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Aethernet posted:1.6 nerfs warp. I assume this is part of a plan to force everyone to play with wormholes before they're removed from the game, as they are now by far the best travel option. forced hyperlanes for everybody 4 lyfe crew checking in
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May 5, 2017 11:12
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The mods and fixes from the workshop are a nice stopgap but don't really help anyone playing Ironman. I'm not sure if mine requires a tech, I hope so because it'd be nice if this patch fixed it. Although it's a bit far off and I don't think I'll still be on this game then. I only do ironman though or the temptation to cheat is too high. Meaning for me mods aren't a fix.
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May 5, 2017 11:23
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Taear posted:I'm not sure if mine requires a tech, I hope so because it'd be nice if this patch fixed it. Although it's a bit far off and I don't think I'll still be on this game then. uh you can play ironman with mods
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May 5, 2017 11:26
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Goa Tse-tung posted:uh you can play ironman with mods You don't get achievements though you do? It doesn't feel "real" to me playing with mods, I'd rather it was actually fixed properly! I know that's dumb.
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May 5, 2017 12:45
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quote:* Fixed minor typo rendering the game "literally unplayable" FINALLY
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May 5, 2017 12:51
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3 DONG HORSE posted:FINALLY Was that the thing where the possible choices when attempting to remove a short cut were essentially "Nope" and "No"? Because that is the most glaring typo I can think of. The first time I removed a shortcut I was confused as hell. Libluini fucked around with this message at 14:01 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 13:57
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So I recently started a game with the intention of playing tall for once, still ended up with 20 planets after my second colonisation wave. Someone teach me how to play tall 
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May 5, 2017 14:03
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A Tartan Tory posted:So I recently started a game with the intention of playing tall for once, still ended up with 20 planets after my second colonisation wave. Try not owning any systems beyond your core limit, only declaring liberation wars and adding members to your federation, and then despairing because this leaves you without enough fleet capacity to beat the Unbidden.
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May 5, 2017 14:16
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A Tartan Tory posted:So I recently started a game with the intention of playing tall for once, still ended up with 20 planets after my second colonisation wave. Get OCD and require all your planets to be perfectly developed and populated before moving on to the next one. Have friendly or superior neighbors you don't particularly want to fight. Also, Slow Breeders + Sedentary.
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May 5, 2017 14:19
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NihilCredo posted:Get OCD and require all your planets to be perfectly developed and populated before moving on to the next one. Have friendly or superior neighbors you don't particularly want to fight. I tried being OCD with my first sector, but that took so long I went "gently caress this" after my second sector and just put planets and habitats into my newer sectors whenever I felt like it. Now I'm up to 5 sectors, with another one planned. And thanks to my sectors colonizing wildly, I'm up to 26 planets now. (3 of them habitats) I'm also building two more habitats, mostly to collect more energy for the inevitable war against the rampaging awakened empire on the other side of the galaxy. (My three fleets combined have something like 50k combined, the curse of a long and peaceful playthrough.)
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May 5, 2017 14:50
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Aethernet posted:Try not owning any systems beyond your core limit, only declaring liberation wars and adding members to your federation, and then despairing because this leaves you without enough fleet capacity to beat the Unbidden. Thats the thing, I generally have a core limit of about 18, it's why I expand in waves. Maybe never using sectors is my problem. NihilCredo posted:Get OCD and require all your planets to be perfectly developed and populated before moving on to the next one. Have friendly or superior neighbors you don't particularly want to fight. My planets usually just need upgrades by the time I do second expansion waves, so it's not really a problem. I always play with sedentary because I don't use resettlement and it prevents mass immigrations to the point where I can replace the pop via growth as it immigrates. Also I enjoy fighting my neighbours purely for amusement, not for taking planets.
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May 5, 2017 14:53
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NihilCredo posted:Also, Slow Breeders + Sedentary. I kind of want to try a Domination-focused playthrough where I never expand beyond my core systems+frontier outposts and instead just force the galaxy into vassalage/tributary status. Obviously I'd build the crap out of habitats and other megastructures.
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May 5, 2017 15:02
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Incoming wall of  about Unity and Tall vs Wide.In this stupidly long post I will be testing if Unity can favour Tall empires by trying to disprove the hypothesis that Unity always definitely favours Wide empires, so assumptions for the purposes of simplification will be done in favour of Wide empires, within reason. I'll also be defining some terms: Base Unity, which is your homeworld's unity output + empire uniques, including the passive +1 you get for existing Per-Colony Unity, or how much unity you get from each non-homeworld colony Effective Unity, which is your total unity output adjusted for the current tradition cost I told you this was going to be . Note I never told you it would be good.The formula for calculating tradition cost is: Cost = ( 56 + ( ( 6 * tradition perks )^1.6 ) + 2 * adjusted population ) * ( 1 + (colonies/4) ) (Colonies does not include your homeworld, your homeworld is free) A planet ends up being unity positive if the unity it produces is greater than the increase in total unity cost (obviously). If we ignore the population + traditions bit of the equation for now and just focus on the colonies bit, then as long as each colony can produce at least 25% of the base empire unity (Homeworld + empire uniques), more colonies means more effective unity. Or, in other words, if we can show that an optimal Wide empires spammable unity output is 25% or less than a Tall empire's realistic base empire unity (17% or less with the Expansion tradition) then less is definitely more. If it isn't, more might still be more and we need to do hunt further. We can check this super easily by counting up the maximum Unity you can get from standard buildings, and comparing that to a single-planet Tall empire*. Base Empire Unity = Empire Capital Complex (4) + Auto-Curating Vault (10) + Energy Grid (2) + Visitor Centre (2) + Paradise Dome (2) + Ministry of Culture (6) + Citadel of Faith (10) + Existance (1) = 37 Per-Colony Unity = Planetary Capital (3) + Hypercomms (8) + Energy Grid (2) + Visitor Centre (2) + Paradise Dome (2) + Holo Temple (4) = 21 *I've left out Ministry of Benevolence and the Leviathan killer monuments because they're not universally available and leaving them out swings the math toward Wide. I've added in the Temple tree and all the Tradition techs despite not being universally available because that swings the math toward Wide. Counting end-game techs technically swings us toward Tall, but it just works out easier. I'll be addressing Art Monuments in a bit, and I left out Agrarian Ideal because gently caress that noise, I'll deal with it when/if I have to. 21 is definitely not 1/6th of 37, so currently Wide is still winning. But let's add some Art. You can have up to five Art Installations, so let's give our Tall empire four colonies with Art on them and a fifth on the homeworld. With the changes that's another +50 to our base empire generation, bringing it to 87. Which is more than four times 21, so a five planet empire near endgame with some artist buddies is pushing more effective unity better than a similar, wider empire who hasn't picked up the 33% reducer. Things are still in Wide's favour, but they're starting to look up. We need to find another 39 unity somewhere, or reduce the amount of Unity a new planet gets you. Enter the pop side of the equation above. We're going to make a few pro-wide and pro-tall simplifications here. We're going to pretend every planet as 10 slots (pro-wide), our homeworld has 22 ( wide and pro-maths), that slaves/robots/xenos just count as regular pops (pro-wide) and that every planet immediately fills up with pops and all its buildings (kind of a wash and it makes life easier). We're also going to ignore the per-perk exponential increase which is a really, really, really pro-tall assumption but I'll address that later. This entire next section was garbage kludgey maths nobody would ever want to read so I deleted it, but it boiled down to Effective Unity Gain in the above scenario equalling: 3*(Base unity + (Per-Colony Unity*Colonies) -------------------------------------------------------------------- 10*(Colonies^2 + 11*Colonies + 30) and then doing things to that, and basically if everything was unlocked immediately and perk costs didn't increase exponentially you could build a nice little 5 planet empire with a marginal unity lead. Except everything isn't unlocked immediately, so the only early-to-mid game unity sources that can't also be spammed on colonies are your basic +1 and whatever Arts you manage to buy, along with not keeping slaves, refusing alien immigrants, and making your Tiny Utopia as goddamned cheerful as possible. It's gotten nice outside so I'm going to tl;dr the rest. tl;dr The new changes push Unity further toward being a Tall Empire thing. The general Unity slowdown gives you more time before perk penalties kill your low pop bonuses, the removal of Symbol slows down getting a mid game colony up to Unity scratch and also increases the relative impact of Unity boosting Empire or Homeworld unique buildings, and the increased raw Unity power of the Art Installations and Monuments increases the negative impact of additional planets. Maximising the Unity advantages of playing Tall requires Artists and their Arts, speed-researching the Homeworld Unique Unity buildings, pumping Happiness, refusing Migration treaties, and never building Synths. Getting lucky with a Leviathan monument would also be good. Even with the above it's a very tight margin and probably not worth all the resources you're giving up by not playing Wide. Adding additional empire unique or empire limited Unity sources would make playing Tall more viable. e: the way Art Installations being empire limited rather than empire unique interacts really well with Tall empires and Unity, more not-unique-but-not-spammable things like that please. Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:35 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 16:24
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Splicer posted:tl;dr If we switch to a .166 penalty, though, we're comparing 171/1.66 = 102.6 to (87+n*21)/(1+.1666n), which is far more in wide's favor. Using this, 10 worlds gives 111.375, 20 worlds gives 117, fifty gives 121.8, etc, decaying towards 126; population effects would have to slow it down by a fifth to make tall better. Not impossible, I guess... Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 19:52 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 19:47
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The other thing to keep in mind if you're playing tall is that you'll want to take the +200 fleet cap perk as your 3rd grab unless you've managed to build up a nice network of buddies. It'll let you field a big enough fleet to take on galatic threats or wars with much larger empires, though your biggest weakness is that it'll be harder to replace losses in general. The other thing I'd suggest is early options of +border range. The perk that gives you +25% is quite good, and the supremacy unlock can give you another +20%. With the changes to unity per unlocked category I'm not quite sure where the balance between unlocking several categories for their useful bits and completing trees for the perks will end up sitting.
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May 5, 2017 22:10
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Have you tried just being very bad at the game? Because I can't see to get beyond 5 worlds and don't really get how people (or AI empires) snap up a dozen or more, they take forever to develop and there's only ever a few nearby that're actually habitable before you run into other peoples' borders. I guess that's less "tall" and more "small", possibly "barely at all".
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May 5, 2017 22:39
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At some point during my ironman game I got the achievement for having my ruler be a different race to my starting race. It wasn't though, it was still my space tortoise. Now my save game is a picture of the aliens that are south of me. And when I had the Worm-That-Waits quests I had to use one of those to scan the anomaly because it said they were my founding race. What!
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May 5, 2017 22:44
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Taear posted:At some point during my ironman game I got the achievement for having my ruler be a different race to my starting race. It wasn't though, it was still my space tortoise. Are you playing a psychic race? Did you perhaps recently find that one of your subject races had also become a little bit psychic? If so, there's your problem.
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May 5, 2017 22:51
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did you do psionics? psionic ascension is broke
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May 5, 2017 22:53
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I love being fanatic spiritual and fully embracing the worm. My state religion is loopy. I do not love starting with tomb world preference and despite genetically engineering my race whole again it still counts as two separate despite identical traits in the same order. 
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May 5, 2017 22:58
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Bohemian Nights posted:Are you playing a psychic race? Did you perhaps recently find that one of your subject races had also become a little bit psychic? Yes. Oh well.
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May 5, 2017 23:06
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Strudel Man posted:Hm. Back-of-the-envelope math at least agrees with you if we don't have the tradition cost reducer from colonies - art installations allow you to have a capital unity generation of 47, and four per-colonies raised to 31. This means our five-world tall empire has total unity generation of 47+4*31= 171 and a world penalty of +100% for a modified production of 85.5 ignoring pop cost effects, and a wide empire with n total colonies not including homeworld has total unity generation of 47+4*31+(n-4)*21 = 87 + n*21 and a world penalty of (1+.25n), giving modified production of (87+n*21)/(1+.25n), which does indeed get slightly smaller as n increases beyond n; 10 colonies gives 84.9, 20 gives 84.5, etc, decaying towards 84. What I was trying to get at, before realising it was a sunny day outside and I was analysing fictional space economies on the internet, was that the changes make unity way, way closer to innately favouring Tall empires, but it relies on a specific gimmick from a different DLC and I doubt the tech, planet, and tradition progression in actual play aligns how it would need to for it to actually cross the line. Whether adding more planets is barely positive or barely negative, on either case it's just on one side or the other of the line. Just a bit more frontloading of Unity generation should be enough to make it an actual advertisable benefit of playing tall. My current pet idea is to bring back Symbols of Unity, but capped at a specific number like with Art Installations. Maybe get one to place every time you start a new tradition. Or you get five, planet unique, and each one also provides a planetary boost to a specific resource (Symbol of Industry, Symbol of Prosperity etc). Splicer fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 23:24
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I'd forgotten a bit how much I enjoy the little geopolitical stories that emerge. After my federation broke up the xenophobic autocracy sitting between the different member states, it was turned into two flavors of more peaceful/accepting successor states that I thought were going to end up enemies. They ended up allying though and are both on the road to joining the Federation, but in the larger state a neo-reactionary movement on the former autocracy's capital seceded and refounded their previous nation. Now it's hemmed in by both successors and the federation and forted up for a siege, but everyone seems happy to ignore them as an angry but powerless backwater. I really want to add the cool Democratic Crusaders to the south to our federation, since they've single-handedly held the line against an advance-start fanatical purifer empire trying to expand into a bunch of soft peaceful nations beyond, but they don't like our kingdom members so I guess that's a no-go which is a pity. I wish there was some way to improve relations between two other empires.
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May 5, 2017 23:29
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Dolash posted:Have you tried just being very bad at the game? Because I can't see to get beyond 5 worlds and don't really get how people (or AI empires) snap up a dozen or more, they take forever to develop and there's only ever a few nearby that're actually habitable before you run into other peoples' borders. Sometimes you just spawn in an area with nobody around and you can colonize a dozen or more planets with no hassle at all - that this is the case is extremely troublesome for multiplayer, and the reason you should play with many more empires than is the default. Other times you have nearby neighbours, and being aggressive about taking them out is super important. Try inviting people to your wars; you usually don't have to give them much (or anything really), and with any luck the AIs will push their fleets into each other, crippling them both, meaning you can turn around and murder your comrade in arms immediately right after.
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May 5, 2017 23:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Other times you have nearby neighbours, and being aggressive about taking them out is super important. Try inviting people to your wars; you usually don't have to give them much (or anything really), and with any luck the AIs will push their fleets into each other, crippling them both, meaning you can turn around and murder your comrade in arms immediately right after. Marking a lovely tiny fleet with "take point" to lead your allies into doing the fighting for you is a trick from EU4 and CK2 that can also work in Stellaris, although it's much more micro-intensive and finicky in Stellaris than those games.
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May 5, 2017 23:53
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PittTheElder posted:Sometimes you just spawn in an area with nobody around and you can colonize a dozen or more planets with no hassle at all - that this is the case is extremely troublesome for multiplayer, and the reason you should play with many more empires than is the default. If you don't play with the largest galaxy, with the maximum amount of empires, and the smallest amount of habitable planets, I don't know what to tell you.
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May 5, 2017 23:52
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BenRGamer posted:If you don't play with the largest galaxy, with the maximum amount of empires, and the smallest amount of habitable planets, I don't know what to tell you. I preferred the same but tripling the number of habitable planets, so now everyone's quite dense and there's room to expand but also everyone is rubbing shoulders in a huge galactic melting pot.
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May 6, 2017 00:21
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It's a proper pain in the arse that when you speak to Curators you end a line (say you tell them you want to help with research) and then it just closes the window. I want the patch to stop that.
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May 6, 2017 00:21
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Taear posted:It's a proper pain in the arse that when you speak to Curators you end a line (say you tell them you want to help with research) and then it just closes the window. You know what's a real pain in the arse? The traders tell you when the deal runs out and let you renew automatically, the artisans tell you when your patronage runs out and let you renew automatically...the curators just let their research help drop with no goddamn pop-up at all so you gotta manually keep track of those 10 years...so bloody annoying. Also, I finally managed to start a game with the most crowded galaxy possible and stay as a tall empire...with 15 planets, which is incredibly small for me! A Tartan Tory fucked around with this message at 03:23 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 03:19
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I don't get some of these patch changes... Nerfing warp, an already meh FTL type and buffing defence stations but increasing their build radius just keeps them pointless.
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May 6, 2017 04:27
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i've bought the dlc and am going to play this game tonight for the first time since launch. i read a little bit of this thread and some of the dev diaries so i know some of the features that were added but have no idea of what the meta is like anymore. wish me luck
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May 6, 2017 05:21
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PittTheElder posted:Sometimes you just spawn in an area with nobody around and you can colonize a dozen or more planets with no hassle at all - that this is the case is extremely troublesome for multiplayer, and the reason you should play with many more empires than is the default. As an example of this, here is a partial view of my empire in our current multiplayer game. For reference, this is a 1000-star galaxy, with the default number of habitable planets and empires. The difficulty and AI aggressiveness settings are one level higher than normal.  I'm not particularly good at the game, I just got lucky and ended up with a huge swath of empty space to expand into, weak neighbors, and plenty of primitives to invade for free colonies. With nearly a thousand pops spread across over 60 colony worlds, I'm slightly larger than the other two human players in this game combined. One of those players is objectively much better at the game than I am - except he got hemmed in by an advanced start Fanatical Purifier a few jumps away from his home system. Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 05:31 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 05:29
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I'm playing as a hive mind for the first time. I conquered these rear end in a top hat warriors and force-vassalized them. I've
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May 6, 2017 06:43
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there should be a realm divide option like the total war games, where at some point after becoming so bum gently caress powerful everyone, even your allies, will make a super federation to try and take you down. at this point in my alpha mod game, which already makes you incredibly powerful, nothing can real stand up to me but i don't want to declare wars on everyone multiple times just to conquer them. basically the war in heavens event except you're the awakened empire everyone is trying to stop.
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May 6, 2017 07:23
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"We noticed that the one guy who still plays Xenophile got a foreign pop to move to his planet somehow, so we thought we'd change it so pops only move from completely full planets"
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May 6, 2017 07:36
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Spanish Matlock posted:"We noticed that the one guy who still plays Xenophile got a foreign pop to move to his planet somehow, so we thought we'd change it so pops only move from completely full planets"
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May 6, 2017 08:13
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Strudel Man posted:Yeah, this is a pretty bizarre change to have made. I still think this change means to combat the nutso internal migration, because having your people keep abandoning your older worlds for newer ones gets tiresome real fast.
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May 6, 2017 08:53
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In my most recent game I had to resettle a bunch of people onto my capital so I could build the empire capital-complex because they wouldn't stop migrating off to newer (worse) planets.
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May 6, 2017 09:16
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Spanish Matlock posted:"We noticed that the one guy who still plays Xenophile got a foreign pop to move to his planet somehow, so we thought we'd change it so pops only move from completely full planets" Maybe they don't realise that migration from external powers is broken because (like others have said) your internal migration is all weird right now. I've only just filled my starting planet after maybe 200 years because of it!
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May 6, 2017 09:28
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Taear posted:Yes. Oh well. I had that happen in one of my Ironman saves too. Suddenly 30 pops of a subject species became the founder species while the 500 pops of my former main species all became enslaved and ruined my energy and research income. I needed to recover a save from yesterdays backup to continue, and choose "no" on the psionic ascension.
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May 6, 2017 09:42
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