tutorials) and I'm doing ok as Portugal: I'm bestest buddies with Spain and I'm starting to slowly catch up to them economically after colonizing all over the Atlantic and crushing Morocco. But I still have no idea what "optimal" play looks like and I'm getting overwhelmed with all of the different systems to keep track of. I learned how to play CK2 from Let's Plays so anything like that that covers the basics and explains what's going on would be nice.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 17:35
|
|
|
Litany Unheard posted:Is there a good source for telling me how to play this game? I did the tutorials (lol Paradox tutorials) and I'm doing ok as Portugal: I'm bestest buddies with Spain and I'm starting to slowly catch up to them economically after colonizing all over the Atlantic and crushing Morocco.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 17:42
|
|
|
Thanks to something someone posted on the official forum I finally have an objective for my next game: going on a rediculous culture conversion spree as Qing. In theory spending dip points on culture conversions to Manchu is actually a fairly sensible use of resources as you end up with tons of troops which don't require manpower to reinforce on top of getting 10% discipline and same culture benefits.
RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 12:33 |
|
|
Drakhoran posted:Could be they were thinking of the "The Decline of Hungary" mission which Austria can get under the following circumstances: Yes, I was talking about the mission. Just because it's one you can control the outcome of getting. I realize Austria doesn't need to take the province, it's just easier to do it yourself instead of hoping someone else does.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:35
|
|