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Victorkm posted:Guess I should come out from under my rock with all the litrpg I read on Kindle Unlimited. This "genre" sounds abysmal.
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May 8, 2017 16:32
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I just read a litRPG fight scene that was a series of statistical information
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May 8, 2017 16:34
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Hobnob posted:TV tropes has authors? What? Some of those terms like "bottle episode" have been around in the TV or film industry for a long time and just might not be common knowledge to viewers--and that's fine if they were just trying to be informative. But then much like you said, the anime took over, and the creeplords didn't like people suggesting that their moe waifus might be really sexist and shameful and so they aimed to ban all 'discussion', you're just allowed to check off the boxes of the 'tropes' and pretend you are smart for recognizing how cliche-riddled most anime is.
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May 8, 2017 16:38
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Victorkm posted:Guess I should come out from under my rock with all the litrpg I read on Kindle Unlimited. What's wrong with your brain?
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May 8, 2017 16:55
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occamsnailfile posted:Some of those terms like "bottle episode" have been around in the TV or film industry for a long time and just might not be common knowledge to viewers--and that's fine if they were just trying to be informative. But then much like you said, the anime took over, and the creeplords didn't like people suggesting that their moe waifus might be really sexist and shameful and so they aimed to ban all 'discussion', you're just allowed to check off the boxes of the 'tropes' and pretend you are smart for recognizing how cliche-riddled most anime is. It's now moved beyond that point, to where tropes aren't even useful for discussing the works that contain them anymore. Take "Not Using the 'Z' Word" - loads of zombie shows and movies make a point about not using the word "zombie". There's an interesting discussion to be had there about the assumptions of the genre, and whether it's better or worse to try and avoid coming off as cliched. The trope page, has gently caress all to do with that. And the examples are so incoherent it dilutes any understanding of what the trope *is*: -All mechs in Elysium are called droids, not robots. -The protagonists in Primer never refer to their time machine as a time machine, nor do they use the words time travel to describe their time travel. - Not discussed, but the entire series of The Matrix has humans refer to the Machines, probably for similar reasons - The Gelth from "The Unquiet Dead" aren't called ghosts in that story, which is fair enough since they aren't actually ghosts, just gas creatures - Cylons in Battlestar Galactica are called any number of names, from "Toaster" to "Skin Job", but never robots, except in "Pegasus", in which some of Pegasus's crew members call a Cylon just that. In the miniseries, Baltar says disparagingly to Number Six "You're a Cylon. A robot." Yes, somebody felt the need to point out that things that are not ghosts are not called ghosts. And that cylons are only sometimes called robots. What point are they even trying to make? It's one thing if it were just a bunch of compulsive categorisations of tropes in media, but their categories don't even make any bloody sense.
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May 8, 2017 16:56
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Rough Lobster posted:This "genre" sounds abysmal. ShutteredIn posted:What's wrong with your brain? I am not gonna be a dick to a guy for liking a genre, but I will admit I find the entire genre incomprehensible aesthetically and materially
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May 8, 2017 17:06
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I on the other hand am going to be a dick, and say that anyone who enjoys LitRPGs is a worse person for doing so.
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May 8, 2017 17:09
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Hobnob posted:TV tropes has authors? What? It has a forum including a section for writers, much like our own Creative Convention. The general quality of output is what you would expect.
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May 8, 2017 17:15
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Meh the whole reason I am doing the tasting tour is because I spent most of my life seeing all genre fiction as trash not worthy of reading. I have realized I was isolating my experiences for the sake of pretention and decided to branch out and experiment a littke. It would be hypocritical of me to decide to open up to sci fi and fantasy and then find a new genre to trash. That being said, I am not gonna read any of the loving things.
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May 8, 2017 17:15
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Meh the whole reason I am doing the tasting tour is because I spent most of my life seeing all genre fiction as trash not worthy of reading. I have realized I was isolating my experiences for the sake of pretention and decided to branch out and experiment a littke. Have you done other similar "tasting tours?" I know you mentioned comics earlier, but are there others? Mysteries? Westerns? Supernatural Romance?
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May 8, 2017 17:31
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Ben Nevis posted:Have you done other similar "tasting tours?" I know you mentioned comics earlier, but are there others? Mysteries? Westerns? Supernatural Romance? Two years ago was comics, last year was anime, this year sci fi/fantasy, might do mystery/suspense next
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May 8, 2017 17:37
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I fail to see the difference between litRPG and making a journal of your RPG adventure. It basically sounds like I would run an entire adventure by myself as both the GM and the PCs and then write it down. In actual news, City of Miracles start out pretty good. Bennett is really good at pulling you into a story, while he is not that good at keeping it going. Also, Fools Fate is out for those that like Hobb.
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May 8, 2017 17:53
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so I'm curious, does litRPG also contain novels or series where the protagonist suddenly is transported into a magical fantasy world, or specifically one which goes by RPG game rules? I recall reading some series a while back about a dude who was like a US soldier in the vietnam war who gets killed and suddenly wakes up as an elf in a fantasy world.. It was pretty dumb, and I think that at at least one point, he is running around as an elf with a machine gun. What do you even call that genre, like Thomas Convenant, Magic Kingdom for Sale: Sold, etc? Mel Mudkiper posted:I just read a litRPG fight scene that was a series of statistical information coyo7e fucked around with this message at 17:57 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 17:54
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coyo7e posted:so I'm curious, does litRPG also contain novels or series where the protagonist suddenly is transported into a magical fantasy world, or specifically one which goes by RPG game rules? I think the difference between that and litRPG is that litRPG has the protagonist not only sent to a new world, but also explicitly exists in a reality of codified action
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May 8, 2017 17:56
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Can we group write a litrpg? Maybe we'll even get it published! "The princess cast me a smouldering look from across the room. I knew I've have a chance to bone her but only if I got my Charisma score past 13 to meet her check. I downed my brandy and set off to find an attribute boosting piece of headwear..."
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May 8, 2017 18:14
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Victorkm posted:If there's anything I could recommend about this series its to read the author's novel "The Beginning: Dark Paladin vol 1" as it does a better job showing the way the author thinks and sees the world than nearly anything in the first 4.95 books of Way of the Shaman. Otherwise the reveal at the end of book 5 is very jarring. You can put it in spoilers if you like. I'm not being sarcastic.
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May 8, 2017 18:19
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coyo7e posted:so I'm curious, does litRPG also contain novels or series where the protagonist suddenly is transported into a magical fantasy world, or specifically one which goes by RPG game rules? Portal fantasy. The genre in modern times probably starts with A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, but it encompasses Narnia, Fionavar Tapestry, probably John Carter of Mars, etc etc.
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May 8, 2017 18:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Meh the whole reason I am doing the tasting tour is because I spent most of my life seeing all genre fiction as trash not worthy of reading. I have realized I was isolating my experiences for the sake of pretention and decided to branch out and experiment a littke. In this one instance, I'll allow it We have to have standards somewhere
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May 8, 2017 18:27
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Rough Lobster posted:Can we group write a litrpg? Maybe we'll even get it published! As I said before, I want to do one where a guy wishes he could live in an RPG and gets his wish But its FATAL
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May 8, 2017 18:30
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Mel Mudkiper posted:As I said before, I want to do one where a guy wishes he could live in an RPG and gets his wish Wouldn't that necessitate his limbs, face, dick and anal aperture rapidly warping to impossible proportions as soon as he materialised?
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May 8, 2017 18:33
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or, alternatively, a litRPG that is 1000 pages long but follows a mundane life of a village peasant as every aspect of his existence is determined by algebraic equations of dice rolls He drank a glass of water. He rolled an 18 for dexterity for gripping the glass against a base 12 modifier due to shape of the glass with a +2 modifier due to condensation outside the glass. He gained 2 xp. He swallowed the water, failed a saving roll with a 6 to prevent choking. Chokes on water, successful constitution check prevents further choking. 3xp. He levels up, and spends his skill points in beet farming.
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May 8, 2017 18:37
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Old Man and the Sea rewritten into GURPS
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May 8, 2017 18:40
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Nakar posted:I have a sneaking suspicion that "everything is a series" is a matter of market forces and publisher preference and perhaps a reaction by aspiring writers to match those requirements. The ability to generate a trilogy or longer series is of value to publishers, since if they're going to do a three book contract it's probably demonstrable through their marketing research that people are more likely to pick up book 2 of a series they already read book 1 of than a new, completely distinct and separate work by the same author even if they enjoyed that author's work. I wouldn't be completely shocked if a lot of genre fiction gets pitched as its own thing and somebody asks the author if they can tweak it to allow for the possibility of sequels or to adjust the narrative to create a series or something. I think there may also be something to the way a lot of Internet writing sites (fanfiction places, etc.) often tolerate interminable stories where one chapter follows another in a narrative that never really ends until the creator gets bored; it'd be easy to imagine aspiring writers internalizing this. I remember earlier discussions on this and market forces, and someone (General Battuta?) said genre fiction, like fantasy, doesnt sell as well as literary fiction, but those customers that buy and read fantasy buy a lot of it, so that's why everything must be an epic trilogy etc etc. Also this quote was linked here when this subject was brought up before, on Iain Banks and his book sales: http://io9.gizmodo.com/iain-m-banks-explains-he-wasnt-writing-science-fictio-509125322 quote:An ex-neighbour of ours recalled (in an otherwise entirely kind and welcome comment) me telling him, years ago, that my SF novels effectively subsidised the mainstream works. I think he’s just misremembered, as this has never been the case. Until the last few years or so, when the SF novels started to achieve something approaching parity in sales, the mainstream always out-sold the SF – on average, if my memory isn’t letting me down, by a ratio of about three or four to one. I think a lot of people have assumed that the SF was the trashy but high-selling stuff I had to churn out in order to keep a roof over my head while I wrote the important, serious, non-genre literary novels. Never been the case, and I can’t imagine that I’d have lied about this sort of thing, least of all as some sort of joke. The SF novels have always mattered deeply to me – the Culture series in particular – and while it might not be what people want to hear (academics especially), the mainstream subsidised the SF, not the other way round. And… rant over. The last fantasy novel I read was Jemesin's The Fifth Season, and while I enjoyed it overall the ending was disappointing and too much I felt was unresolved and haven't picked up the sequel because of that. Most of what I've read lately has been fairly stand-alone, even if they're part of a series, like one of the Craft sequence books, and one of the prequels to Lonesome Dove.
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May 8, 2017 18:42
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PlushCow posted:I remember earlier discussions on this and market forces, and someone (General Battuta?) said genre fiction, like fantasy, doesnt sell as well as literary fiction, but those customers that buy and read fantasy buy a lot of it, so that's why everything must be an epic trilogy etc etc. Interesting, I had always assumed it was the opposite
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May 8, 2017 18:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:or, alternatively, a litRPG that is 1000 pages long but follows a mundane life of a village peasant as every aspect of his existence is determined by algebraic equations of dice rolls Spoiler: he's murdered by his pet housecat, because the world runs on first-edition AD&D rules. Little fucker had a 1d4/1d4 claw attack. Peasant never stood a chance.
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May 8, 2017 18:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Old Man and the Sea rewritten into GURPS Page after page of failed fishing checks.
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May 8, 2017 18:51
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Troper Tales
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May 8, 2017 19:04
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uberkeyzer posted:Portal fantasy. The genre in modern times probably starts with A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, but it encompasses Narnia, Fionavar Tapestry, probably John Carter of Mars, etc etc. Donaldson also wrote another portal fantasy that I actually like better than Covenant for a hojillion reasons, The Mirror Of Her Dreams and the sequel. As far as I can tell nobody has ever realized it exists.
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May 8, 2017 19:07
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Darth Walrus posted:It has a forum including a section for writers, much like our own Creative Convention. The general quality of output is what you would expect. Ah, thanks. That sounds like something I'd rather miss.
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May 8, 2017 19:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:or, alternatively, a litRPG that is 1000 pages long but follows a mundane life of a village peasant as every aspect of his existence is determined by algebraic equations of dice rolls You forgot his roll vs cholera to avoid a 95% chance of squirty death from contaminated water.
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May 8, 2017 19:47
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Runcible Cat posted:You forgot his roll vs cholera to avoid a 95% chance of squirty death from contaminated water. Uh, no I didn't. Obviously his esophagus has to make a dexterity check post-swallowing to make sure the water reaches the stomach, and only then would it be necessary to roll Constitution for Cholera
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May 8, 2017 19:56
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Interesting, I had always assumed it was the opposite SF has always been extremely niche with perhaps some vocal and annoying fat nerdy fans. Going to any bookstore in my city, SF/Fantasy section is just as small as Mystery section for instance meanwhile general fiction/lit fic always massive and spans easily 3x as much. Sometimes its lucky if theres more than a tiny section of a backwall with more than LOTR, GoT and zombie-vampire romance books. I suppose one thing that is probably been helpful along with advent of Kindles/ereaders is the immense amount of tech workers and such here in the Bay taking company buses/train/or even sometime public transit to work and getting older looping back around to getting into reading sf/f again.
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May 8, 2017 20:22
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Xaris posted:Just curious, why did you assume it was the opposite? It makes perfect sense and the most surprising thing is he actually is claiming that there's almost parity now. Well, this subforum for one. Also in general I think I see media that tends to cater to white males, and sci fi fantasy has traditionally been a genre for white males. Also the YA explosion has always fit into those genres as well. Also, the general lit section is usually way broader than sci-fi fantasy. You will have Clive Cussler sitting beside Camus. I always saw the fact scifi and fantasy got it's own section as a sign of popularity.
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May 8, 2017 20:36
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well, this subforum for one. Also in general I think I see media that tends to cater to white males, and sci fi fantasy has traditionally been a genre for white males. Nah its because Sci-Fi and Fantasy are ghetto as gently caress and get out of our overweight white man hood.
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May 8, 2017 20:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I just read a litRPG fight scene that was a series of statistical information I like lit-RPG because I have garbage taste, and even I find stat sheets and character skills cringe. Which book was it, most of the USA based ones are marginally better because they have wider influences than the Russia scene which basically flowed from Legendary Moonlight Sculptor (Korean...really bad) > Play to Live (Russian, meh to awful) > the rest of the Russian scene.
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May 8, 2017 21:11
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I think there's an Iain Banks comment that he met lit readers who assumed 'Iain Banks' was his favourite but M. Banks paid the bills, while the opposite was closer to the truth.
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May 8, 2017 21:11
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Peel posted:I think there's an Iain Banks comment that he met lit readers who assumed 'Iain Banks' was his favourite but M. Banks paid the bills, while the opposite was closer to the truth. you mean the one already posted on this page
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May 8, 2017 21:13
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Xaris posted:SF has always been extremely niche with perhaps some vocal and annoying fat nerdy fans. Going to any bookstore in my city, SF/Fantasy section is just as small as Mystery section for instance meanwhile general fiction/lit fic always massive and spans easily 3x as much. Sometimes its lucky if theres more than a tiny section of a backwall with more than LOTR, GoT and zombie-vampire romance books. I would suspect that the biggest sci-fi book sellers are tie-ins to popular movies, i.e. Star Wars books and the like. Or maybe there's just loads of these published? IDK, I went to a local bookstore with a decent sf/f section and at least 10% of it was Star Wars books.
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May 8, 2017 22:19
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coyo7e posted:
That would be the "Bifrost Guardian" books by Mickey Zucker Reichart. What kind of surprising is that they aren't actually all that bad despite the author's clear intention to make them bad!
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May 8, 2017 23:33
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Well to be entirely fair, I found my copy of Bifrost Guardians in a remaindered book bin, with the cover torn off, so I really expected it to be utter trash. It contained the whole trilogy in one book and I don't think I ever finished it.uberkeyzer posted:Portal fantasy. The genre in modern times probably starts with A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, but it encompasses Narnia, Fionavar Tapestry, probably John Carter of Mars, etc etc. 
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May 8, 2017 23:34
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