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You know, more and more often the flat color faces where their features are just shifting around the cookie-cutter pointy-ended oval are throwing me off. It feels like everything else has more depth to it nowadays, and the Boring World faces are lagging behind.
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May 8, 2017 08:16
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:You know, more and more often the flat color faces where their features are just shifting around the cookie-cutter pointy-ended oval are throwing me off. It feels like everything else has more depth to it nowadays, and the Boring World faces are lagging behind. It would be a huge amount of additional work to add more facial details.
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May 8, 2017 11:41
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They are both right. Annie was a bitch for leveraging the one real desire fairies have, to coerce Ayilu into helping out. Like, objectively that's a very bad thing to do. But everyone else knew the risks and wanted to take them, so she shouldn't take blame for anyone besides Ayilu's choice
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May 9, 2017 18:34
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Nice try except it wasn't coercion. You could argue that it was manipulative to take advantage of an unbalanced situation, but she wasn't threatened or forced, which is what coercion is.
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May 9, 2017 19:37
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Dr Subterfuge posted:Nice try except it wasn't coercion. You could argue that it was manipulative to take advantage of an unbalanced situation, but she wasn't threatened or forced, which is what coercion is. Yeah, I'm quite sure they informed her that they'd be facing a murderghost. Not all like "come along to this fun camping trip and get a name! no murderghosts at all!"
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May 9, 2017 20:52
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Annie could even tell Ayilu that she'd met the murderghost before. She, Annie and the murderghost all met the same night, even.
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May 9, 2017 21:06
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maswastaken posted:Annie could even tell Ayilu that she'd met the murderghost before. She, Annie and the murderghost all met the same night, even. Correct me if I'm wrong (because it has been a long time since I read the part in question) but it was vaguely implied that it was the murder ghost that actually killed them back when they were suicide fairies.
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May 9, 2017 21:13
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Sam Sanskrit posted:Correct me if I'm wrong (because it has been a long time since I read the part in question) but it was vaguely implied that it was the murder ghost that actually killed them back when they were suicide fairies. I'll correct you, it was Ysengrin that ate them.
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May 9, 2017 21:17
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Drunk Theory posted:I'll correct you, it was Ysengrin that ate them. Love that guy!
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May 9, 2017 21:30
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Regy Rusty posted:Love that guy! He's really great, good ol Ysengrin so helpful. Page in question btw. http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=320
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May 9, 2017 21:57
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Is it just me or does this not feel... satisfying to anyone else? Like, 1. protagonist gets verbally reamed by character she considered a friend for 5 pages. Annie Did Everything Wrong. 2. We go to a bunch of largely-unrelated pages showing no real introspection to address what just happened aside from 'hmm my future' and an awkward silence. 3. We finally do touch on it and protagonist gets completely comforted by a friend for 5 pages. Annie Did Nothing Wrong. The only thing where Kat goes 'idk maybe that's on you' is 'yeah maybe you were obsessed I dunno but anyway' and 'i guess i'd be angry too', but she doesn't address that it was hosed up to use something relatively trivial to humans (fairy names) as collateral for putting themselves in serious mortal danger, which is one of the only points of contention when Smitty/Parley/etc were all consenting and knew more or less what they were getting into. Like, 'you get yelled at, then go to a friend who comforts you and says you did nothing wrong' is how it would go IRL, yes, but in a comic, it just doesn't really feel like anything was resolved and pages of 'you hosed up!' 'no wait, you didn't!' aren't that satisfying to read. It feels more like the Red chapter was temporary drama that wasn't actually necessary to read, because Annie then gets absolved by Kat going 'no it's ok!' to every self-doubt. Did she actually learn anything? It makes it feel more like the narration is tying up loose ends, addressing potential reader questions about the morality of the situation then saying 'ACTUALLY, annie was perfectly justified to do this.' And IMO, having a chapter directly after a high-stakes, stressful, but ultimately heroic climax built up for years where a character undermines it and says "all of that was lovely and selfish, you douche" was not the most satisfying or elegant thing to begin with? I dunno. I guess it depends on what happens next with Annie's actions. But as it is now, I'm just feeling kind of out of touch with the way things are going and like I have whiplash. 
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May 10, 2017 18:28
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:Is it just me or does this not feel... satisfying to anyone else? That's kind of Tom's style though. He likes to set up overwhelming evidence for one particular interpretation, then suddenly flip things and throw us evidence for the contrary. Like he's done with Antimony before this, Ysengrim, Coyote, Egledude, etc. I think if it weren't for the time between updates and the extra time to stew on one side of it vs the other it would feel a bit better. I think pacing wise it'll feel much better on a re-read. But I think the thing that you are getting confused about, is the talks with Red or Kat is not the resolution to the whole Jeanne thing. We don't even know what's going to happen with A) the river guardian suddenly being gone, B) The court/coyote's plots and how this affects them, C) What exactly the psychopomps extorted from Annie and how that is going to affect her and her relationships. Not even counting stuff like what messed up lessons robot is going to take from this with that cult he's got going on, or whether the court finds out anyways and takes retribution on either annie or her friends directly. Like the fallout from this whole thing isn't even close to settled yet. I think it's very safe to say that Annie feeling bad or good about her actions involving Jeanne is not the climax of the entire comic. Besides, I'm pretty sure Annie is still going to be a wreck about this emotionally despite what Kat says. Kind words from friends don't fix deep seated emotional problems I'm afraid to say. Even if your friend is some kind of all powerful mecha-bird god.
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May 10, 2017 18:46
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Irukandji Syndrome posted:I dunno. I guess it depends on what happens next with Annie's actions. But as it is now, I'm just feeling kind of out of touch with the way things are going and like I have whiplash. If he plays this chapter straight it will not be good but it seems unlikely he will do that.
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May 10, 2017 19:01
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There's also that Kat's not really one to be in tune with how the forest/its creatures work
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May 11, 2017 08:12
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Wrongness is relative. Red was completely justified in telling Annie to stay away from her and her girlfriend because she endangered their lives. Kat is justified in comforting her friend and right that ending Jeanne and elf guys suffering was a compassionate goal. It's a complicated situation. We still don't know what it's going to effect in the long run.
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May 11, 2017 08:21
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Wrongness is relative. Red probably is very shocked about the immediate danger to her friend, many of her arguments don't make sense. Yes Annie did want blue's help for something she could have given for free,was worthless. Does that mean that the situation was better if Annie offered something of substantial value? Like "oh poo poo, help me heal the murder ghost and i'll give you my kidneys?" The real problem Annie did was that she was reckless. If anyone would have died in the mission, no one would be happy. If not everyone is on the same page about this, that's gonna cause some issues. I mean, what's the obsession with Jeanne anyhow? Why not let her wait a couple of years until you have a foolproof plan, she isn't going anywhere. But Annie felt that it was time, and overestimated her resources, and her carelessness almost killed a couple of people. Which is bad. But the aim of the mission was to save a tortured soul stuck to the bottom of a river for 200 years. Which is good. I don't think this is a issue of manipulation which is what Red is going for. I dunno, did she misrepresent the danger of the mission? Did she lie? Or were there a bunch of kids with an overconfident leader who had an obsessive compulsion to solve a problem.
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May 11, 2017 14:07
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Red is a dumb fairy who tried to cut off her own fingers for giggles.
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May 11, 2017 16:56
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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White Rock posted:I don't think this is a issue of manipulation which is what Red is going for. I dunno, did she misrepresent the danger of the mission? Did she lie? Or were there a bunch of kids with an overconfident leader who had an obsessive compulsion to solve a problem. This is exactly it, and why I never understood why people latched onto the argument as hard as they did. It's not that Annie did nothing wrong, it's the degree to which Red's argument blames Annie that gets me. You can have good people that do bad things by accident, but in order for the argument to work here Annie would have to be unsympathetic to her friends, unwilling to consider the consequences of her actions, and unwilling to consider the burden her requests put on her friends. I don't know how someone can be a fan of this comic, read all of it several times like most of us have here, and look at Annie and say "yes, that lines up with the character whose life I've been following for years now". It requires a fervor of dislike for Annie strong enough that I wonder how it never came up before. Like yeah, she didn't handle the situation perfectly and was incredibly, stupidly reckless, but not to the extent that should inspire these multi paragraph essays on why it's her fault for leading people down there as though Kat, Parley, and Smitty also didn't want to do it. Most of all, we're talking about a fairy's views of ethics here. The same fairies that use to be animals galavanting in the forest for however long. The same fairies that desperately wanted someone to murder the poo poo out of them so they could come over. The same fairies that clearly don't quite understand how human society/emotion works, capable of detaching their minds from their bodies to play around while their body somehow keeps functioning and taking notes in class. This is the character that's changed people's minds about the main character?
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May 11, 2017 17:31
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Also, Parley is the one who said "it's time". Painting Annie as some monster manipulating her friends completely ignores the part where she shared the inciting vision with Parley in the first place. It wasn't Annie's "obsession" that made this whole thing happen alone. They all decided to do it together. Red wanted to come along and only got angry in retrospect because she didn't consider how dangerous it would be.
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May 11, 2017 18:05
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Begemot posted:Also, Parley is the one who said "it's time". Painting Annie as some monster manipulating her friends completely ignores the part where she shared the inciting vision with Parley in the first place. Annie actually says it's time, but Parley and Smitty clearly agree with her, because they ask if it's time. http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1694
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May 11, 2017 18:22
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Begemot posted:Also, Parley is the one who said "it's time". Painting Annie as some monster manipulating her friends completely ignores the part where she shared the inciting vision with Parley in the first place. Yeah, even while they were doing the mission, Red was messing around having fun finding ridiculous costumes for blue to re-create. She clearly wasn't taking any of this seriously. I bet they were warned too, but they just didn't care. Though to be fair, Annie should be acquainted with forest creatures enough by now to know this was likely. So I think there is some sympathy there for them endangering Ayilu and Red being mad about that. That said, I'm still puzzled by how so many people just want to pin all of this 100% on Annie when there is clearly a lot more to this that's been brought up. Let alone the irresponsibility of the psychopomps for putting Annie on this path when she is so young and inexperienced to begin with. Like they knew the danger Jeanne presents more than anyone considering they've lost some of their number to her. But they gave no fucks. If Annie got chopped up they wouldn't have shed a tear, and even after she accomplishes this impossible task for them, they still want more from her.
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May 11, 2017 22:24
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Begemot posted:Also, Parley is the one who said "it's time". Painting Annie as some monster manipulating her friends completely ignores the part where she shared the inciting vision with Parley in the first place. Yeah Coward Heart ended with Parley & Smitty both agreeing to help almost instantly after being told what was up. Annie may have gotten overeager/obsessed once The Plan went into motion (which: fair to bring up & discuss) and the entire Aiylu thing definitely didn't have her think things through (again: fair), but like half of the crew was for 100% it. Wouldn't be too surprised if Parley was going through similar thoughts as Annie at this point. Maybe more so since Smits took a knife to the chest for her and all. Maybe that will be next chapter with an intermission from "dying is Good, Actually" robot
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May 12, 2017 00:20
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JuniperCake posted:That said, I'm still puzzled by how so many people just want to pin all of this 100% on Annie when there is clearly a lot more to this that's been brought up. Let alone the irresponsibility of the psychopomps for putting Annie on this path when she is so young and inexperienced to begin with. Like they knew the danger Jeanne presents more than anyone considering they've lost some of their number to her. But they gave no fucks. If Annie got chopped up they wouldn't have shed a tear, and even after she accomplishes this impossible task for them, they still want more from her. Anyone who is any kind of parent figure to Annie is a real piece of poo poo. Pretty firm rule.
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May 12, 2017 00:22
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Wittgen posted:Anyone who is any kind of parent figure to Annie is a real piece of poo poo. Pretty firm rule. The Donlans are pretty good overall.
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May 12, 2017 00:34
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Zore posted:The Donlans are pretty good overall. Ah, but they are firmly uncle/aunt figures, thus allowed to be wonderful and supportive but just not around enough.
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May 12, 2017 00:50
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Zore posted:The Donlans are pretty good overall. Give them time.
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May 12, 2017 05:00
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The real villains of Gunnerkrigg Court are the psychopomps.
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May 12, 2017 08:36
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Annie you're a bit close to the camera.
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May 12, 2017 12:10
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There's a loophole to the deal. The psychopomps want her to deliver dead people into the ether. So all she needs to do is remove some part of the equation. Either she kills all psychopomps, or she depopulates earth, or she destroys the ether, or she stops the concept of death itself. All of those seem more interesting than a exploitative contract.
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May 12, 2017 22:10
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cant cook creole bream posted:There's a loophole to the deal. The psychopomps want her to deliver dead people into the ether. "Hey, Eglamore. Wanna have kids?" ... "Hey, Anthony. Wanna have kids?"
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May 12, 2017 23:55
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Bell_ posted:That's not the loophole Surma found. Yeah, I forgot the her in that sentence. But prolonged suicide is kind of a downer. And technically she could attack the want as well, by just convincing them to leave her alone. There are so many different outs.
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May 13, 2017 21:56
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What happens if a fire elemental gets pregnant, and then dies in childbirth? Do you just get a super strong baby?
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May 14, 2017 03:17
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Scholtz posted:What happens if a fire elemental gets pregnant, and then dies in childbirth? Do you just get a super strong baby? I know exactly how to answer this.
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May 14, 2017 07:34
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Scholtz posted:What happens if a fire elemental gets pregnant, and then dies in childbirth? Do you just get a super strong baby? Something something instain mother.
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May 14, 2017 14:47
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JuniperCake posted:Yeah, even while they were doing the mission, Red was messing around having fun finding ridiculous costumes for blue to re-create. She clearly wasn't taking any of this seriously. I bet they were warned too, but they just didn't care. Though to be fair, Annie should be acquainted with forest creatures enough by now to know this was likely. So I think there is some sympathy there for them endangering Ayilu and Red being mad about that.
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May 14, 2017 20:49
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How dare Harry Potter put everyone's life at risk fighting the magic nazis? Why didn't the famous five call the police instead of investigating the smugglers?
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May 14, 2017 23:31
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Strategic Tea posted:How dare Harry Potter put everyone's life at risk fighting the magic nazis? Why didn't the famous five call the police instead of investigating the smugglers? Vigilantism is worse then the crime!
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May 14, 2017 23:45
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Strategic Tea posted:How dare Harry Potter put everyone's life at risk fighting the magic nazis? Why didn't the famous five call the police instead of investigating the smugglers? I don't think anyone's saying that they shouldn't have done it. I think plenty of people are saying 'why did it have to be now, instead of in a few years, when Annie has mastered her fire elemental stuff, Parley and Smitty are stronger, and Kat has figured out everything for sure, instead of maybe'. The answer to that is obvious: if they waited a couple of years, Ayilu would have gotten a name, and wouldn't be willing to join them. Their entire plan hinged on using Ayilu's powers, and if she wasn't willing to be bought into it via a name, then their whole plan would have fallen apart.
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May 15, 2017 02:29
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KittyEmpress posted:I don't think anyone's saying that they shouldn't have done it. The answer is actually that it would've been boring.
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May 15, 2017 02:31
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KittyEmpress posted:Their entire plan hinged on using Ayilu's powers, and if she wasn't willing to be bought into it via a name, then their whole plan would have fallen apart. This entire argument exists solely on the hypothetical situation that Aiylu was bribed into helping, or couldn't possibly turn down getting her own name. If all she had to do in order to get her name legitimately was stay in school for a few more years and she made the choice to go along with their plan in order to skip out and bypass that process, she is no longer innocent or some sweet babboo that ~got coerced~ into helping. Either fairies are too ignorant to know better, or they're capable of knowingly doing something that goes against the system so they can get their reward faster. You don't get to have it both ways. Wrist Watch fucked around with this message at 07:25 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 03:53
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