Oberleutnant posted:

Aliquid posted:

he looks like the "after" photo from that fox news hit job

Spangly A posted:

if Burnham promised McDonnell chancellor and kept the investment bank/nationalise the trains he'd probably win

Oberleutnant posted:

Andy "I'll never give an interview to the Sun because they lied about Hillsborough" Barnham:

Another Person posted:

Because people looked at him and saw his fairly standard Labour pledge list and decided he was a centrist. He didn't represent the strong break with the status quo of Labour that people wanted in 2015, and that reputation never left him because it has persisted on being an issue in Labour to this day.

For what it matters, I would describe Burnham as a Brownite, positioned to the left somewhat of Brown himself, but nowhere near Corbyn. If we were to line up the leadership candidates, from right to left it would have been: Kendall, Cooper, Burnham, Corbyn. Some of the major issues of contention between Corbyn supporters and Burnham supporters were defence policy, because Corbyn represented stronger pacifism, while Burnham was much more traditional in foreign policy, supporting the standards of Trident renewal and NATO membership.

Aliquid posted:

What did they accomplish with such gusto that it bordered on fanaticism? As an American, off the top of my head hereditary titles and the existence of the monarchy go a ways toward cementing a classist society; has Labour ever been explicitly against these things, or have they tried to abolish them in the past? My Cold War-era UK history sucks, I really don't know much about post-Atlee Labour successes.

Hoops posted:

I was aware of this but there's nothing there that equals "convictionless careerist".

I have seen the Sun photo mentioned before (if it's that picture of him thumbs up in a taxi with a Sun logo on the side, the picture isn't loading for me). But there's no real doubt in my mind that he did work hard for the Hillsborough campaign - In my opinion it's an unfortunate photo but doesn't mean anything, the guy just got in a black cab and may not have noticed what was on the side.

Another Person posted:

Burnham was one of the two leadership candidates pledging the renationalisation of the rail. It was a bit of an opportunist move on his part I will admit, because it was after people realised how popular the policy was with party members. I doubt he would keep McDonnell on as chancellor if he took leadership over though. McDonnell, while popular with the members, does not have a lot of love from other MPs and party officials. Who knows though, Burnham has proven to be malleable and willing to listen to what people actually want so it could happen if this theoretical situation went forwards.

Hoops posted:

I was aware of this but there's nothing there that equals "convictionless careerist".

I have seen the Sun photo mentioned before (if it's that picture of him thumbs up in a taxi with a Sun logo on the side, the picture isn't loading for me). But there's no real doubt in my mind that he did work hard for the Hillsborough campaign - In my opinion it's an unfortunate photo but doesn't mean anything, the guy just got in a black cab and may not have noticed what was on the side.

quote:

Andy Burnham vows to get tough on benefits if he wins Labour leadership race

Hoops posted:

I was aware of this but there's nothing there that equals "convictionless careerist".

I have seen the Sun photo mentioned before (if it's that picture of him thumbs up in a taxi with a Sun logo on the side, the picture isn't loading for me). But there's no real doubt in my mind that he did work hard for the Hillsborough campaign - In my opinion it's an unfortunate photo but doesn't mean anything, the guy just got in a black cab and may not have noticed what was on the side. To take that photo as evidence he secretly is costing up to Murdoch or something is cheap.

ronya posted:

the big fight over grammar schools

by the late 1970s most had already been closed. Cue a problem: the few survivors are still standing to thumb their nose at those who fighting to abolish them, but because they're few in number, widespread popular and establishment anxiety over their social impact has largely evaporated

that wasn't the big problem. the big problem was the degree of fury ignited by the argument meant that the party did not really have any intellectual flexibility to adapt when the anxiety du jour turned toward the quality of urban comprehensives, which partisans took to be about a stealth battle over reviving grammars when, no, most of England had actually accepted the new comprehensives and it really was anxiety over the quality of urban comprehensives

Oberleutnant posted:

It was part of a spread that the Sun was doing called "the Sun CABinet", geddit?
Not just a random cab he jumped into.

And the point isn't that he did a thing for the Sun (although it is a disgusting piece if poo poo newspaper, a lot of politicians have been dirtied by association with it and still gone on to successful careers). It's that he took the Sun's money and/or publicity when that suited him, and then he tried to play the big man standing strong with the victims and survivors of Hillsborough and act like he was just too pure to have anything to do with a Murdoch paper.

The man has no principles and his only priority is his own survival and advancement.

Kokoro Wish posted:

Unfortunately his presentation at the time was of the perfectly preened plastic politician. Watching several hustings with him, he just talked very artificially and never really seemed genuine and it's just the type of poo poo that really doesn't fly well at the moment.

Comrade Cheggorsky posted:

Andy Burnham did a photo op in a sun taxi and is thus the most wicked man to ever live

Gonzo McFee posted:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/andy-burnham-vows-tough-benefits-5786479


This is why people didn't like Andy the first time around.

Oberleutnant posted:

Lol. I'd clean forgotten all about this.

quote:

Giving a ruthless analysis of why Labour lost under Mr Miliband, she said they were seen as an “analogue” party in a digital age and failed to convince voters they had a “strong enough plan.”

She said it would be a big mistake for the party to “seek comfort in past victories or defeat.”

“We can’t get sucked back into replaying Miliband vs Miliband, Blair vs Brown, or trying the old campaign playbooks from the 1990s or the noughties.

"Britain has moved on. We need answers for tomorrow not yesterday,” she said.

She added: “Britain is changing fast – through technology, global competition, travel, trade and migration - changing jobs, changing family life, changing communities.

“Yet politics isn’t keeping up. In a digital world, Westminster politics is stuck in an analogue age. And Labour just got left behind.”

Oberleutnant posted:

I just cannot understand it.... how did these political heavyweights fail to win the Labour leadership election!??

kapparomeo posted:

They were up against an electorate filled with people the UKMT goons; people so narcissistic, petulant and fundamentally irrational that they get more pleasure from nursing their grudge over tuition fees than conceding a word of favour to the Lib Dems even though they're the only party that has offered even modest resistance to Brexit.

Kokoro Wish posted:

Unfortunately his presentation at the time was of the perfectly preened plastic politician. Watching several hustings with him, he just talked very artificially and never really seemed genuine and it's just the type of poo poo that really doesn't fly well at the moment.

Oberleutnant posted:

I just cannot understand it.... how did these political heavyweights fail to win the Labour leadership election!??

kapparomeo posted:

They were up against an electorate filled with people the UKMT goons; people so narcissistic, petulant and fundamentally irrational that they get more pleasure from nursing their grudge over tuition fees than conceding a word of favour to the Lib Dems even though they're the only party that has offered even modest resistance to Brexit.

Alchenar posted:

Andy Burnham spent the last two years in the Shadow Cabinet being as invisible as he possibly could be. It is astonishing that at no point in the last two years, given everything that has happened, has he either come out against Corbyn or made a serious defence of him. That strategy got him into Manchester and the membership probably haven't taken too much notice of it, but the PLP definitely have noticed and none of them will forget that he sat on the fence when the leadership was in question, nor will they forget his reluctance to take stands on anything, nor will they forget that rather than stay and fight for Labour in Parliament he's chosen to take a parachute.

I have a hunch that after a hypothetical GE in 2022 where Labour loses again and Burnham has secured a seat that he'd actually find it very difficult to get the nominations.

His Divine Shadow posted:

The more I read this thread and UK news in general, the more I think Corbyn is probably a pretty OK leader, but Labour is just such a lovely shambolic party completely lacking all confidence of the voters (and was like this before corbyn too) not even the best drat leader there ever was could fix it.

His Divine Shadow posted:

The more I read this thread and UK news in general, the more I think Corbyn is probably a pretty OK leader, but Labour is just such a lovely shambolic party completely lacking all confidence of the voters (and was like this before corbyn too) not even the best drat leader there ever was could fix it.

His Divine Shadow posted:

The more I read this thread and UK news in general, the more I think Corbyn is probably a pretty OK leader, but Labour is just such a lovely shambolic party completely lacking all confidence of the voters (and was like this before corbyn too) not even the best drat leader there ever was could fix it.

Scikar posted:

Honestly, the shittest bit about the whole Corbyn era isn't the fact that he's scored a disappointing amount of own goals since taking over, it's the fact that years from now people will still be blaming him for Labour's bad poll ratings and Brexit, even though literally nobody can imagine the situation being better under Burnham or Cooper or Kendall or Eagle or Smith. It's telling that through the whole time he's been leader the centrist solution has never been "he should resign so X can take over", just "he should resign so we can have another crippling slapfight over whether socialists and union members are allowed to have a say in who leads their own party".