|
Volkerball posted:That's because college kids come in with the bare minimum of knowledge and have only demonstrated an ability to "learn." Eat, digest, pass, poo poo it out, and move on to the next subject. There's no retention. I'm miles ahead of the kids I see graduating here because a lot of the technical classes that involve things that you would need to know on a daily basis in the industry, are fairly easy classes. So they do the bare minimum there, and walk out with a B and no knowledge. Experience trumps that every day of the week. And I already have a decade of experience in my field, and will be remaining in it for the rest of my life with or without a degree. So generalized education really grinds my gears. I might have to look into a different school that fits my needs better, because working full time and then coming home to do a book report is just not going to be worth my time. I'm not optimistic I'll find something though. You're kind of mixing up two kinds of value here, I think. 1) There's the practical value of what you learn in the classes you have to take to get the degree. This will vary from "somewhat" to "lolwut" no matter what degree/career combination you're looking at. That's just life. 2) Then there's the value that possessing the degree has in terms of job opportunities, prestige/respect within your chosen profession, making more money, whatever. If 2) is important to you accomplishing your life goals, then put up with the dumb poo poo and just do what is necessary to get the degree. Life is full of dumb unfair poo poo, just suck it up in the short term for the long-term benefit. On the other hand, it's 100% possible that the payoff you get from 2) is NOT WORTH IT AT ALL. Depending on what you do in life, having that degree might not have much dollar value or whatever. In which case just quit and do something else instead of pissing yourself off for the sake of doing it. Volkerball posted:Any not awful pats fan, might want to make your presence known now. I gave it my best shot.  
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
a patagonian cavy posted:better than having chemistry with a minor, which is what they do, at penn state 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:46
|
|
|
Mel and Volk started an argument and each articulated their points, ending with mutual respect. We could all learn a thing from Mel and Volk. Heil Paterno.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
I can appreciate the desire for breadth of knowledge when getting a degree, but if I'm designing a building I don't need to take two loving different literature classes and a history class. gently caress those classes. Also the chemistry class I had to take freshman year was used to weed out people so it was stupid difficult and I barely scraped by with a C.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
If college in America was free, taxpayer money would have to fund it 100%. And that means occasionally allowing the Republican party to control the budget - and thus, both the total supply and the educational priorities - of higher education. This with the Republicans knowing perfectly well that college-educated Americans skew Democrat. welp
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:54
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:If college in America was free, taxpayer money would have to fund it 100%. And that means occasionally allowing the Republican party to control the budget - and thus, both the total supply and the educational priorities - of higher education. This with the Republicans knowing perfectly well that college-educated Americans skew Democrat. okay but explain how that's worse than the current system
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:If college in America was free, taxpayer money would have to fund it 100%. And that means occasionally allowing the Republican party to control the budget - and thus, both the total supply and the educational priorities - of higher education. This with the Republicans knowing perfectly well that college-educated Americans skew Democrat. Or we could just get into another generation long scientific pissing contest with another global superpower that makes them pour money into university research
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
I'm 100% focused on the practical value. I dropped the degree program and put together my own curriculum with an associate's worth of credits specialized for me. By dumping all the irrelevant classes, I was able to add in principles of management and supervision, industrial psychology, supply chain and warehousing logistics, and a ton of other things relevant to running a machine shop. Kids coming out of college aren't going to have anywhere near the skillset I do. If a company would take one of them over me, I wouldn't want to work for them anyways, because that indicates to me a refusal to think outside the box and be innovative. Instead of making their own trail, they're following the same beaten path everyone else is. And in American manufacturing, that trail ends in a ditch with a bag on your head. That piece of paper isn't bringing in anything you don't already have. And if every company values a piece of paper that much, I'll use the skills I have to start up my own shop in my garage and show all them dumb mother fuckers.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:56
|
|
|
BitterAvatar posted:I can appreciate the desire for breadth of knowledge when getting a degree, but if I'm designing a building I don't need to take two loving different literature classes and a history class. gently caress those classes. The key here is that college isn't just to help you design a building. It's also for example supposed to make you a better citizen and voter. Narrowly-focused (and generally poor) education is part of why a huge percentage of Americans consider both evolution and global climate change to be hoaxes.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
BitterAvatar posted:Also the chemistry class I had to take freshman year was used to weed out people so it was stupid difficult and I barely scraped by with a C. 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:57
|
|
|
And when I do I'm gonna get a chip tattoo on my shoulder
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:58
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:And when I do I'm gonna get a chip tattoo on my shoulder 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 20:59
|
|
|
Eli Wiggum posted:In my freshman year about a third of the class transferred to another school after the first semester because they couldn't take the heat Yeppppp. A few people in my dorms did that exact thing. One of them specifically because of their 6% grade on the chem final.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:00
|
|
|
JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:okay but explain how that's worse than the current system A system in which we have both an anti-science, anti-fact Republican party as one of the two major parties, and we have 100% funded public education, is fundamentally a contradiction. It's a fantasy. That is different from the current system, because the current system is real and what we are actually stuck with. It's tough to compare an impossible scenario with the current one and declare one or the other "worse." Mel Mudkiper posted:Or we could just get into another generation long scientific pissing contest with another global superpower that makes them pour money into university research These days the focus seems to be STEM, which is again a very practical focus on creating tomorrow's engineers and science workers. Probably would be exactly what a new technology race would want, but still not exactly the education that produces good citizens (although at least students are scientifically literate enough to understand that evolution and climate sciences are real). My subjective perception is that STEM graduates skew disproportionately towards libertarianism. We need to recover in this country some sense of the value of a liberal arts education, which also probably requires us to not burden liberal arts degree students with student debt they have no hope of paying. I don't know how we get there from here, though.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Narrowly-focused (and generally poor) education is part of why a huge percentage of Americans consider both evolution and global climate change to be hoaxes. Literature did not teach me about evolution or climate change so I don't give a shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Also look at how many people on SA probably have degrees and are still giant morons.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
you're all dumb
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
mel, volkerball, and leperflesh posting at each other for eternity
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
gently caress lower case posters. Lower case posters suck.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:04
|
|
|
BitterAvatar posted:Literature did not teach me about evolution or climate change so I don't give a shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Literature classes when done well offer a meaningful perspective into the cultural narratives that define our understanding of the world we inhabit biiiiittttccchjj
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Look at me, studiously undoing the autocorrect on my phone when it tries to capitalize after a period, so I appear casual and chill.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:gently caress lower case posters. Lower case posters suck. I've discovered that caring about things is more intellectually and spiritually rewarding than ironic indifference
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:Look at me, studiously undoing the autocorrect on my phone when it tries to capitalize after a period, so I appear casual and chill. lol
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:I'm 100% focused on the practical value. I dropped the degree program and put together my own curriculum with an associate's worth of credits specialized for me. By dumping all the irrelevant classes, I was able to add in principles of management and supervision, industrial psychology, supply chain and warehousing logistics, and a ton of other things relevant to running a machine shop. Kids coming out of college aren't going to have anywhere near the skillset I do. If a company would take one of them over me, I wouldn't want to work for them anyways, because that indicates to me a refusal to think outside the box and be innovative. Instead of making their own trail, they're following the same beaten path everyone else is. And in American manufacturing, that trail ends in a ditch with a bag on your head. That piece of paper isn't bringing in anything you don't already have. And if every company values a piece of paper that much, I'll use the skills I have to start up my own shop in my garage and show all them dumb mother fuckers. This is a common mindset and it overlooks an important practical problem: your resume will probably have to get past a screening process before a hiring manager ever sees it and decides if it's good enough to merit an interview. So, depending on the kind of job we're talking about, there is an excellent chance that some HR dope or whatever will throw your resume away for not having an "expected" degree on it before it ever reaches a hiring manger. The guy who wants to hire the position you're trying to get might be cool with people without degrees, but if they never see your resume in the first place it's irrelevant. That's a huge part of the value of possessing a degree: getting past the moron gatekeepers so you can get a real chance at talking your way into the job. (This obviously varies a lot depending on the kind of job/industry/etc.)
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7QZgH1eP2o
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:gently caress lower case posters. Lower case posters suck. i go both ways Don't be bigoted about lower-case posters, man. It's not just a "lifestyle choice." Some folks are just born that way.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:10
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:A system in which we have both an anti-science, anti-fact Republican party as one of the two major parties, and we have 100% funded public education, is fundamentally a contradiction. It's a fantasy. That is different from the current system, because the current system is real and what we are actually stuck with. It's tough to compare an impossible scenario with the current one and declare one or the other "worse." You state that option A is worse than option B. I ask for your reasons. Instead of comparing the options, you state that one option is impossible and therefore it's difficult to compare. What? Also, public universities already get the majority (or equal) of their funding from federal sources. Make Pell and other federal grants completely forgiven upon proof of graduation, tax the rich to pay for it.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Literature classes when done well offer a meaningful perspective into the cultural narratives that define our understanding of the world we inhabit biiiiittttccchjj So nothing you've ever taught?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:Look at me, studiously undoing the autocorrect on my phone when it tries to capitalize after a period, so I appear casual and chill. Same. wait, i mean, same
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
BitterAvatar posted:So nothing you've ever taught? Or been taught, apparently. 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:This is a common mindset and it overlooks an important practical problem: your resume will probably have to get past a screening process before a hiring manager ever sees it and decides if it's good enough to merit an interview. So, depending on the kind of job we're talking about, there is an excellent chance that some HR dope or whatever will throw your resume away for not having an "expected" degree on it before it ever reaches a hiring manger. The guy who wants to hire the position you're trying to get might be cool with people without degrees, but if they never see your resume in the first place it's irrelevant. It's pretty likely I could get hired for low level management in this field without any college at all. I'm almost there at my current job. I lucked into an entry level with training position years ago, so my resume is already gonna get read.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
i get mad at letters in posts
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:12
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:It's pretty likely I could get hired for low level management in this field without any college at all. I'm almost there at my current job. I lucked into an entry level with training position years ago, so my resume is already gonna get read. In that case just do whatever and  I guess.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
the goddamn d&d chat thread is less petty and overly detail-oriented than this dwell on that
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:You state that option A is worse than option B. I ask for your reasons. Instead of comparing the options, you state that one option is impossible and therefore it's difficult to compare. College students attending universities in the US - including those which receive public funding - are still on the hook for tuition fees. We do not have anything close to free education here. And we never will, as long as Republicans have power and are aware that people with degrees vote Democrat. I pointed out that free school was fundamentally incompatible with having republicans in power. So having free school while also having republicans in power isn't possible. You asked how that would be worse than the current situation, but that question makes no sense: how can an impossibility be "better" or "worse than a reality?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
BitterAvatar posted:So nothing you've ever taught? You are correct, I do not teach literature classes
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
Probably Magic posted:the goddamn d&d chat thread is less petty and overly detail-oriented than this But... dwelling on dumb poo poo is the problem itself?!? 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:gently caress lower case posters. Lower case posters suck. Volkerball posted:Look at me, studiously undoing the autocorrect on my phone when it tries to capitalize after a period, so I appear casual and chill. Mel Mudkiper posted:I've discovered that caring about things is more intellectually and spiritually rewarding than ironic indifference Leperflesh posted:i go both ways 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:14
|
|
|
Probably Magic posted:the goddamn d&d chat thread is less petty and overly detail-oriented than this Who is being petty?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:15
|
|
|
Volkerball posted:THIS IS IMPORTANT SA2K Man I haven't been called THAT in a while
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:Who is being petty? Well, we did ban a guy over a picture of a burrito
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 21:17
|
|