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Tories won Cambridge against the lib dems. The guy who lost for us in the West Midlands has said that people in the centre of birmingham think that labour has lost touch with "Labour Values" and I don't understand what those values could possibly be. What has it lost touch with? Other than "Being an english nationalist" which seems to be all that matters now. I do hear that a lot, that Labour only "stands up for foreigners" and all sorts.
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May 5, 2017 18:19
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jBrereton posted:Corbyn is just incapable. I wanted him to be great, but he is very poor at handling the media, he has not been a good or persuasive leader of his own party, and the reason that he does so badly in the polls is because he is bad at his job. I mean the current government is so incredibly inept that it beggars belief. The PM is a moron. The Brexit secretary is workshy. But there is no coherent, optimistic, well-delivered counternarrative to "Trust in Tess", and his shadow cabinet is a joke. Corbyn's bad at handling the media, I don't think anyone would argue with that, but the fact is his own party has been publicly undermining him from the beginning - and it doesn't matter how many were involved, it's the amount of coverage they get and how they affect public opinion. They explicitly set out to destroy his public reputation and to paint the party as weak and ineffective under his leadership, to try and make his position untenable and force him out. It was a deliberate act of sabotage (whether you think it was justified or not) and the current perception of Labour is heavily down to that coverage painting Labour dysfunctional. That was entirely the point of all this briefing and organised resignations, this was the gamble they took, and they hosed it. It would take a pretty slick politician to reverse that narrative (especially when Labour MPs keep popping up to talk poo poo) and Corbyn ain't slick, so it's always there as an angle for every interview or news item where he or Labour are mentioned And organising this media blitz directly after the EU referendum really made prospects a lot worse, especially when they went for a 'hey also Jeremy lost the referendum' attack. Brexit is the defining issue of our political generation, it's pretty much the reason this 'inept' government can completely coast on a wave of blind optimism and stubborn nationalism. It's why Theresa May has the highest popularity ratings ever, why her party has soaring approval ratings despite all the terrible poo poo they're doing at home Brexit is an incredibly powerful totem, the Tories can use it to shore up support and whip up anger at 'the enemy' in complete opposition to the facts. It would be hard for any opposition to make headway at this stage, never mind one that's actively and publicly undermined its own credibility on Brexit, and also everything else
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May 5, 2017 18:23
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Might be worth keeping an eye on whats going on with Clive Lewis. Yesterday he was campaigning through Norwich in the company of Yanis Varoufakis, not doing a formal photo shoot but making sure to be photographed by as many passer byes as possible, and in turn to make sure Yanis was photographed with the local labour councillors. This comes a couple of days after he made his comments to the press about the need to adopt a new position against May's on Brexit, a point that he's made again this afternoon. Yanis at the moment is getting a fair amount of publicity, not only in the Guardian but also in some of the Tory press - the Torygraph for example had a fairly good article on him with a nice write up on him in general. He's getting his pieces into place.
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May 5, 2017 18:32
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Still skeptical of him, he's done some good things in the past but power seeking is not a thing inclined to make me trust people.
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May 5, 2017 18:33
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Fella on Look East just now saying that he wants UKIP to remain a single issue party, but for that issue to become FGM instead. I didn't miss out the "Y" there.
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May 5, 2017 18:36
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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I did think that when he made that statement on Brexit the other day - that he is positioning himself so that his credentials on opposing Brexit are impeccable, for a potential run at the leadership post-Corbyn (no doubt betting that eventually people will begin to turn against Brexit). Either that, or he is just really worried about his seat - which is heavily pro-Remain afaik
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May 5, 2017 18:37
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HJB posted:Fella on Look East just now saying that he wants UKIP to remain a single issue party, but for that issue to become FGM instead. I didn't miss out the "Y" there. I assume they're in favour of it?
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May 5, 2017 18:38
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jabby posted:To be fair it's getting increasingly more difficult to argue for Labour in local government given that having a Labour council means you will be targeted for harsher budget cuts. Unbelievable post.
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May 5, 2017 18:39
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Steve2911 posted:I assume they're in favour of it? Totally against it, presumably because of who they assume to be the culprits.
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May 5, 2017 18:43
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serious gaylord posted:Unbelievable post. Since you're like the third person to miss my point, it was a sarcastic comment on the fact that Labour councils will suffer from greater budget cuts than their Tory counterparts.
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May 5, 2017 18:46
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HJB posted:Totally against it, presumably because of who they assume to be the culprits. OwlFancier posted:Still skeptical of him, he's done some good things in the past but power seeking is not a thing inclined to make me trust people. The trick is to get someone who has ambition to power but wider empathy, whether it's some sense of nobless oblige among the right or a sense of actual community socialism for the left.
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May 5, 2017 18:47
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serious gaylord posted:Unbelievable post. The thing (the problem) is that for some people he's right. Labour councils ARE suffering larger cuts and then people blame Labour for it when we can't do anything.
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May 5, 2017 18:49
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Election material and conversation running tally: Lib Dems 3 - a generalised flyer, personally addressed flyer, jointly addressed flyer; Tories 1 flyer; Labour 1 phone call
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May 5, 2017 18:55
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The time to raise council taxes is now, when even Tory councils in wealthy neighbourhoods are having to do it too. But still, Labour can't run on raising council taxes higher than the Tories - a large amount of very slow, steady work has gone into engineering a tax revolt politics.
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May 5, 2017 18:58
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Clive Lewis is cool and good. He's the only salvageable Labour MP who is/was in Corbyn's wing, as well as possibly Long-Bailey.
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May 5, 2017 19:01
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what about angela rayner
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May 5, 2017 19:00
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Guavanaut posted:Unfortunately in any hierarchical system you're going to need someone with a bit of ambition to power. To a degree though I still find power seeking itself to be sort of inherently untrustworthy. If they have enough other credentials to offset it that's great but I'm still not really sure where Lewis stands politically, and won't be until he's had more time to build up some consistent positions in his career. The problems of being compared to someone who's been an MP as long as Corbyn, unfortunately.
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May 5, 2017 19:02
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Sorry not sorry: https://my.mixtape.moe/qyuttl.webm She also made the point that we shouldn't go chopping and changing the leader with Brexit negotiations going on, confirming the UKIP -> Tory logic.
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May 5, 2017 19:02
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britishbornandbread posted:Clive Lewis is cool and good. He's the only salvageable Labour MP who is/was in Corbyn's wing, as well as possibly Long-Bailey. My housemate works for Rebecca. She's nice. Then again so is Corbyn!
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May 5, 2017 19:03
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jabby posted:Well, that sure was a day. If anything, people are more likely to vote tactically in the general than the locals (I know that's true in my case), which favours the Good Guys in general, and UKIP's vote share has already collapsed so it can only do so a little further in the general.
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May 5, 2017 19:07
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OwlFancier posted:Still skeptical of him, he's done some good things in the past but power seeking is not a thing inclined to make me trust people. I don't think we have the privilege of choice anymore. I'll take well-intentioned careerist if it means we finally end the national nightmare that is the Tories.
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May 5, 2017 19:08
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Regarde Aduck posted:I don't think we have the privilege of choice anymore. The wrong person won't end the nightmare, just pause it for a moment, and forestall the actual solution a little further. I don't want to see what Tory government we'd end up with after Blair 2.0, going by Thatcher to May. That said depending what options are available it makes more sense to venture a risk than to simply not participate.
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May 5, 2017 19:10
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OwlFancier posted:The wrong person won't end the nightmare, just pause it for a moment, and forestall the actual solution a little further. I don't want to see what Tory government we'd end up with after Blair 2.0, going by Thatcher to May. My main issue with Clive Lewis is that he's rebelled against Corbyn a bunch of times. I don't care about that from a loyalty issue, but it raises the question of who is going to be his core support if he wins the leadership without being an explicitly 'Corbyn selected' candidate. Who from the PLP are going to be his key backers? Corbyn only lasted this long by having just enough loyal MPs to prop him up, if Lewis doesn't have the backing of the same MPs then he only gets in by having to rely on Blairites, and they'll just kick him out and replace him with a red Tory at the first opportunity.
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May 5, 2017 19:17
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running as British Obama will probably buy him a lot of leeway from Blairites
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May 5, 2017 19:20
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jabby posted:if Lewis doesn't have the backing of the same MPs then he only gets in by having to rely on Blairites, and they'll just kick him out and replace him with a red Tory at the first opportunity. How many Blairites do you think are in the Labour party? there were only a couple dozen 'Blairite' MPs when Tony loving Blair was PM. Also, gently caress the gently caress off with this 'Red Tory' shite.
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May 5, 2017 19:23
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Well it may be that after the election you could secure a comfortable plurality of support in the labour party with a few of your close mates  But otherwise it is also possible that the election may serve as something of a death blow to careerism in the Labour party, certainly it seems like a lot of annoying people aren't standing this time. Certainly it will cause ructions either way, I wouldn't really like to try to predict how it will turn out. Though I would say that opposing Corbyn is not inherently bad, much as I like him. Lewis appears for all intent and purposes to simply be very pro remain, if that's a thing he genuinely believes in for good reasons then I can't fault him for the way he dealt with it. He has to be pro remain because of his constituency so he can't exactly shut up about it, and he didn't leave very disruptively either. That to me is, well, kind of fine, honestly. It wouldn't deter me from voting for him.
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May 5, 2017 19:23
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mediadave posted:How many Blairites do you think are in the Labour party? there were only a couple dozen 'Blairite' MPs when Tony loving Blair was PM. Don't try and bring logic into this meltdown.
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May 5, 2017 19:26
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mediadave posted:How many Blairites do you think are in the Labour party? there were only a couple dozen 'Blairite' MPs when Tony loving Blair was PM. You can assume I'm using Blairite as a catch-all term for MPs who rebelled against Corbyn. And you gently caress off, if they can call themselves 'Blue Labour' then I can call them Red Tories. OwlFancier posted:Well it may be that after the election you could secure a comfortable plurality of support in the labour party with a few of your close mates He also had a (supposed) meltdown over Trident, and rather pointlessly rebelled over calling the snap election. I'm not anti-Lewis at all and he would probably be a good leader, I just can't see yet another about-face on Brexit playing well with the electorate and I'm suspicious of how long he would last in the job without having the backing of Corbyn's core of MPs. jabby fucked around with this message at 19:27 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 19:25
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jabby posted:You can assume I'm using Blairite as a catch-all term for MPs who rebelled against Corbyn. Blue Labour was Ed Miliband's lot EDIT: Removed needless curse word. Passions are running high. mediadave fucked around with this message at 19:28 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 19:25
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Blairites and Blue Labour did not get along very well.
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May 5, 2017 19:28
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I mean there is that one guy who literally said he'd vote for the tories if it came down to him. He might be a red tory.
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May 5, 2017 19:29
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Clive Lewis is polished and has name recognition, he'd breeze through a leadership vote. I don't know that much about him or his stances tbh, if the UKMT thinks he's not too bad then he's probably a shoe-in for next leader.
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May 5, 2017 19:28
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Hoops posted:Clive Lewis is polished and has name recognition, he'd breeze through a leadership vote. He seems pretty lefty, mostly he just hasn't been an MP very long so it's hard to really know where he stands or whether he'd be open to changing his position given provocation.
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May 5, 2017 19:29
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Describes himself as "a proud socialist" Used to be in the army Nominated Corbyn for leadership but isn't seen as one of "his guys" Very Pro-Remain Used to be a journalist so can work the lefty and centrist papers Black but not too black Seems like he's on to a winner. How tall is he? Edit: quote:In April 2015, Lewis commented in an interview for the New Statesman (in jest), in response to a question on whether he was taking his upcoming victory for granted, he would only lose if he was "caught with [his] pants down behind a goat with Ed Miliband at the other end". He subsequently apologised for the remark, saying he was "sincerely sorry" if anyone had been offended by the comment. Hoops fucked around with this message at 19:38 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 19:35
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Happened across the local Unison newsletter while I was Turns out the local council (where I work) are trying to privatise local nurseries under the interesting term of 're-provide'. When nursery staff tried to protest outside of work hours, they were threatened with the sack by some Director idiot at the Council. This is a Labour council we're talking about. I think the rot probably goes quite deep in a lot of places.
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May 5, 2017 19:41
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Hoops posted:Describes himself as "a proud socialist" Dunno how tall he is but I think he's handsome so if it's looks you're going for I would say that's a plus. He would certainly make a better candidate than any of the rest of the 2015 lot.
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May 5, 2017 19:44
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I don't want an ex soldier running the country
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May 5, 2017 19:47
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Hoops posted:Describes himself as "a proud socialist" Like in your edit he has tweeted a few questionable things that are funny but not the sort of funny that the country would like.
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May 5, 2017 19:49
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the boldest of bold predictions: he'd pledge party unification and healing divides, then use Brexit as hammer to keep a stable of Momentum and Blairite and Fabian endorsements on side. the act of doing so will trigger battles within Momentum and Progress types, which will present opportunities for the new Labour leader to engineer a factional coalition in his own favour. whether or not Leader Lewis pulls it off is anyone's guess. he won't have premiership to distract him for a while, certainly. he has the advantage that Bremaining is popular amongst party members and committee machinery, even if it's not very (ahem) Electable at large - however, the Labour right is willing to forgive such unelectability if it means waving the banner of liberal internationalism (no surprise there).
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May 5, 2017 19:49
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JFairfax posted:I don't want an ex soldier running the country Ordinarily I would agree but I'm not aware of him having any particularly militarist tendencies and an ex soldier could be preferable to non-soldiers who are very keen on making lots more ex (dead) soldiers in interventionist wars.
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May 5, 2017 19:48
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