|
JFairfax posted:I don't want an ex soldier running the country
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 05:23 |
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Ordinarily I would agree but I'm not aware of him having any particularly militarist tendencies and an ex soldier could be preferable to non-soldiers who are very keen on making lots more ex (dead) soldiers in interventionist wars. Yeah, there's two ways ex-soldiers can go - authoritarian hard-right lunatic or pacifist, socially-conscious lefty. He seems to be the latter variety.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, there's two ways ex-soldiers can go - authoritarian hard-right lunatic or pacifist, socially-conscious lefty. He seems to be the latter variety. Yes yes, only two possible outcomes.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:54
|
|
|
Hoops posted:It's one less angle to hit him with. He's hard, he's down to earth, he's not some Islington fairyboy or pig-loving Eton degenerate. Loads of people eat that stuff up. Though, uh, I would hope that does not become a substantial advertising point because if you're advertising that you're already making things worse.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
There's as many kinds of soldier as there are kinds of people, a soldier is just a worker with a rifle. Troops, on the other hand...
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, there's two ways ex-soldiers can go - authoritarian hard-right lunatic or pacifist, socially-conscious lefty. He seems to be the latter variety. He did say this and that.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:57
|
|
|
Hoops posted:Describes himself as "a proud socialist" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ical-dunce.html quote:A former BBC boss last night demanded an apology from a Labour MP who claimed he was denied the chance to be a BBC presenter because of ‘racism’. If I remember correctly that knowledge test was something like "name the MP of the area you are supposed to be the political reporter for".
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 19:59
|
|
|
Apparently he was TA not regular. ie a big fat goony COD fan who just wanted to shoot muslims on the weekend, and not a proper hard army man.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:00
|
|
|
ronya posted:He did say this and that. Trident I don't entirely count as militarist because it's not like you can actually use it to invade people. It's stupid, but it's stupid in a different way and kind of a non-issue kind of stupid as well in a lot of ways. As to the other part, ehhh, he is correct in that you can't realistically have a military where you tell people to go and shoot guns in urban environments and then complain when civilians get shot even if people followed the rules set out by the army. You could question why the hell the army is there in the first place, or whether the rules are good enough, or whether the concept of armed intervention is justifiable at all, but specifically going after soldiers who are following the rules of engagement is a rather misplaced way to attack the use of military force. dispatch_async posted:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ical-dunce.html "I recognize myself as being someone who people think is racist but I am not racist so you need to apologize for me outing myself as a racist-appearing person." is a loving weird position to take. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:04 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:01
|
|
|
Tortuga posted:Apparently he was TA not regular. ie a big fat goony COD fan who just wanted to shoot muslims on the weekend, and not a proper hard army man. Mmm keep going I'm almost there
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
who you call big fat goon, i have over 10k confirmed kills on call of duty u idiot
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Trident I don't entirely count as militarist because it's not like you can actually use it to invade people. It's stupid, but it's stupid in a different way and kind of a non-issue kind of stupid as well in a lot of ways. It's more of a time-and-place positioning on the Labour pacifist spectrum. Note the dates.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Blair's position is apparently "no investigations ever britane troops always right" whereas Lewis does state that investigations are fine but that they should be the end of the matter if the person is cleared. And given that it's, well, loving Blair who might have a reason to dislike the idea of people investigating war crimes, he's a loving twat while Lewis is, even if I don't entirely agree with him, apparently capable of putting a bit of thought into his responses which is a rather rare thing nowadays.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:08
|
|
|
I feel like you are perhaps too charitable here - it reads like a politician politicking to me which is not, you know, in itself bad this is not the first time that we've disagreed over how honestly politicians hold a belief, I note
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:13
|
|
|
Some politicians, when they politick, sound like idiots. Lewis, and Corbyn, don't. It could be that they're all simply lying and I wouldn't really have a way of knowing but as I don't exist in a state of perpetual paralysis because of the inherent unknowability of the nature of the world around me, I'm OK with voting for someone because they, unlike a lot of their peers, do not appear to be an idiot. It could be argued that if a thing consistently produces positions that can pass for intelligent, the thing itself, is passably intelligent. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:18 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Who's a younger more vibrant socialist that can replace Jeza? Or does Labour have to go back to being neoliberal warmongers again? edit: \/\/\/ sorry, I'm tired and didn't read all the above posts. Lewis sounds really good but not too enthusiastic for a leadership spot. breadshaped fucked around with this message at 20:24 on May 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:20
|
|
|
We're currently talking about one.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:21
|
|
|
Bedshaped posted:Who's a younger more vibrant socialist that can replace Jeza? Or does Labour have to go back to being neoliberal warmongers again? Uh, this dude covers covers both bases and some
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
mediadave posted:Blue Labour was Ed Miliband's lot David Miliband's lot, not Ed Miliband.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:24
|
|
|
Lewis fails one test, which is being a woman. What do people think about Long-Bailey? I thought she did well on Question Time yesterday, she follows the current line on Brexit, and she's more likely to gain automatic support from the Corbyn clan of MPs. I'd probably vote for her over Lewis if it came to a head-to-head.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:31
|
|
|
Genuinely don't know anything about her, would be nice to have two possible options.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:36
|
|
|
Looks weak. Head's too small.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:37
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Genuinely don't know anything about her, would be nice to have two possible options. My housemate works for her. She's nice. And she's pretty left wing. I don't know if people would accept her as a leader because she's not shouty and in your face though. And doesn't have a deep voice.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:41
|
|
|
Taear posted:The idea of Libdem or Green voters making the Tories their second preference absolutely baffles me. It's like saying "I'll vote for Die Linke or I'll vote for the Nazis", it just doesn't make sense. It does make sense. LibDem support collapsed after they went into coalition with the Tories. The remaining rump is obviously going to be those most comfy with conservatism. The Greens slumped after Corbyn got elected and there was suddenly a left party with a better chance of winning seats. Their remaining support is likely to be those most comfy with conservatism. Obviously the need to vote tactically is a countervailing factor in some cases, but not a huge one, as the continuing poor LibDem performance shows.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:43
|
|
|
Taear posted:I don't know if people would accept her as a leader because she's not shouty and in your face though. And doesn't have a deep voice. I was listening to Emily Thornberry on the radio the other day and realised she has an incredibly good voice. Seriously, it's like velvet dipped in chocolate.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
jabby posted:Lewis fails one test, which is being a woman. What do people think about Long-Bailey? Same, although it'd be interesting to see what they both had to say. Certainly would give them both a chance. Also results have come in for Nottinghamshire County Council elections: -1.9% for Labour, -1.6% for Lib Dems but over +12% for the Tories. Yikes. Also the council is no overall control the Tories as the biggest party, but there are a bunch of ultra-right brexiteer independents who will basically vote with the Tories on everything. Buckle up everyone!
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
Hoops posted:Looks weak. Head's too small. Having a small head is both attractive and desirable in some cultures
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Taear posted:And doesn't have a deep voice. I don't think I want to vote for... the knock off Steve Jobs woman who runs the nonsense blood testing company in America. Elizabeth something.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Hoops posted:Looks weak. Head's too small. That's not very nice. I like the look of that Barry Gardiners. He is very good at speaking and doing politics. He also has a strange, enigmatic intensity about him like you wonder if he might be a wizard.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
jabby posted:I was listening to Emily Thornberry on the radio the other day and realised she has an incredibly good voice. Seriously, it's like velvet dipped in chocolate. She's from London though.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
I would be grateful for info/opinions/dirt on any of these apart from Cooper and Umunna really. edit: This is the odds for the next Labour leader, not just a list of random unknown people.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
Christ, imagine a Cooper-led Labour party against May. Continual one-upping on who's tougher on crime until we're all in leg irons.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Yvette Cooper and Tim Farron are blurring together in my head so I keep picturing some weird amalgamation of them.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
Lewis' defining features policy wise at the minute are being strongly pro-remain (or at least anti-brexit) and one of the most vocal and active voices in labour talking about electoral pacts and the "progressive alliance" I think the second bit will probably wound him in a leadership bid
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
It's going to come down to another test of wills after the election. People like Cooper and even Stephen Kinnock have been accused of setting themselves up for leadership bids, and the majority of the PLP would be happiest if left-wing candidates could be excluded from the ballot altogether. A lot will depend on the composition of the party afterwards, including whether any of them are fed up enough of Corbyn they're willing to nominate his successor to allow him to resign. EDIT: Keir Starmer would be a disaster IMO. Without wishing any offense to the man he's got less charisma than Ed did.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/829398278278086657 Clive seems like a bit of a numpty to me, not saying that wouldn't be a massive improvement though.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
Tortuga posted:edit: This is the odds for the next Labour leader, not just a list of random unknown people. Are you sure
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:19
|
|
|
Tortuga posted:I would be grateful for info/opinions/dirt on any of these apart from Cooper and Umunna really. Where is Tony?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:17
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:Lewis' defining features policy wise at the minute are being strongly pro-remain (or at least anti-brexit) and one of the most vocal and active voices in labour talking about electoral pacts and the "progressive alliance" At this point Labour need to get over themselves & accept a progressive alliance/popular front arrangement with the Liberals, Greens & aye, even the Scottish & Welsh nats, with a manifesto commitment for electoral reform. Because STV or the like is the only thing that will counteract the big advantage Tories will get from the boundary redraw next year. Personally I think that's a big positive for Lewis. AP posted:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/829398278278086657 OK, you don't think Clive Lewis is up to it, who would you choose, if you had the deciding vote in a contest to replace Jeremy Corbyn? Ignoring that we've no idea what big names are going to get beaten in June. You need someone who can unite the PLP and yet still win over the membership. Who is a better candidate?
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 05:23 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/860584704248041472
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2017 21:21
|
|