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Kashuno posted:the shuriken build is much better in my experience. you can poke from range and still use your E as an escape tool rather than making your escape tool your main source of damage. Going to go in depth with this more with a basic build. Please note that this is a general build for solo, not TL. TL is a different beast and there's a pretty solid build for 5v5 TL online revolving around Blade Dash. Level 1: There's no real trap pick in these talents, all have their uses and I normally choose based on the map type / what my early game role is going to be. Agile Dismount: My go to pick if I plan on roaming and harassing lanes. It won't get much use in the heat of battle, but it's a great roaming initiator. Jump into a lane, harass and get a kill, then be able to jump out sooner if things get a little worrisome due to the reduced cooldown reduction. Also ties in to level 4 and 13 talents, which I'll go into at level 13. Pathfinder: Situational, but still a solid pick. I normally pick pathfinder up for smaller maps like Tomb/Towers and I anticipate I'm up against a team with heroes who can chase and keep up (I.E. Tracer) Swift as the Wind: Always solid and far less situational pick than the other two. My go to if I don't exactly know how my lanes are going to play out, if I'll have the ability to roam, or on larger maps. Level 4: Shuriken Mastery for this build, no contest. At least for a shuriken based build. I've seen Dragon Claw being used for burst for a Blade Dash / Deflect oriented build, but I've never seen Strike at the Heart used effectively. Level 7: A weak pick located here overall. I highly recommend avoiding Augmented Guard as it is right now. Otherwise: Perfect Defense: Great against very fast auto attack champions like Tracer, who'll unload on you quickly in deflect's short duration. If she auto's you during a deflect, you'll reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds, easily. Cyber Shield: Great pick vs ability damage oriented heroes. Also ties into level 13 talent. Dodge: Great pick vs characters who rely on slower auto attacks, like Artanis/Arthas using D, exc. Level 10: X-strike. Learn to land it. Don't take Dragon Blade for this build, you'll thank me later. Also adds another layer of escape and damage avoidance since it makes you invulnerable/not targetable while it's animation is in use. Level 13: My favorite talent line, for this build take Double Jump. If you grabbed Agile Dismount, normal initiation into a fight is jump from mount from afar (putting your added double jump on a shorter 5 second cd). Once your Shuriken Mastery quest is finished (which it should very well be or very close to be by this time), unload your shurikens. Since your jump gives you two stacks of shurikens, jump and reposition yourself, and unload your next two stacks. By the time you unload your next two, your 2nd jump is available. You can jump again to unload an extra 2 shurikens, saving your blade dash as an escape tool. Something interesting about the shuriken cooldown - the extra shurikens you get from jumping DO NOT count against your actual shuriken ability CD. By the time you unload a total of 7 Shurikens (3 to start, 4 more after 2 jumps) you'll have another 3 shurikens become available if you've blown through everything fast enough. Double Jump also ties into Cyber Shield at Level 7, giving you added ability damage shielding uptime. Level 16: Probably the most non-impactful talent tier for this build. I default on Reflect quite often, finding that Final Cut and Steady Blade don't play well into the build (since this build relies more on Blade Dash being an escape than a damage tool). Level 20: Sharpened Stars. Coupled with all the other Shuriken talents and the ability to gain additional Shuriken stacks, gives Genji some wave clear potential as well as a huge increase of damage in teamfights. Living Weapon is far too situational of a pick, and I only pick Zanshin if we both already have the waveclear potential, teamfight aoe, and if I find myself constantly in the enemy lines.
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May 7, 2017 05:18
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Spudd posted:I really like the Valla VO "Well at least your gear won't lose any durability" I like when Xul respawns and says "What, no corpse run?"
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May 7, 2017 05:19
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A tragedy in pictures... I don't know what is real anymore.   I don't know anything anymore. My ideas of meta are shattered
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May 7, 2017 05:47
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Ciaphas posted:Also double support seems to be re-entering the meta and now I kind of want to kill myself Yeah, and this definitely seems like what Blizzard is pushing as well. Lucio, Uther, Auriel, Tassadar, Lili, and Tyrande are all supports you'd rather see paired with another one of these, or a support that isn't one of these. I guess you could also include Medivh and even Zarya with this. I honestly wonder if Varian's Mortal Strike debuff could help counter this, I think that is unique to only him and Uther's Devotion buff makes that kind of a moot point as well. He could also obviously go anti Shield if there is enough of that on the other team. This also should boost ways to try and lock down healers to burst someone down, meaning more Zeratul/Sylvanas/ETC/Malfurion ults, and more Uther bubble/Tyrael ults to compensate. The double warrior meta may be shifting out in the next few months, depends on what Dva and whatever is after her does. I know they are looking at reworking Morales as well.
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May 7, 2017 05:50
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signalnoise posted:I don't know anything anymore. My ideas of meta are shattered Would love to watch the replay of this, but the guess I would have of it is that team Specialist Ed was constantly a level or more ahead, and that was enough to make Lucio have even more problems solo healing through teamfights, combined with either split pressure and/or Vikings hide-and-go-seek also winning the Objective which the other team could ride behind with Sylv pushing and a Viking or two soaking XP for anything the other team had to gain more xp. I bet the other team would have done better with more support on that team, or better play on keeping the XP similar.
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May 7, 2017 05:56
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CDW posted:Would love to watch the replay of this, but the guess I would have of it is that team Specialist Ed was constantly a level or more ahead, and that was enough to make Lucio have even more problems solo healing through teamfights, combined with either split pressure and/or Vikings hide-and-go-seek also winning the Objective which the other team could ride behind with Sylv pushing and a Viking or two soaking XP for anything the other team had to gain more xp. How to post replays? I have the file somewhere https://www.hotslogs.com/Replays/ShareReplay?ReplayShareID=20414 Does that work signalnoise fucked around with this message at 06:12 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 05:59
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CDW posted:Yeah, and this definitely seems like what Blizzard is pushing as well. Mortal strike debuff as a way to counter healing is always the worst fix to it.
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May 7, 2017 06:21
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chumbler posted:Mortal strike debuff as a way to counter healing is always the worst fix to it. Second worst, after mana drain.
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May 7, 2017 06:24
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chumbler posted:Mortal strike debuff as a way to counter healing is always the worst fix to it. Grevious Wounds works really well in League? I guess without items, that makes it bad because you can't just have it sitting there to be purchased if you need it.
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May 7, 2017 06:33
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Coolness Averted posted:It also helps if it's someone who doesn't get screwed by the bot 'choosing the wrong talent' which I think Raynor, Lili and ETC fit. Yeah this is also pretty important, as far as lili and raynor, there are optimal picks but talents don't really get in the way of "shoot mans" or "mash heal button and blinds" Not sure about etc since his last patch though.
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May 7, 2017 07:11
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Here's a question that might be dumb but I've been practicing Muradin since I got the Marauder skin for him and when do you take Block over the other talents? Not just with him I guess but with any hero who has Block or an equivalent, at what point do you decide to take Block over, say, his hammer quest or Third Wind or something? Is it just "the other team has 2+ really strong autoattackers?" Is Block considered a good pick even in those cases over other talents?
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May 7, 2017 07:17
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Kai Tave posted:Not just with him I guess but with any hero who has Block or an equivalent, at what point do you decide to take Block over, say, his hammer quest or Third Wind or something? Is it just "the other team has 2+ really strong autoattackers?" Pretty much, with the caveat that you don't want to take it when they have someone with super fast autoattacks (Tychus, Tracer, Lucio) that would instantly tear through your stacks of block.
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May 7, 2017 07:46
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I can get grunty murky, twilight shogun artanis, or I can save my free gems. What do I do. 
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May 7, 2017 10:25
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Zaodai posted:Grevious Wounds works really well in League? I guess without items, that makes it bad because you can't just have it sitting there to be purchased if you need it. No it doesn't man, go look up the history of Mortal Strike in WoW to see why it's always just a terrible arms race I'm OK with Varian having it as a unique thing (pretty sure Xul has one too) but the instant it becomes necessary to play the game is the instant I'm checking the gently caress out. He gets it kind of late so I'm not too worried about it ATM.
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May 7, 2017 13:11
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It's kinda funny to me that Varian's Mortal Strike is most useful when he's Fury... I'm the only to get a chuckle from that, aren't I? Xul's Mortal Strike is fine since it's a level 20 talent that has massive competition, if your game goes super late it makes him super dangerous in pubs.
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May 7, 2017 13:15
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Spudd posted:It's kinda funny to me that Varian's Mortal Strike is most useful when he's Fury... I'm the only to get a chuckle from that, aren't I? Yeah, I prefer that if they WERE going to do the arms race poo poo, make them level 20 talents. Xul's is great for that reason, and even Varian's is fine (right now) because healers are not THAT oppressive. Frankly, even if double support is becoming meta, Varian can't counter it THAT hard on his own, and I'm pretty sure there are better ways than loving Mortal Strike.
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May 7, 2017 13:23
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Poultron posted:Yeah, I prefer that if they WERE going to do the arms race poo poo, make them level 20 talents. Xul's is great for that reason, and even Varian's is fine (right now) because healers are not THAT oppressive. Frankly, even if double support is becoming meta, Varian can't counter it THAT hard on his own, and I'm pretty sure there are better ways than loving Mortal Strike. You're right, I'm not a designer or anything so I can't think of a way to gently caress over healing without making playing a healer unfun. I think at the moment it's fine, but I'm a scrub and don't get this game at a super high level. Like I'm watching HGC Korea right now and I don't get how everyone is always so full on life at all times unlike in my games where I usually run around at about 30% health all game. 
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May 7, 2017 13:29
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Give healers slightly lower heal numbers, slightly higher dps numbers..?
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May 7, 2017 13:40
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There are plenty of solutions, but for example DOTA solves this by making healing both rare and expensive.
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May 7, 2017 13:42
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I don't want this to be like Dota though
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May 7, 2017 13:43
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Spudd posted:I don't want this to be like Dota though Then healers will always be oppressive and weird. EDIT: Or horribly awful to play
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May 7, 2017 13:44
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It'd be cool if healing was reduced by ~20% across the board, but utility was buffed accordingly. It's way more interesting to have supports making plays than sitting back and healbotting.
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May 7, 2017 15:06
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That's exactly how you get double or triple support comps. Not that this is a bad thing, it's just a shift in the meta, and we know how well MOBA players handle change.
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May 7, 2017 15:36
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HelixFox posted:It'd be cool if healing was reduced by ~20% across the board, but utility was buffed accordingly. It's way more interesting to have supports making plays than sitting back and healbotting. This is literally what happened with Tassadar (and now Li Li) and now they're everywhere. BrianBoitano posted:That's exactly how you get double or triple support comps.
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May 7, 2017 15:45
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BrianBoitano posted:That's exactly how you get double or triple support comps. Not that this is a bad thing, it's just a shift in the meta, and we know how well MOBA players handle change. I think it is a bad thing, as long as support continues to be the role with the least amount of heroes by a wide (and ever increasing, because supports don't sell) margin.
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May 7, 2017 15:51
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Healers: Not even once.
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May 7, 2017 15:51
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Also I didn't want to rush to judgment on the new map, but HOLY poo poo it really is like they took every fundamental problem with all the least popular maps, dialed them up to 11 and jammed them all into a single map. In a way it's almost impressive.
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May 7, 2017 15:56
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Double support is fine if the supports are fun and interesting to play as. But yes there needs to be like 2x the number of supports than there are currently.
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May 7, 2017 15:58
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Gustav posted:I think it is a bad thing, as long as support continues to be the role with the least amount of heroes by a wide (and ever increasing, because supports don't sell) margin. Nobody wants to be the healer because they want to be huge e-peen assassin with the highest K/D ratio that complains about how the rest of the team sucks at keeping them alive when they get caught out 1v3+.
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May 7, 2017 16:00
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HOTS healers are fun with the exception of Morales and Rehgar depending on how much they want him to be a backline healbot that day.
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May 7, 2017 16:02
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Yeah not a huge fan of playing as morales, she is a little dry, but the rest of the supports I have fun with because of the utility I can bring to a fight. I really enjoy tassadar and brightwing in qm because of the anti stealth hero toolkit options. It's always funny to pop oracle a couple seconds after I see a shimmer in a team fight so you can catch them way out of place. Also getting the reveal for brightwings teleport or polymorphing valeera as she starts her combo. If you have ever wanted to get some payback on stealth qm people, those two are my favorite.
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May 7, 2017 16:58
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The biggest reason why I'm a little hesitant to play support is their lack of non-fight utility. Can't clear waves, can't grab camps, can't even really soak unless your team is playing smart (in which case lanes would already be soaked). It's very frustrating when poo poo needs to be handled on the map and everyone just wants to teamfight teamfight teamfight and then we lose because we fall behind on XP and oops now we have to decide between contesting objective and giving them a free keep. Those are the games where I'm watching helplessly as perfectly winnable games are given away for free, and if I was playing any other role except support and a small handful of tanks I would be able to do something about it.
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May 7, 2017 17:04
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Yeah the "Nobody plays support because they want MLG pro kda" argument is usually not true. Nobody wants to play support because it means losing a ton of ability to influence the outcome of the game due to how narrowly supports are typically made.
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May 7, 2017 17:17
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Yeah, I usually love healing in multiplayer games. In this game solo queuing as a healer is a total crapshoot where you're almost entirely at the mercy of your teammates.
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May 7, 2017 17:28
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I keep coming back to Murky. Just throwing that dumb exploding fish and locking someone down within its silly explosion radius, then sliming them and floating off. I also love anything involving split pushing and mercing around. I found Murky's good for getting the turrets on Hanamura, which you can then pair with your fish and the tentacle stun for cool damage.
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May 7, 2017 17:36
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Fellatio del Toro posted:Yeah, I usually love healing in multiplayer games. In this game solo queuing as a healer is a total crapshoot where you're almost entirely at the mercy of your teammates. This. I love healing in a five man, but in QM I can run malfurion, heal the other four members of my team back to full from near zero, and then they will still lose a fight. Followed shortly by 'omg bad malfurion'. Unfortunately most of my actual gaming friends abandoned this game for an obscure one called 'League of Legends', whatever that means, so I'm left at the mercy of QM.
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May 7, 2017 17:42
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I think all healing in this game should basically be like Auriel's, where it's largely a function of DPS and of the target's DPS, and the healer is forced to fight actively and provide utility to be able to heal.
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May 7, 2017 17:45
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Morales is one of the few supports I actually enjoy playing.
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May 7, 2017 17:48
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Airspace posted:This. I love healing in a five man, but in QM I can run malfurion, heal the other four members of my team back to full from near zero, and then they will still lose a fight. In teamfights I don't agree that supports are particularly low impact. A great malf can make a huge difference with well placed roots, cleanses and ults, and his dps while not assassin-level still makes a noticeable difference. I mean the ult alone, holy poo poo it swings fights so hard. I just wish some of those things would translate over to other aspects of the game too. Gustav fucked around with this message at 18:02 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 18:00
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If I want serious frontline impact in my healer, I go Kharazim or Rehgar. Kharazim builds a DPS spec even when healing, so you he's great in comps where you have folks who can dive with you on the enemy backline. As Rehgar, Taking double lightning shield at 1 allows you to bully just about any lane with a buddy and even allows you strong solo wave clear and merc camps if you just cast the initial shield on your totem.
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May 7, 2017 18:19
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