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PittTheElder posted:Well it certainly appears to be working, I wouldn't call it an AI issue. Well except for the Ottomans being able to run unchecked thru Egypt.
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May 2, 2017 01:55
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PittTheElder posted:Well it certainly appears to be working, I wouldn't call it an AI issue. I've seen the AI start to try the same thing around Metz a few times in my game. I'm still in 1914 and the Schliffen plan is petering out, but I'm keeping enough pressure in front of Paris that it keeps getting broken up. I assume that's the answer to it - attack around it or in a more vital sector - it's a lot closer to Paris from Lille than it is Berlin from Metz.
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May 2, 2017 01:59
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Losing the Suez Canal just snipped the Empire in half, I have no idea how they're keeping a lid on India and the 3rd Boer War we started when apparently every single soldier they have is in France.
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May 2, 2017 03:05
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They can still sail around Africa. And the Boer war isn't a huge thing, it just forces you to tie down a few units in S. Africa until you clean it up.
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May 2, 2017 05:14
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I guess I'm sort of confused as to how logistically they could put so many men into the field in so narrow an area - you can't have a million+ soldiers by the logistics of an area in such a narrow front without massive issues from the men basically tripping over one another. They'd be running out of supplies and have massive coordination issues along such a narrow front particularly.
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May 2, 2017 08:02
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wedgekree posted:I guess I'm sort of confused as to how logistically they could put so many men into the field in so narrow an area - you can't have a million+ soldiers by the logistics of an area in such a narrow front without massive issues from the men basically tripping over one another. They'd be running out of supplies and have massive coordination issues along such a narrow front particularly. Maybe that's why they're losing so many men whenever they engage. Or is that just 'cause they're attacking? My problem with the various AGEOD LPs I've seen is that the battle screens just tell me who lost the most men, not why. Maybe it's buried in tooltips somewhere.
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May 2, 2017 08:29
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Yeah, it's also sort of weird as to how it's giving out info. I'm not exactly sure as to how an army can lose 15% of it's active combat personnel in a turn (about two weeks) listed as casualties (when Kichener is attacking with a million men) over a single province and remain cohesive. I think protracted combat operatios of him having a million men (which attrition seems to have ground down to like a third of that which seems even freakier mind) for several months on end over a narrow frontage would realistically even with unit rotation have them completely disitegrating. Then there's the logistical issues, the command and control issues.. That seems really wonky of the game engine to not have any real concept of 'frontage' when it's putting units in, even with command. Attrition seems kinda meanigless or unit cohesion when Kitchener has a million men attacking for three months constantly over about 60 kilometers and using 40% of them as casualties. o.O
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May 2, 2017 09:04
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I think Kitchener split his force at some point, rather than losing like 800,000 men out of it.
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May 2, 2017 15:12
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There is a mechanic in the game for 'traffic', moving too much through a single zone. It's an optional setting that defaults to off, however. And I'm not sure if it models attrition or just slows down movement (and possibly cohesion) from moving too many dudes through a territory. Also yeah after taking a few territories, Kitchener probably split off some corps to cover the flanks of his salient.
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May 2, 2017 21:48
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Does this game even model resource costs? Like beyond just a money cost for "maintenance" - the resources needed to move a million men 200 miles in a month are staggering.
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May 2, 2017 22:16
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Gort posted:My problem with the various AGEOD LPs I've seen is that the battle screens just tell me who lost the most men, not why. Maybe it's buried in tooltips somewhere. Seconding this. I have no idea what the hell is going on. About the only thing I learned from this lp is that somehow letting as many Russians into prussia then popping two events on them in a row is the optimal way to crush the Edit: the Russians are always red in every board game I play. twig1919 fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 23:05
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Red Army, huh. Guess the revolution's come early.
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May 2, 2017 23:07
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Gort posted:My problem with the various AGEOD LPs I've seen is that the battle screens just tell me who lost the most men, not why. Maybe it's buried in tooltips somewhere. I've never played this one, but in the other AGEOD games I have seen there is a more detailed breakdown of what happened per unit and combat 'round'. It still can be tough to piece things together, at least at first, but it definitely gives you a better picture. Supply, combat effects, cowardice in melee combat, initial engagement range, retreat attempts, terrain effects, and other things can be found there. Leperflesh posted:Does this game even model resource costs? Like beyond just a money cost for "maintenance" - the resources needed to move a million men 200 miles in a month are staggering. Some of this depends on settings but supply handles this at least to an extent. Different games use the supply system differently, some use a 'rail transport' mechanic that you have a limited amount of for moving units more quickly, war-torn aka 'pillaged' regions can make it harder to get supply, etc. Overall I'd describe what I know of it to be between 'nothing' and 'enough' -- it could definitely stand to be more robust but isn't non-existent.
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May 3, 2017 03:54
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Leperflesh posted:Does this game even model resource costs? Like beyond just a money cost for "maintenance" - the resources needed to move a million men 200 miles in a month are staggering. You've got a few types of 'resources' in this game, they're all produced organically from your provinces. I'm not at home to look at the game, but from memory, you have: Money: Used in small quantities to produce units, used in greater quantities to play option cards, diplomatic events, recruit more generals, play decisions. Rail: Each power gets a certain amount of rail points every turn to be used to move units and supply. Cannot be saved. Manpower: Used for replacements and reinforcements, usually involved in some measure with.... War supplies: Used for replacements and reinforcements, as well as some decisions and events, and supply. Ammunition: Consumed primarily by naval units and heavy artillery. Most games on this scale do not do a good job of modelling the logistics. This one leaves it abstracted for the most part, but you'll definitely suffer when you run out of resources. When you run out of money, all you can really do is use your existing units and print more money. You can use up your whole rail pool getting units where you want them (almost necessary in the first couple turns), but it will hurt your troops that are moving and fighting; they'll start to run out of supplies, which will impact their cohesion and, eventually, unit strength. I imagine that as you flush out your armies to historical size in 1916 and 1917, you start to run out of the other resources. I'm still in 1914, so I haven't seen too much of that - you do almost have to print money on the first turn or two, or you will be extremely limited in what you can do outside of moving your existing armies. twig1919 posted:Seconding this. I have no idea what the hell is going on. About the only thing I learned from this lp is that somehow letting as many Russians into prussia then popping two events on them in a row is the optimal way to crush the The Russian and Austrian units are v. bad compared to the Germans, the one-time Hoffman event makes all Russian units in Germany totally immobile and way worse for one turn, as it's really the only way to re-create something like Tannenberg. The other 'event' you're speaking of is just the Hindenberg/Ludendorf event, which happens automatically if Russia enters Germany (IMO should fire off regardless), giving Germany a GHQ in the east. The Russian army is really big and hard to keep in a pocket, as this LP is showing. In my game, I did the traditional start for everyone (Schliffen Plan, etc.), and had to pull back pretty far with the Austrians to avoid getting utterly steamrolled. I'm about 6 turns in, and still haven't managed to clear the Russians totally out of E. Prussia, either. Without those extra German armies in the East from this game's setup, there are a lot of Russian armies with nothing to do but bull-rush Austria. You have to play D over there for the most part until you can build up a few more armies and start grinding away. The game fairly well models the logistical difficulties, especially in Poland/Russia: it takes forever to march units places, and you need a pretty considerable advantage with the attackers to win battles. Thotimx posted:I've never played this one, but in the other AGEOD games I have seen there is a more detailed breakdown of what happened per unit and combat 'round'. It still can be tough to piece things together, at least at first, but it definitely gives you a better picture. Supply, combat effects, cowardice in melee combat, initial engagement range, retreat attempts, terrain effects, and other things can be found there. You can get a (somewhat) better picture from the battles by going turn-to-turn, but even that is fairly abstractly handled. The strength of each side, cohesion, unit composition all figure into it, and there's a 'frontage' model in all AGEOD games, where each terrain only lets X units actually participate in each round of combat (modified sometimes by events or leaders). Overall though I haven't been really surprised by the outcome of any battles yet. There is an option in the game (default is off) to include attrition/strength loss while moving units if you want ultra-realism, but that may not mesh very well with the AI. e: Grey Hunter, this is your LP. If you want me to butt out, just say the word. I am enjoying watching the Russia-first game play out, it actually convinced me to try historical for my first go-round. Corsair Pool Boy fucked around with this message at 06:21 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 06:18
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Ugggh I was one of the peeps who pushed for the offensive against the Russians, my sincerest apologies. Is there any hijinks that could help turn this around? Hope you can salvage this.
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May 4, 2017 00:15
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Fellbat posted:Ugggh I was one of the peeps who pushed for the offensive against the Russians, my sincerest apologies. Is there any hijinks that could help turn this around? Hope you can salvage this. Don't feel bad, I was too. I dont think anyone voting realized how much stronger France gets withoutthe Schliffen Plan and related territorial losses. My next game I'm going to try the same thing. It's really shocking how bad the AH units really are. I just noticed the other night that the nationality of all units is tracked, and you take combat penalties for a mix of units and commanders. Austrian, Hungarian, Czech, Slovak, Italian, Bosnian, Polish.... I'm trying in my game right now to unravel it a bit, and there are some commanders that ignore various nationalities, but it's really a mess. I assume the Russians have a similar problem, but on a much smaller scale.
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May 4, 2017 00:27
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MANime in the sheets posted:Don't feel bad, I was too. I dont think anyone voting realized how much stronger France gets withoutthe Schliffen Plan and related territorial losses. My next game I'm going to try the same thing. That's pretty much totally historically accurate though. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 01:17 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 01:15
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I'll be interested to see how or if Grey can salvage this. I'm a few months behind him (and quite a few NM points ahead of him) in my own Central Powers game, but went with historical warplans across the board. Schlieffen petered out in Belgium (no idea how to get it to its historical point), but the Austrian fortress-cities are currently holding strong, Belgrade is under siege (but no progress is being made, and I'm loathe to order an assault), and Lodz is currently being attacked by newly mobilized corps of German forces. East Prussia is a bit of a stalemate so far. Turkey just joined though, and its Order of Battle is monstrously bad HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 01:17
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HannibalBarca posted:Schlieffen petered out in Belgium (no idea how to get it to its historical point) You have to be crazy aggressive, using the offensive and assault postures and telling 1st, 2nd, and 3rd armies to move through multiple territories every turn. Ive been using just cavalry and a corps or two to screen my right flank. I had 1st army assault Brussels, 2nd on Liege, and 3rd on... not sure, not at my pc....Namur?
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May 4, 2017 01:26
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I rather hope Grey can pull through. It would be disappointing if the game managed to beat Grey to the ground because we had the audacity to try and do something other than the historical path.
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May 4, 2017 01:29
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The thing that always gets me in AGEOD games is how loving huge armies get in the WWI / RR games, I only ever played Wars in America and the 7 Years war where like 10,000 regulars is a dangerous doomstack.
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May 4, 2017 01:52
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How does the AI handle the Central Powers, are they dangerous at all?Randarkman posted:That's pretty much totally historically accurate though. For real. Supposed Great Power A-H couldn't even defeat Serbia on her own.
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May 4, 2017 02:12
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:How does the AI handle the Central Powers, are they dangerous at all? A friend and I are doing a PBEM where we each play half of the Entente; he says they got to the gates of Paris in the West but that their armies sort of dissolved there. He took tens of thousands of prisoners through some opaque mechanic that he can't remember seeing a notification for, so the Central Powers AI seems to have blundered its way into Germany's worst possible First Marne nightmare. On the other hand, the German AI also walked into Verdun  For my part, I didn't press the issue in East Prussia (partly because those armies start off unorganized and therefore get really bad activation rolls), and have mostly focused on walloping Austria.
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May 4, 2017 02:33
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  The hole in the western front is huge, but they have to be losing cohesion fast with all of these attacks.  Russian control of Prussia is increasing, I'm going to have to divert troops to try and retake the area.  The Pocket is a mess.  Brusilov is holding it open with a strong force. The Austrians have nothing to combat this.  I'm going to try a smaller pocket here, with 4. Armee trying to weld it shut.  Bulgarian armies are already exhausted.  Its the same thing in the Dardenelles, that or the commanders are unwilling or unable to advance.  The Russians have troops everywhere!  Thankfully, all the English seem to be in France.  The Bulgarians kick off the fighting they take no ground but inflict good losses on the Greeks.  Hindenburg clears the Russians from Ebling, killing them to a man.  The Austrians are pushed back at Lublin.   We give a good showing in Kolo.   Bulow gets drawn into a major battle at Goldap, where he gives Plehve a bloody nose! A lot of the Russian units were exhausted, and easy prey for out (slightly) better rested men.   The Russians send a strong force to try and stop us encircling them, but it does not help them.  We lose ground at Elsass.  The Bulgarians continue to advance.  The Serbians are on the offensive!  We repulse a British attack at Thionville. We destroy several units and it looks like we killed their top ranking general!   Things look bleak on the western front as the powerful main army swings east. I shall order a counter attack into Saarbruken with gas to try and shorten our lines our men are also pulling out of Thionville, which will do the same.  In Prussia a lot of our men need to rest.  As do the troops around Warsaw. (I've giving up on calling this a pocket now. Its more of a sieve.)  Austria is forming a new army in Krackow, but it has to wait for the Generals to get there and it will be short on artillery.  Around Serbia, most unit are also recovering cohesion. We will attack the remaining French in the Dardenelles though!  Unfortunately, the Turks have begun the Armenian Genocide. (This is an event played by the Entente.)  They Entente are working on something codenamed a tank. I myself order a mass of medium and field artillery for my troops.  We pull out at Thionville with minimal losses.  We push the French back as we advance out of Mainz.  Their force in the Dardenelles is doomed as well.   We continue to hold as the Russians advance into Armenia.  Our scouts tell us the Russians are railing a large force through Lublin.  With their eyes fixated on the Polish battlegrounds, I try another attack on Chotin. This will at least draw off more Russians.  We lose a fight in Africa the Boers must not be putting up much of a fight.  Kitchener and one and a half million men attack the Saarbourg forts. There is little we can do against nearly seven thousand artillery pieces.  There is fierce fighting as Samsinov tries to push us back from Warsaw.  The Entente throw another wave of men at us.  Now we hear the the Italians have thrown in their lot with the enemy..... Oh what a wonderful war.
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May 5, 2017 17:48
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We're doomed, time for the worker to overthrow the bourgeois government and institute a People's Republic!
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May 5, 2017 18:43
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Stabbed in the front!
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May 5, 2017 18:56
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TildeATH posted:Stabbed in the front! ...and the back, sides, and probably from above as well. Two front wars kind of suck.
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May 5, 2017 19:37
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Ikasuhito posted:...and the back, sides, and probably from above as well. Especially when you don't strike a decisive blow against at least one of your enemies before they can gather their strength. Things shouldn't really go all that well when you go against the one single plan that your country has in case of a war*. The one they had spent countless hours exercizing and planning, down to precise time tables for troop trains. You can't abandon the Schlieffen plan! Keep the right wing strong! * Really the only plan for German mobilization, it was really quite unthinkable maybe impossible for the German army to not carry out the Schlieffen plan if it was mobilized, virtually everything was built up around doing it. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 21:14
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Italy joined the war pretty quickly, considering the Entente haven't even used political cards to recruit them. Have you been using diplomats, Grey?
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May 5, 2017 21:35
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They were on their way to Italy by submarine last I checked.
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May 5, 2017 21:36
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it's early December and I just had my first Disaster Battle in my own Central Powers game. Potiorek is so goddamn bad.  though, to be fair, Putnik was pretty great HannibalBarca fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 22:55
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I don't get why Kitchener is always taking higher losses than forces he outnumbers ten-to-one. Is defense just that strong? Or is there something dragging him down about having such a vast force?
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May 5, 2017 23:16
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Gort posted:I don't get why Kitchener is always taking higher losses than forces he outnumbers ten-to-one. Is defense just that strong? Or is there something dragging him down about having such a vast force? He may be over the command limit, or there may be some penalty associated with having too many units engaged at once. The AGEOD battle system is kind of opaque about how and why losses are taken.
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May 5, 2017 23:20
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Am I the only one who thinks of General Kushner whenever they read Kitchener?
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May 5, 2017 23:59
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TildeATH posted:Am I the only one who thinks of General Kushner whenever they read Kitchener? I hear "General Cushman", mostly because of the opening bits of this infamous deleted scene from Oliver Stone's Nixon biopic.
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May 6, 2017 00:05
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Yeah time for a socialist revolution.
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May 6, 2017 00:07
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HannibalBarca posted:He may be over the command limit, or there may be some penalty associated with having too many units engaged at once. The AGEOD battle system is kind of opaque about how and why losses are taken. He's almost certainly over the command limit, running into frontage issues, and in an offensive stance against Germans in a defensive stance.
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May 6, 2017 02:34
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At this point I'm imagining Kitchener as a Warhound-titan sized giant striding just behind the first wave of his doomstack. Meanwhile in Austria: for every man that falls, the enemy will lose 0.3-0.5 of a man! I am kinda gleeful about Austrians sucking, even though the soldiers doing the dying technically have nothing to do with it.
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May 7, 2017 07:07
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So, like is there any real material benefit for Turkey apparently taking.. Like all of the MIddle East apparently at this rate without there being any English soldiers supposedly around?
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May 7, 2017 09:17
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Should Kitchener even be available as a British general in the game? I'm pretty sure he didn't take direct military command during the war as he was war minister (though he retained his title as field marshal). He did at one point threaten Sir John French that he would relinquish him of his command and take it himself, but that was more of a threat possibly than something that actually might have gone through (and I believe most of the government did not believe it proper for him to command troops as he held a civilian office). Then again it seems perfectly in character for Kitchener to be this all conquering brutal warlord at the head of 1 and a half million men.
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May 7, 2017 12:13
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