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It'll have to be the coast. It'll be bloody, but we're at a point where the longer this goes on the worse it is so attempting caution gets us nothing. Is there a way to get von Hoff some artillery? some old rear end SMERCHes would probably do a lot to make thier assault a lot smoother.
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May 8, 2017 00:38
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Obviously we should get some MiG-28 Finbacks.
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May 8, 2017 00:38
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Yooper: Could Mbeke's rangers even reach Luanda in the time that we have left? If not, how far up the coast could they get? The most realistic, but boring, option is probably to capture the remaining lithium mines along the coast to give the count the best possible bargaining position.
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May 8, 2017 00:39
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Alright we've got two missions to end this thing. If we take this chance to really obliterate whatever he's got along the coast, and then use the next one to turbofuck the capital and anything Dos Santos has left will probably net us a decent amount of land and put the Count in a respectable bargaining position. Alternatively, Dos Santos has been acting a bit erratic recently. The attempt to buy us off and promising to rain hellfire down on us if we stay implies that he's really, REALLY worried about us - and specifically, what we did last mission. Hitting the Defense Ministry was a massive middle finger to him, and showed the whole world he can't even protect somewhere 500 yards from his house, much less run a country. Taking the opportunity to hit him again, and HARD, could potentially collapse the regime and then still leave us with a mission to consolidate and/or roll up the Free State. Really, depends on whether you want to take a risk on winning it all with a capital strike, or making much safer moderate gains by supporting an advance up the coast. Personally, I like the idea of hitting the capital. Crazy high-risk ops are kinda what we do here. We were right on the edge of Entebbe-ing a wing of 5th gen stealth fighters last theater, and only didn't go through with it because we didn't have the resources. Even then, we went with a plan about as crazy as we could and ended up killing world-class fighters with lovely 1st gen trainers. Sure, we only pulled it off with razor thin margins, but we got it done. This time, we actually do have the resources and the time to pull off something truly audacious. We're the Hired Goons, and we get things done. Let's get it done again. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 00:53 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 00:44
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We need a decapitation. Capital Strike. gently caress him up.
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May 8, 2017 00:53
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Capital Strike. We're in it to win it, not to call it a draw thanks to the Chinese hateboner for us.
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May 8, 2017 00:56
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China won't side with Von Hoff if they have any other options, because they hate our guts. Our best chance is to make it so that the Count holds most of the Lithium mines, and is the only real figure to negotiate with. The Free State have no such person by their own nature, so that just leaves our man and the dictator. We need to kill the dictator and leave Von Hoff as the only one left in a position to negotiate at all. This would be more easily accomplished if we had ground intel to tell us where the Dictator will be. Instead, we'll have to hit everywhere he might be that won't put us in the news for warcrimes. paragon1 fucked around with this message at 01:01 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 00:58
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paragon1 posted:China won't side with Von Hoff if they have any other options, because they hate our guts. Our best chance is to make it so that the Count holds most of the Lithium mines, and is the only real figure to negotiate with. The Free State have no such person by their own nature, so that just leaves our man and the dictator. We need to kill the dictator and leave Von Hoff as the only one left in a position to negotiate at all. Not Empty Quoting. edit: The bad news is, China is sending an Escort Carrier equivalent, so if they somehow show up during the operation, they will have plenty of means to gently caress with our air. The good news is, those tiny little Escort Carrier equivalents can't launch proper bombers, so their A2G options will be somewhat limited. Groggy nard fucked around with this message at 01:04 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:00
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Capital Strike - who was that guy with the cellphone watching an airport, again? Might want him moved to Luanda.
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May 8, 2017 01:05
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PenguinSalsa posted:Yooper: Could Mbeke's rangers even reach Luanda in the time that we have left? If not, how far up the coast could they get? Yup! Plenty of time. The Chinese are going to cross the Pacific and round the horn and then head to Angola. It's not the most direct route but it keeps their precious carriers out of range from shore based silkworm derivatives that some crazy separatists might fire. So we've got two missions.If our strikes are a resounding success then Mbekes boys (and girls) can strike hard enough to pressure Luanda itself. Or the SA-11's eat us alive.
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May 8, 2017 01:05
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Coastal CAS
sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 02:21 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:04
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Dance Officer posted:We need to hit the coast and drive up to and then siege Luanda. All the good stuff is along the coast, centered around Luanda. We need to have the coast for an attack route on Luanda, anyway. Yeah this is the only concept of operations that makes sense to me. We need to have a fait accompli before the Chinese arrive. Also we probably need to leave before the Chinese arrive. Ask Nambia how much money they want to let us exit our assets via their border
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May 8, 2017 01:09
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I know I'm normally the voice of caution and reason here, but All in. Capital Strike. We probably won't make meaningful ground gains without having to act incredibly slowly around the SA-11s, meaning the Chinese get here before we can win, so we should get the negotiation advantage of threatening the dictator himself. The Free State is a nonentity and aside from the Kfirs defecting we haven't even interacted with each other - and even then they didn't do poo poo about it. Let them keep pressuring the dictator from their side. e: wait, hang on Yooper posted:Yup! Plenty of time. The Chinese are going to cross the Pacific and round the horn and then head to Angola. It's not the most direct route but it keeps their precious carriers out of range from shore based silkworm derivatives that some crazy separatists might fire. Cross the pacific? Are they returning from menacing Mexico or are they just trying to not get too close to India? power crystals fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:12
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The ground forces are stretched to their limits--we need a decisive victory and soon--Capital Strike is the only option.
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May 8, 2017 01:16
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yeah this is the only concept of operations that makes sense to me. We need to have a fait accompli before the Chinese arrive. Also we probably need to leave before the Chinese arrive. Extraction isn't an issue. We can depart when the Chinese arrives without threat of attack. They are there to preserve the peace, not to make the peace.
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May 8, 2017 01:22
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Well, let's not get too close just in case a missile or two accidentally falls off the rail, but yeah I'm not TOO worried about the Chinese letting us go.
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May 8, 2017 01:22
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Without some kind of recon/intel how are we going to know what to hit in the city to be effective? Just blowing up buildings is fun warcrimes but not a game-ender. Plus we'd need to send a shitload of strikes to roll back the capital air defenses just to have a chance to hit our targets, whatever they may be, and that'll mean charging straight at SA-11s and Tunguskas. Can we do that and not die in droves?
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May 8, 2017 01:25
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Neophyte posted:Without some kind of recon/intel how are we going to know what to hit in the city to be effective? Just blowing up buildings is fun warcrimes but not a game-ender. Tunguskas are not a significant surface-to-air threat against anything except the Hawk/SK60s and maybe the Frogfoot. Their range isn't very good. They're much better at stopping incoming projectiles. The Buks are a much larger problem, but we could probably just saturate them with SDBs. At least until we run out of SDBs.
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May 8, 2017 01:29
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power crystals posted:
The southern part of China is held by numerous hostile warlords not to mention Taiwan, so they are willing to take the vlong way around to avoid having their big swinging dicks getting holed. All that along with India as you mentioned, it's just safer going the long way.
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May 8, 2017 01:41
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Ok, some thoughts. Ask yourself this: what do we want Angola to look like after this war? Personally, I want Von Hoff to have natural resources and be able to process and export those resources. He needs the money to rebuild the country (and pay us). To get this, means we have to take the capital and we have to do it NOW. Going after the Free State is a non-starter, then. So is a Capital Strike. We can only fire eight cruise missiles at a time. None of them are much good against bunkers. We have no idea where the Dictator is. And even if we did, there's not certainty we could even reach him. Blowing up a few government ministries and ammo dumps will hurt him, no doubt. But it won't bring down the country. Coastal CAS is the only option we know will actually end this war. Sending in ground troops to create facts on the ground is how Von Hoff will succeed at the negotiating table. Sending Casspirs rolling down the street of the capital will prove to Delvanios that he's finished. TV images of Mbeke Rangers being greeted as liberators will leave an impression in the minds of the world. We know this will be dangerous. Those SA-11s are no joke. But we know how to win this mission. 1. Use the Prowler to jam radars in the area of front we're attacking. 2. Sent up the Sperwer and Reaper w/Gorgon Stare to search for SA-11s and Tunguskas. 3. Send in the Gripens with SDBs to take our the SA-11s. With fewer air assets operating, we can send all our Gripens on SDB-dropping duty. 64 SDBs! we can drop from 60 nm away! 4. Send in the Paveways and JDAMs to kill the Tunguskas and Strelas. 5. Bomb the ever-loving poo poo out of the Dictator's ground troops with everything we have left. Also show Von Hoff the note and let him know we'd appreciate some gratitude for having passed up on such a good deal. Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 01:57 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:48
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Legitimacy comes from holding the Capital. Roll up the 1) coast, 2) take the capital. Can we buy anything that would help us out before this mission? Loel fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 02:03
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I think you're under selling a capital strike. With the world already inervening we can hit the ports, the fuel reserves, the federal reserve. We can leave the dictator with absolutely zero usable resources. I'm even more concerned about the future of Luanda - specifically, I want the Free State to have zero role. If we let them hang on they could be another Liberia, leaving a history of corruption and strife for decades.
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May 8, 2017 02:03
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This might be taken as a double vote but just in case, since I suggested it before the choices were laid out, I'm voting Coastal CAS. As has been pointed out we don't have enough detailed knowledge of the Dictator's position to perform an effective capital strike, which means we're going to need our ground forces to finish the job. That being said if the Mbeke Rangers are heading west we're going to need some kind of Air Support for the east against a Free State that has been stymied by the SA-11s. Yooper will we have to focus on a single front or can we spread out a bit?
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May 8, 2017 02:15
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Added Space posted:I think you're under selling a capital strike. With the world already inervening we can hit the ports, the fuel reserves, the federal reserve. We can leave the dictator with absolutely zero usable resources. It'd leave Von Hoff with nearly no revenue, huge repair costs. And less money to pay us and less money to rebuild the country if he wins. Economic warfare is a long-term play. It takes time to starve someone out and we just don't have the time.
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May 8, 2017 02:15
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Definitely voting Coastal CAS. If nothing else the territories gained will let us do a capital strike after this with better intel and possibly a closer airfield. Going for the capital now is silly - low likelihood of success and we have to fly over air defenses that the coastal mission will degrade.
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May 8, 2017 02:17
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Coastal CAS is the only path to victory at this point.
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May 8, 2017 02:18
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Ugggh, that's a good point. Coastal CAS
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May 8, 2017 02:20
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OK, I'm sold. Coastal CAS
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May 8, 2017 02:26
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Costal CAS
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May 8, 2017 02:44
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Groggy nard posted:Not Empty Quoting. Just an escort carrier...? ... What else?
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May 8, 2017 02:48
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Edit: Vote Changed. David Corbett fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 02:51
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Coastal CAS We need this poo poo done fast, we can't afford to wait around anymore. The Rangers need to be at the gates of the capitol yesterday.
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May 8, 2017 02:51
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RA Rx posted:Just an escort carrier...? 2 Escort Carriers Judging by appearances, these are Liaoning-Class carriers, each can carry anywhere from 24-40 fighter airplanes depending on how many helos they want to op out of carrying. Even if they go with the minimum, that's still a force of 48 J-15's (the Chinese native build of the SU-33). If they go the max and forgo helicopters that's 80 J-15s. Each can carry 2 PL-12,s which have a range of 50 miles and are pretty comparable to our Meteor missiles. Also this isn't counting the fleet component to guard the carriers too, expect modern frigates and destroyers, thinks Chinese Arleigh Burkes with the appropriate AA battery. In short, we do NOT want to face this force
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May 8, 2017 03:02
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Okay, let's hold up for a second here. We have two missions to make this happen, the coastal area is heavily defended, and by controlling the highway we provide another means for export. I say we Hit Reddit. Here's why: 1. Our ground forces are being run ragged, and they could likely use a reprieve before a final offensive. 2. The Free State is fighting two fronts and winning neither. With an aggressive push we could make significant gains, potentially eliminating an entire faction from the negotiation table. 3. The highway gives our ground forces a high level of mobility, enabling us to potentially bypass the coastal defenses and push for a final attack from a completely different front. I believe that there's an opportunity here to turn the Angolan forces against their leader. If we slightly alter the note provided with the bribe so that it sounds like Delvanios was offering us $200 million to get him out then it his own forces might just do our job for us. Especially if we start broadcasting the propaganda left and right along with proof of how we welcome refugees and deserters. Hell we might even get a few more jets. So my vote is to attack the Free State, use the highway as a back door, and inspire the Angolan forces to turn on the Dictator.
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May 8, 2017 03:16
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Jimmy4400nav posted:2 Escort Carriers Basically the arrival of China ends our involvement in this conflict. The lack of ground attack abilities means there still might be combat, but without air support things will bog down fairly quickly. That's why we want to be contesting Luanda (and ideally winning) when the Chinese show up.
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May 8, 2017 03:19
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Jimmy4400nav posted:2 Escort Carriers Thanks! RA Rx fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 03:19
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Capital Striiiiike to the tune of Chicken Attack.
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May 8, 2017 03:33
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sebmojo posted:the tune of Chicken Attack. What in god's name is this
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May 8, 2017 03:42
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We need to take out the capital and end the fight for good.
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May 8, 2017 03:57
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Here's a question I don't think I've seen anyone ask: do the pilots that defected with the Kfirs know anything about the Free State's upcoming plans? It's probably a long shot, but if they do, that'd be really convenient. Along the same lines, Yooper, can we get the OP updated with the link to the exact model of Kfir we own now?
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May 8, 2017 04:04
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