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webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
Just do something like this in Rome:
https://travelnuity.com/2015/07/48-hours-in-rome/

And then something like this in Amalfi:
https://travelnuity.com/2015/05/day-trips-from-sorrento/

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webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

Saladman posted:

Large parts of Italy are hard to plan since it's a tough trade off between seeing more in one place, or seeing different parts of it that are very distinct. People who travel a lot around Europe always recommend the first, but i don't know if that's because of experience for the latter being a miserable itinerary of rushing to and from planes and trains (which it is) or because of a mindset of "well I'll probably be back soon anyway". Many of my American friends when they visit seem to think they'll never be back and they have to see all of Europe in that one week every 5 years they come over. It's amazing to remember the differences between their first Eurotrips and what they're planning now (about 10 years since I moved, and have had maybe 10-15 friends come over)

I think it's because most Americans get a comically small amount of paid time off (and often use it for non-holiday things like maternity leave, sickness etc). So there's a real mentality of packing in as much as possible when the opportunity arises, whereas Europeans and Australians get variously 4-6 weeks per year so there isn't the same need to max things out.

But yeah, moving around a lot is something most people do on their first trip and regret it, hence why a lot of people here recommend against it.

Chocolate Milk
May 7, 2008

More tea, Wesley?
Yeah even if you only get one week in Europe every five years, I'd say you're better off spending that time in one big place (Rome, London etc) with maybe a day trip or two, or a couple of smaller cities (Budapest, Prague etc). What you don't want to do is try to see everywhere because your time will get eaten up by transport and stressing about transport.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice
I almost didn't post this after the last few posts about staying in one place, but meh, here goes anyway. What tips do you guys have for someone with two weeks in Switzerland, starting in Zurich, and the only absolute must-dos are (1) take the Glacier Express between Zermatt and St. Moritz, (2) take the Bernina Express from St. Moritz to Tirano, and (3) do a bit of hiking in the Zermatt area? (I don't ski, so if I go up in a funicular/cable car, I'm coming back down in one, too.)

Apart from that, I thought I could squeeze in several days in Geneva, or go crazy and try to spend a day or two in Grenoble. I'm not averse to driving, but would much rather use trains or buses. Or even cheap local flights if need be.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Chocolate Milk posted:

Yeah even if you only get one week in Europe every five years, I'd say you're better off spending that time in one big place (Rome, London etc) with maybe a day trip or two, or a couple of smaller cities (Budapest, Prague etc). What you don't want to do is try to see everywhere because your time will get eaten up by transport and stressing about transport.

That's true, though for some people the transport itself is a "destination." I enjoy seeing parts of the country by train. You can also do sleeper trains to avoid getting time eaten up too much.

actionjackson fucked around with this message at 17:31 on May 7, 2017

Cheesemaster200
Feb 11, 2004

Guard of the Citadel

WaryWarren posted:

amalfi and cinque terre are so overrated. and the locals hate the tourists there. not that an american tourist would be self-aware enough to notice. there was an article in the guardian this week about venice planning to ban fast food/kebab shops in a fruitless effort to retain some of their distinct culture. also, a lot of "tourists go home" flyers plastered on buildings. last time i was there, i noticed that there is a large disney store near san marco. lol

also saw this wandering around:

i had more fun when i lived there going to ravenna (8 unesco sites), bologna, genoa, bergamo, lucca, catania... so many great, smaller cities where you can avoid a lot of the tourist crush. gently caress piacenza though.

I am taking the lady over to Italy for two weeks at the end of this month. I spent a weekend in Rome back in 2005 when I was studying abroad, and never really had much of an inclination to go back due to the proliferation of tour groups. This time we are going to Venice, Florence and Rome so we can say we have been to these places while removing any guilt if I never go back. I am bracing for crowds, but tried to reserve all the major things in advance. Likewise, we are staying what I am hoping is a bit off the beaten path in Venice, so hopefully we can chill around places that don't get the cruise ship crush.

caberham
Mar 18, 2009

by Smythe
Grimey Drawer
If you really want off the beaten path in Venice, then pop over to Padova!

Well it's a nice area

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.

ibntumart posted:

I almost didn't post this after the last few posts about staying in one place, but meh, here goes anyway. What tips do you guys have for someone with two weeks in Switzerland, starting in Zurich, and the only absolute must-dos are (1) take the Glacier Express between Zermatt and St. Moritz, (2) take the Bernina Express from St. Moritz to Tirano, and (3) do a bit of hiking in the Zermatt area? (I don't ski, so if I go up in a funicular/cable car, I'm coming back down in one, too.)

Apart from that, I thought I could squeeze in several days in Geneva, or go crazy and try to spend a day or two in Grenoble. I'm not averse to driving, but would much rather use trains or buses. Or even cheap local flights if need be.


Two weeks in a smaller country like Switzerland is a pretty different proposition to be honest dude.

webmeister fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 7, 2017

caberham
Mar 18, 2009

by Smythe
Grimey Drawer
Swiss roads are fun to drive on, beautiful mountains and easy traffic, good ettiquette and parking. Beats driving around Italy

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



ibntumart posted:

I almost didn't post this after the last few posts about staying in one place, but meh, here goes anyway. What tips do you guys have for someone with two weeks in Switzerland, starting in Zurich, and the only absolute must-dos are (1) take the Glacier Express between Zermatt and St. Moritz, (2) take the Bernina Express from St. Moritz to Tirano, and (3) do a bit of hiking in the Zermatt area? (I don't ski, so if I go up in a funicular/cable car, I'm coming back down in one, too.)

Apart from that, I thought I could squeeze in several days in Geneva, or go crazy and try to spend a day or two in Grenoble. I'm not averse to driving, but would much rather use trains or buses. Or even cheap local flights if need be.

Geneva is like one or two days max and that's if you can get a tour of CERN and the UN. There's really not a lot to see there and IMO the atmosphere really sucks. Lausanne is more scenic and has a better walking around vibe. Montreux and the valley down to Martigny (or up to Leysin on a cog train) are really gorgeous but there's not much to do besides hiking and biking. Bern is where I live now and I love it but I don't think it's much of a tourist destination. We have a UNESCO world heritage site that's like half of the main city center but a stroll through there, going up the cathedral tower and then visiting the bears is about it. You could go up the Gurten and have nice views of the alps too, I guess. Interlaken is overrated IMO, going up the Jungfrau costs an insane amount of money and it's really hit or miss with the weather. Luzern is pretty and there is some great scenery around there, you can take a cable car up and get some fantastic views and do a little hiking. Rheinfalls is nice, Lake Constance, the Engadin, Lugano, ... If you like walking and being outside, Switzerland is pretty nice. Not much in the way of must-do attractions though.

Trains are really expensive here. I find it hard to recommend the day passes because it seems like you only get good value if you literally spend all day on the train (stay in one hotel, leave early, go somewhere at least an hour or two away, come back at the end of the day), although you do have the convenience of never needing to buy a ticket except for the extremely touristy routes (Jungfrau). The good thing about Swiss trains is that the prices are completely transparent: you pay by distance, it's always the same price no matter when you travel or when you book (although there are some saver routes you can find, their website is pretty easy to use). So you can check the individual prices of the tickets and the various travel card options and see what you have to do to make it work. If you really want to ride trains for 2 weeks, I'd recommend getting a half-fare travel card for $120 and then just booking tickets as you need them using the SBB app on your phone (if you have roaming data). Otherwise you buy tickets in a machine or at the counter and it's easy even if you only speak English. The half-fare card looks like it saves you a huge whack on your panoramic routes too (first class for cheaper than second class?) but it also seems like I'm not reading it right and you should definitely call SBB or send them an email.



edit: oh and I forgot to say thanks to everyone for all the Olso tips! Skål!

greazeball fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 7, 2017

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

caberham posted:

Swiss roads are fun to drive on, beautiful mountains and easy traffic, good ettiquette and parking. Beats driving around Italy

I'm not averse to driving around at all, but I think I still would have to take alternate transportation to and around Zermatt, no? My understanding is cars aren't allowed (except tiny electric ones that I probably wouldn't enjoy driving very far in).

greazeball posted:

lots of helpful information

As far as Geneva's concerned, mostly it's to see Lake Geneva. I am fine with just a day in the city and moving on. I do want to hike around a bit and to enjoy beautiful vistas, but that is what the several days in Zermatt and scenic train tours are for. I think I may try spending some time in Lyon and maybe Grenoble as well.

Based on your comment and Caberham's, driving has begun to sound more attractive for at least part of my trip. I'll take your advice about researching tickets and also start looking at rental prices.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004


Lausanne is a cool place, yeah forget Geneva. If you find yourself in Montreux and want to hang out on the lake check out Le Palais Oriental. Not been there for some years since we moved but was lovely sitting outside with mint tea and some nibbles. Great lake and people watching and good middle eastern food if you feel like splurging.

Vevey is also chill and nice with a good market but again, more for the lake views etc. though Le Bout Du Monde is a great slightly louche bar.

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008

Saladman posted:

Isnt that just one day in Rome, and isn't that one day the same day you arrive from Amsterdam? Also if all things are equal try to fly into Rome city airport and not FCO which is quite a lot farther away. One day in Rome, as the same day you fly in, is enough time to see like one thing and get out. So colosseum or old city or vatican, but not both. I had three days in Rome my first time there and hoo that was a rush getting to the major "must see" sites, all of which are fantastic. Forum might be skippable since you're going to the Vesuvius ruins (though it's still quite different) but missing the medieval city or saint peters, even if you're not remotely religious, would be a bummer. The colosseum could be appreciated from the outside of you're in a huge rush or money crunch, I guess. You can also get an idea of the forum by walking around the outside (it is next to the colosseum, though quite large). Again better to buy the ticket and walk through but it'll take you 3 hours you don't seem to have.

2-3 days in Amalfi is IMO too much on this crushed itinerary. id suggest one day there and add the other 1-2 days to Rome (if you really only had a half day same as flight in day). If you really want to do Capri you can get a ferry direct from Naples. It is expensive and if money is a significant issue id just do sorrento by train.

Large parts of Italy are hard to plan since it's a tough trade off between seeing more in one place, or seeing different parts of it that are very distinct. People who travel a lot around Europe always recommend the first, but i don't know if that's because of experience for the latter being a miserable itinerary of rushing to and from planes and trains (which it is) or because of a mindset of "well I'll probably be back soon anyway". Many of my American friends when they visit seem to think they'll never be back and they have to see all of Europe in that one week every 5 years they come over. It's amazing to remember the differences between their first Eurotrips and what they're planning now (about 10 years since I moved, and have had maybe 10-15 friends come over)

Very much appreciate this but we are not trying to do Rome at all. We'd rather relax on a beach in Amalfi or do Pompeii. Rome deserves more time than we have and we both know that.

I believe we will be departing to Cologne saturday out of rome, however there are tickets that are cheaper available from Palermo. I have heard its dirty and dangerous and best to avoid...is this true?

Julio Cruz
May 19, 2006

Waroduce posted:

Very much appreciate this but we are not trying to do Rome at all. We'd rather relax on a beach in Amalfi or do Pompeii. Rome deserves more time than we have and we both know that.

I believe we will be departing to Cologne saturday out of rome, however there are tickets that are cheaper available from Palermo. I have heard its dirty and dangerous and best to avoid...is this true?

You're going to have to fly (or take a full-day train) to even get to Palermo from Pompeii or Amalfi. I wouldn't bother even if the tickets from there were free.

Waroduce
Aug 5, 2008

Julio Cruz posted:

You're going to have to fly (or take a full-day train) to even get to Palermo from Pompeii or Amalfi. I wouldn't bother even if the tickets from there were free.

Thank you

Tricky Ed
Aug 18, 2010

It is important to avoid confusion. This is the one that's okay to lick.


If you're not going to "do" Rome, I'd definitely recommend just flying to NAP (directly, if you can, but you'll probably have to connect through FCO). It's still at least an hour to get from Naples to Sorrento, and you'll want all the time you can get to explore once you're there.

To speak more broadly about travel in Italy, it does seem best when you're unhurried and have little to no itinerary set. In general every day's going to bring you something unexpected and your reaction to it is what determines if it's a charming little adventure or a terrible mishap that threw off your schedule and ruined the day.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

It looks like my Scotland trip is going to be in the middle of the Scottish rain season (how many months per year was that again)?

I'm going to enjoy my mountain hike in that weather.

Saladman
Jan 12, 2010

ibntumart posted:

I'm not averse to driving around at all, but I think I still would have to take alternate transportation to and around Zermatt, no? My understanding is cars aren't allowed (except tiny electric ones that I probably wouldn't enjoy driving very far in).


As far as Geneva's concerned, mostly it's to see Lake Geneva. I am fine with just a day in the city and moving on. I do want to hike around a bit and to enjoy beautiful vistas, but that is what the several days in Zermatt and scenic train tours are for. I think I may try spending some time in Lyon and maybe Grenoble as well.

Based on your comment and Caberham's, driving has begun to sound more attractive for at least part of my trip. I'll take your advice about researching tickets and also start looking at rental prices.

Geneva is actually the worst place on the entire lake to see Lake Geneva because (a) the lake curves up and the semi-peninsula of Yvoire blocks your view, and (b - much more important) you're looking north towards the Jura foothills or east towards Les Voirons and la Saleve which block your view of the alps and, while nice, are not particularly stunning mountains compared to Mont Blanc, which can be clearly seen from Morges on a good day, and less clearly from other cities on other days (there is a particularly good break in the foothills from Morges looking towards MB).

Zermatt you have to park in Täsch and take the train, unless you're an idiot and drive the entire way like me (don't do that; I kept expecting a barrier but in fact there is just a sign with 500 words in German where the road narrows to one lane; I parked in a mechanic's shop since fortunately it was Sunday). If you go the train routes and are not a billionaire, it is essential that you buy the half price card as the first thing you do: https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/travel-in-switzerland/international-guests/swiss-halffare-card.html . You're looking at easily >$700/each in public transit fees during your two weeks in Switzerland, which could be almost-halved by the half price card. That half price card will pay for itself entirely just in the trip from Zurich to Geneva, and it is also good on Jungfrau and boats and etc. For two travelers, a rental car will be cheaper in the long run (±30/day + ±10/day gas + ±10/day parking on average) even than the train with half-price card if you can drive a manual. Automatics will cost slightly more (±10/day). Cheapest rental car for two weeks = ±$700 all-in, cheapest public transit with half price card = ±$1100 (sum of two people). Car is somewhat more of a hassle due to parking, but driving in Switzerland is easy, just omfg do not speed ever for any reason for any circumstance.

Did you say what season you're going in? If late June or later, nearly every mountain you can walk to the top so you don't need to take the very expensive cable cars if you are fit, with the exception of Jungfrau which cannot be reasonably hiked. (Plus, more importantly, you are hiking instead of being taken to the top by a lift). If hiking, do not do Pilatus or any of the other super famous ones on the weekend. Actually just in general try and plan your hiking days monday through friday as this will reduce he number of people a lot. It's never really crowded, but it's just always nicer to not have a ton of people around.

If it's raining when you're in Switzerland, this can be quite a bummer as there's not that much to do in any city. For Lausanne (where I lived for 6-7 years), the Musee de l'Art Brut is amazing and is the #1 rainy-day museum recommendation I have. Interlaken is overrated and the city itself is one of the ugliest in all of Switzerland IMO. Go/stay in Thun instead and just pass through Interlaken and check it out for half an hour when you go through by train. Davos is also surprisingly ugly. St Moritz, Zermatt, and Saas Fee are all cute mountain towns though very rich and not really representative of the average.

Also one place that's cool that was not mentioned: Einsielden is a really impressive massive monastery on the way to the Grand Mythen hike. If you're going by train, hiking from Brunni over the Grosser Mythen and down to Schywz is one of my favorite fairly easy hikes. There's even a lift that cuts off like 1.5 hours of the hike if you're lazy.

Ticino hasn't been mentioned, but is also part of Switzerland and is great to visit and to hike in. Again, not much on "sites to see" (with the exception of Bellinzona's castles, but must be sunny to appreciate). Monte San Giorgio has great views and again can cable car or easily hike to the top.

I've lived in the German and French parts of Switzerland for many years, so feel free to ask for more info by PM or here. I don't know Ticino any better than an average tourist who's spent a week there, unfortunately, although maybe that will change with the Gotthard Base Tunnel.

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Carbon dioxide posted:

It looks like my Scotland trip is going to be in the middle of the Scottish rain season (how many months per year was that again)?
Is it even possible to go on one that isn't?

Boz0r
Sep 7, 2006
The Rocketship in action.
Where should I go in Greece if I want to chill, and maybe check out a bit of nature and sights, but not swarmed with other tourists?

Helios Grime
Jan 27, 2012

Where we are going we won't need shirts
Pillbug

greazeball posted:

Bern is where I live now and I love it but I don't think it's much of a tourist destination.

Oh come on that isn't true. Surely it depends in which time of year you go but you can easily spend a whole day here. I recommend you just go through their website http://www.bern.com/en/ and you should be able to see if it is something that would Interest you ibntumart.


I also strongly recommend to go to Montreux to see the lake.

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



OK I guess that came out wrong. Compared to Rome, Paris, Barcelona, etc. Bern doesn't have a spectacular, must-see destination. But compared to other Swiss cities... Luzern has a bridge. Geneva has a water fountain. Interlaken has a train that takes you away from Interlaken. Bern's old town is really quite nice. But it's one of those towns where you just have to wander around and be charmed, it's not exactly going to get in your face and wow you. Thun is cute as well, that was one of many good tips from Saladman.


If you want to do anything outside, check this site to see all the walking, hiking, cycling, rollerblading and canoeing routes all over the country: http://www.schweizmobil.ch/en/schweizmobil.html This is publicly supported so the routes are very well signposted up and down the entire country, it's one of my favourite things about living here. They have a pretty good app but you need to pay for a year's membership if you want to use the maps offline.

Helios Grime
Jan 27, 2012

Where we are going we won't need shirts
Pillbug
I guess it's just the difference of living in a place or just visiting it. Cause I grew up in Thun and cannot imagine why you would wan't to see it (the town itself, the vista is pretty drat nice).

greazeball
Feb 4, 2003



But there's a castle in Thun! :kiddo: The lakeside views are spectacular, the Bälliz is quite cute the way it sits in the river and there's that other shopping area with arcades and 2 levels of shops which is charming as well. And the bridge is older than the one in Luzern now they had to rebuild it.

LiterallyATomato
Mar 17, 2009

Hey! Tell me about visiting Copenhagen. My Danish-American father in law wants to see it, and I'd be along for the ride.

asur
Dec 28, 2012

Waroduce posted:

Very much appreciate this but we are not trying to do Rome at all. We'd rather relax on a beach in Amalfi or do Pompeii. Rome deserves more time than we have and we both know that.

I believe we will be departing to Cologne saturday out of rome, however there are tickets that are cheaper available from Palermo. I have heard its dirty and dangerous and best to avoid...is this true?

No, that's complete garbage.

NLJP
Aug 26, 2004


I forgot Musee de L'art Brut in Lausanne! Yeah that place owns. Probably the best museum in the area.

Fondation Pierre Gianadda in Martigny is also worth a shufti if in the area.

The Schwa
Jul 1, 2008

Waroduce posted:

Very much appreciate this but we are not trying to do Rome at all. We'd rather relax on a beach in Amalfi or do Pompeii. Rome deserves more time than we have and we both know that.

I believe we will be departing to Cologne saturday out of rome, however there are tickets that are cheaper available from Palermo. I have heard its dirty and dangerous and best to avoid...is this true?

Out of interest, what have people's experiences been with traveling to places with this kind of reputation (or other negative reputations)?

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

TequilaJesus posted:

Hey! Tell me about visiting Copenhagen. My Danish-American father in law wants to see it, and I'd be along for the ride.

There's a lot of cool stuff in Copenhagen. First of, the national museum is free to visit so that's cool if you are interested in that.
You can visit the Carlsberg brewery if you like.

The Tivoli theme park in the middle of the city is famous of course.

Other than that, things every tourist visits are the royal palaces (or at least they walk around them), the Round Tower, and the Church of Our Savior, the last of which has a tower with a spiral staircase on the outside, so that's fun to climb.

There's also a lot of stuff about HC Andersen. There's a Ripley's Believe it Or Not about him - so if you've ever been to any Ripley's, you know what to expect. Of course there's the little mermaid statue which is tiny and boring and always surrounded by Asian tourists. What I also found interesting was seeing the graves of Andersen and some other famous Danes such as Niels Bohr and Kierkegaard on the graveyard.

If you're interested in that, you can take a ferry to the harbor area across the water. Over there you can get a tour on a large military ship and in a military submarine.

But to me, by far the most interesting part of Copenhagen is Christiania, which is an area that declared itself independent, and for the most part the Danish authorities let them be. It feels like a sort of hippie town. In the main street of Christiania, there's always people selling weed, which is illegal in Denmark, so keep your camera out of sight or they might beat you up. Christiania might get a bit shady at night, but it's cool to visit during the day, especially if you walk all the way to the back part which is a forested area with the occassional house built by people with no sense of architecture. When I was there, I took the tour which they offer once a day in weekends. That's completely unorganized, just wait near the main entrance of the area at 3 pm and some random person will show up and tell you they are the tour guide.

Just know that Christiania is barely connected to anything (many houses don't even have electricity - the whole place is quite sad in many ways), so make sure to bring cash change if you want to take the tour or if you want to buy a drink at one of the cafes.

Other than that, places to see are Strøget, a long pedestrian-only shopping street that often has street performers, and Nyhavn, the harbor area with nice colourful buildings. Plenty of good pubs and restaurants too - make sure to try Smørrebrød, the Danish open-faced sandwich full of delicious toppings.

If you have any time left, I can recommend renting a bike. Copenhagen, and Denmark in general, is very bike-friendly. There's separated bike paths in most places, and that way you can explore some of the countryside around Copenhagen. Another option, while you're in the Schengen zone anyway, is take a quick train trip to Sweden. Malmö is the first city on the other side of the border. It isn't too interesting but it does have a nice couple of museums. And after your ears are bleeding from the Danish language, hearing Swedish for a few hours is a huge relief. Just remember that Danish Kroner (the currency) is different from Swedish Krona.

Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 9, 2017

Julio Cruz
May 19, 2006

The Schwa posted:

Out of interest, what have people's experiences been with traveling to places with this kind of reputation (or other negative reputations)?

Literally nowhere in Europe is actually "dangerous", so whenever anyone claims otherwise it's a good way to show that they're totally full of poo poo.

caberham
Mar 18, 2009

by Smythe
Grimey Drawer
Gross and grimy? sure maybe. DANGEROUS? Yeah ok, then just don't go. No one can really rationally convince you it's safe

Julio Cruz posted:

Literally nowhere in Europe is actually "dangerous", so whenever anyone claims otherwise it's a good way to show that they're totally full of poo poo.

Getting killed by terrorists is still statistically lower than being hit by lightning even in light of the recent hosed up events.

It's as much merit as saying you will get shot if you go to the USA as a tourist going to touristy areas.

Then again, don't go to dark alleyways and really weird random places.

Julio Cruz
May 19, 2006

caberham posted:

Then again, don't go to dark alleyways and really weird random places.

For sure, but that's something that you wouldn't do at home either. The "dangerous" rumors start because someone went to another country and decided to have a day off from common sense, then tried to blame the country rather than taking any blame themselves.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

Julio Cruz posted:

For sure, but that's something that you wouldn't do at home either. The "dangerous" rumors start because someone went to another country and decided to have a day off from common sense, then tried to blame the country rather than taking any blame themselves.

Also if you have to believe the US government site that has a page per country about what Americans should consider before visiting it, they make it sound that you'll get mugged in literally any country that's not the USA.

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
The biggest risk in Europe is pickpockets and if you're an idiot, scams. I came across a couple of groups doing the "let's all bet on the hide-the-ball game" scam in Paris last week and it's just comically obvious how the scam works. Though the guys at Sacre-Coer trying to tie threads around your wrist "for tradition bro" (20 euros) were way more intimidating!

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

The Schwa posted:

Out of interest, what have people's experiences been with traveling to places with this kind of reputation (or other negative reputations)?

Literally completely fine.

I've never, ever felt unsafe anywhere in Europe as a young female often going around alone. That includes a bunch of sketchy parts of Mostar, Bosnia and the "bad" parts of Paris.

A lot of the times it's just code for "there's black people living here and I didn't realize there would be".

webmeister posted:

The biggest risk in Europe is pickpockets and if you're an idiot, scams. I came across a couple of groups doing the "let's all bet on the hide-the-ball game" scam in Paris last week and it's just comically obvious how the scam works. Though the guys at Sacre-Coer trying to tie threads around your wrist "for tradition bro" (20 euros) were way more intimidating!
Haha I got a really persistent dude trying to get me to pay 20E for a rose last time I was at Sacre-Coeur. I told him to gently caress off in French a few times and he didn't, so I just looked surprised and went "police!" looking behind him, and the guy could not have disappeared faster.

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
I had to laugh because one of those thread guys managed to engage me by making a comment about my dog, which although I didn't stop or do anything other than chuckle, obviously translated to him as "easy mark". He went as far as grabbing my arm to stop me from walking past, and when I yelled out angrily he was like "cmon bro, be friendly, don't be Chinese, be friendly!" Got another laugh at least, though it still didn't stop me from walking away.

lavaca
Jun 11, 2010
I work for a cruise line and got to spend a week in Palermo for a drydock last month. It is definitely a bit sketchy if you are hanging around outside the shipyard after dark but that is true about most places. The worst thing that's likely to happen to you in the tourist-y part is that an African guy will insist you give him a euro for "saving" a parking spot for you.

(The real issue here is that there is that Palermo itself isn't a very interesting tourist destination unless you're there as part of a trip around Sicily. The airport is miles outside of town and most of the sights can be seen in a day. I did enjoy the street food and the Arab-Norman architecture.)

The Schwa
Jul 1, 2008

Thanks for the responses, pretty much exactly what I'd figured. I was thinking particularly of Naples, which seems like people talk a lot about how dirty and dangerous it is :ohdear:

unsurprisingly it was fine

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014
"Nothing is dangerous" is just as stupid a stance as "We will get murdered". The point with "dangerous" or "dodgy" areas is that they might be perfectly fine, and mostly will be, until they are not. People who know the place or who are used to its workings will be fine, which doesn't mean anybody will always be fine, and which especially doesn't mean that a country bumpkin from the other side of the globe will know how to navigate the place. This boils down to an aggretation of "perhaps don't trapse around unbeknownst in the middle of the night in an area you do not know while waving around your expensive smartphone, eying up somebody in an alleyway. Is Europe safe? Sure. Can you get mugged or beaten up for abitrary reasons anyway? Sure. Are you capable of correctly assessing situations in a foreign country, in a language you do not speak and in a culture you do not know or understand? Brilliant, you'll be right.

Clearly, this is not Europe-specific but somewhat more universal.

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orange sky
May 7, 2007

Visit Portugal's got some really good videos of Portugal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptUu2pWPz9I

But they created a campaign recently and (in my opinion) it's the smuggest most boring poo poo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbo9a9D2dlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oJ04RovaGg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBxGtdDZJI

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