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TheRat posted:You're going to struggle to convince nazis to do the right thing. And we're more likely to convince them of the economic benefits??
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May 9, 2017 01:40
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BabyFur Denny posted:And we're more likely to convince them of the economic benefits?? Chip away at the rationalizations and what remains is the complete lack of humanity laid bare for everyone to see.
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May 9, 2017 01:42
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BabyFur Denny posted:And we're more likely to convince them of the economic benefits?? Bash The Fash
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May 9, 2017 01:45
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Squalid posted:In the United States Somali immigrants had an unemployment rate of about 21% in 2011-13, or about three times the rate for the general population. Considering most lack even the equivalent of a high school diploma the difference would be much small r if normalized for educational attainment. Could be better, but what the hell is Finland doing wrong that employment rates are so low? Somalis have similar atrocious employment percentages in Norway and Sweden. But in USA and the Gulf area they are known as shrewd businessmen and hard workers. Something in the Nordic welfare state doesn't seem to fit them. Nobody can really say definitely of course but studies, research, statistic and even the Somali Unions own accounts (Finnish link I posted earlier) have shown that in Finland: - Somali women by and large don't work that often in Nordic countries .They do these days even in Somalia (they did not use to though, but it has changed) and certainly I imagine in USA and you can see that in the numbers (women not working: 50% outta workforce.) - Somali women are the largest "single mom" group in Finland (almost 50% if Somali mothers were registered as single mothers in 2015) which is ridiculous as they have very large family sizes at the same time (and if you know about Somali culture, you also know girls don't get pregnant all the time without a husband their community recognizes). Their actual husband just lives in another apartment or country, or the relationship is polygamous which brings to... - Having many kids and being pregnant often, and concentrating on homemaking puts you outta the workforce and they often speak and read Finnish poorly even after spending long periods in the country, since they don't simply need to. Finnish social service and social insurance institution provide translators if needed. - Politician Husu Hussein, of Somalia himself, is of the opinion a society like Finland "integrates" Somalis straight to the social services.. They are primarly taught how to use different benefits when they arrive, and trying to get them to the local job market or leaning the language come long distant second. - Nordic welfare states pay much of your "benefits" in rent and housing did you know? Kids get the priority. You a young single man? gently caress off. A mon with 3 or 4 kids? The city will find you a large apartment post haste, and probably of the size you usually need two working adults for otherwise. So a Somali single mon has very few incentives to find work unless it is extremely well paid, since various benefits will rake you depending on stuff 2000€+/month, already. - The men perform very poorly educationally (girls are ok afaik). I don't know what that is about. It's a fact everywhere in the West if your parents are poorly educated and often unemployed you are more likely to be so as well. Vicious cycle. I remember reading that families are so large and Finnish apartments are often planned for Finnish families, it is crowded and studying is hard but that might been just a single report from one small suburb. - Somalis have strong communities. Somali kids are like all the other kids when young and growing up. But when reaching later teens or young adulthood kids often drop between "two cultures". Girls might finish education, then immediately get married and have 3 kids. Guys have problems finishing education and often come from families without at least a regular father. Also more conservative parents send kids from Europe to Quran Schools back home if they around hitting puberty are becoming "too Western" which puts you back a few years quickly (I've never found data on how common this is, probably because nobody knows, but it comes up often kids from certain countries just vanish before semester and nobody from the family tells why). - In USA, correct me if I'm wrong, you just cannot be a man and a woman from Somalia, and have the government treat you both with your own apartments and spending cash and have 5 kids and are AND be unemployed AND survive. In here it is an option, and if you are the husband of the family unit, you can rent the husbands flat in the black market (social services have no way of finding out if you do this) and be financially ok - or at least far better than Kenya where many Somalis come from. But In USA you would be loving destitute in this situation, right? So there is one theory in according to which Somalis in USA are basically forced to work (I once read their median yearly salary is less than 50% or even as close as only 30% to the median white earners) to pay rent and support even one or two kids through education. Before someone flips out: I don't think being forced to work is a good thing, but you can imagine how it affects unemployment numbers. Also in USA it is much easier to hire and fire workers in general. Makes lovely jobs really lovely, but also the market more fluid which helps migrants.
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May 9, 2017 01:46
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BabyFur Denny posted:It doesn't matter. Which is my point. Instead of trying to convince somebody of some vague economic benefits and getting lost in arguments (point in case: the recent discussion itt) we should focus on the fact that it's the right thing to do and we don't get to be assholes just because we were lucky enough to be born in a rich country. They'll point out that if you're so concerned with helping people why don't You help the people in your country first,while fully aware that you can actually do both,if we kill the rich.of course this might upset them because they are the bootlickers of the rich and or temporally embarrassed millionaires ,sad people with sad brains that either delight in the suffering of others or are mild sociopaths that blame their various shortcomings solely on external factors ,being as their wont lacking in introspection,morals and a rich inner life. You know,dipshits.
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May 9, 2017 01:50
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BabyFur Denny posted:I am completely in support of welcoming refugees and proud that my country is doing so, but I am also somehow in doubt that it's economical beneficial to do so, at least within the first one or two generations, and believe that claiming those economic benefits hurts more than it helps this cause. In the US where a large proportion of refugees are Latin Americans who entered illegally (obviously these are not the official refugees but they'd get killed at home all the same), they are made to contribute to social security (the state pension) but will never be able to draw benefits, and many will return to their home country eventually either willingly or through deportation before old age anyway. Kind of hosed up Salvadoran farm laborers are paying for my retirement benefits but you can't say they aren't giving anything back!
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May 9, 2017 02:05
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MiddleOne posted:Ligur, I'm sure someone would listen to you if your arguments corresponded to reality. Sweden and Germany received the brunt of refugees in-between 2011 and 2015. You spent the brunt of this period complaining highly in Scandipol about the disaster this would bring and when met with any opposition you would rapidly escape into the finpol thread to complain loudly. Well today it's 2017 and as it turns out both Sweden and Germany are among the top-performing economies in the western hemisphere. If receiving immigrants is an economic malaise on the scale that you would suggest then it sure hasn't shown. Hahaha, do you even ever read my posts? That's another lovely, left wing hyperbole. You are almost touchingly attatched to your often repeat "argument" that since neither Sweden or Germany did not and will not instantly economically collapse haaa there are no problems! You proveded teh ligur wrong now, see?!? Look. The claim that hundreds of thousands or millions of poorly educated young Arab and African men are an economic boon to a West EU country is false. That they are a rather expensive burden is factual. Why do you insist on claiming otherwise then calling other people smugly reality deficit when it's u? It's loving hilarious though. And the literally billions of € spent monthly to cover up for migration is not a trivial matter. Also I consider violent assaults on German, Sweden and Finnish citizens by people who are supposedly here because we have to help them loving disasters, you creep. Or are terror attacks or violence bad only if... a right winger is behind. I'm sure you won't get the following, but nobody has ever said Sweden or Germany will vanish down an economic (or otherwise) blackhole any time soon, that was the stupid hyperbole. At least I have not seen anyone say that. A country can take a hell of a beating before going down. What you get is more unemployment, more crime, more frustrated young men with nothing to do in an alien culture they don't even like or even respect, more suburbs with 85% unemployment and 90% migrant population who torch cars every week, and all this is expensive as hell. If European Country X ever wanted to help the money used housing idle guys in the most expensive countries of the world would be MUCH better spent otherwise and elsewhere vis a vis how much help we can offer. These are some things nobody here has been unable to refute in any manner close to an actual argument, only trying to stop conversation by screaming "nazi nazi" (in USA liberal lefties scream, I mean just scream incoherently and shout and yell about KKK and fascism, in here they yell about the Nazis, I wonder if they have other differing aspects).
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May 9, 2017 02:42
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So what are the chances Macron gets a friendly legislature? I'm assuming his first priorities are going to be deregulation and spending cuts? What are the chances the left-ish policies he proposed, like making the EU Parliament more democratic, and increasing social spending, actually happen?
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May 9, 2017 04:01
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Geriatric Pirate posted:there is hardly ever going to be a clean consensus based on empirical work, meaning that we should rely on theory or at least structural work. Empirical correlations are quite useless
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May 9, 2017 04:06
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icantfindaname posted:So what are the chances Macron gets a friendly legislature? I'm assuming his first priorities are going to be deregulation and spending cuts? What are the chances the left-ish policies he proposed, like making the EU Parliament more democratic, and increasing social spending, actually happen? Polls point to ridiculously high chances if he can work with the republicans as a coalition.
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May 9, 2017 04:52
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Agnosticnixie posted:Polls point to ridiculously high chances if he can work with the republicans as a coalition. How about the second part? So he'll probably get his spending cuts, deregulation, etc, through, do you expect any more left policy to counterbalance that?
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May 9, 2017 05:08
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icantfindaname posted:How about the second part? So he'll probably get his spending cuts, deregulation, etc, through, do you expect any more left policy to counterbalance that? Probably none, they might pay lip service to social issues but like, signs point to EM and the Republicans getting an absurd share of the vote and FN is currently polling higher than either left party. It's horrifying.
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May 9, 2017 05:19
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To what extent do French MPs hold their seats based on personal popularity in their disctrict as opposed to party affiliation? Do you actually get lots of turnover between elections or do people hold their seats for a whole career?
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May 9, 2017 05:41
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Ligur posted:The claim that hundreds of thousands or millions of poorly educated young Arab and African men are an economic boon to a West EU country is false. That they are a rather expensive burden is factual. ... And the literally billions of € spent monthly to cover up for migration is not a trivial matter. I zoomed in on the part where you actually make some kind of statement instead of trailing off irrelevant into nonsense. It kinda has to be because otherwise it would show with the economy performing poorly no? If it was a significant sum, like you claim here, it should by your own logic have significant consequences. Alas, such consequences must either be absent or 'trivial' as they clearly do not seem to impact the health of the wider economy. And no, there is no billions of € spent monthly, try billions of € spent yearly which is less by a factor of 12. Billions is also not a big measurement in government budgetting, it's the normal one. Furthermore, there is nothing inherently problematic about money being spent, especially not when both of the aforementioned countries have budget surpluses. I'd get into the nonsense but I'm afraid the answer is 99% 'citation needed' and we both know that the sources you do have are mostly alt-right newspapers, blogs and studies you struggle reading so it felt rather pointless. 
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May 9, 2017 06:14
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Ligur posted:Also I consider violent assaults on German, Sweden and Finnish citizens by people who are supposedly here because we have to help them loving disasters, you creep. Or are terror attacks or violence bad only if... a right winger is behind.
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May 9, 2017 07:14
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He literally can't help himself.
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May 9, 2017 07:22
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Finnish media is revealing to the public that the money to "help Greece" went to French and German banks. I bet Melkor's surprised.
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May 9, 2017 07:23
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x420ReDdIT_Br0nYx posted:Hell yeah! Now Macron just needs to offer Valls and Bayrou a position and I'm going to win a bet. I saw this coming a mile away, they met during the campaign for a reason and it wasn't because he wanted to see what he could do for Nice From your lips to God's ears: quote:L'ancien Premier ministre socialiste Manuel Valls a annoncé mardi qu'il serait "candidat de la majorité présidentielle" aux élections législatives de juin, souhaitant s'"inscrire" dans le mouvement du président élu Emmanuel Macron. "Comme j'invite d'ailleurs tous les députés sortants, les progressistes, ceux qui ont appelé à voter Emmanuel Macron avant le premier tour, ceux qui souhaitaient sa victoire, moi, je serai candidat de la majorité présidentielle, et souhaite m'inscrire dans ce mouvement qui est le sien, La République en marche", a-t-il déclaré sur RTL. Le Parti socialiste "c'est une histoire pour moi (...). Mais ce Parti socialiste est mort, il est derrière nous. Pas son histoire et ses valeurs.", a notamment estimé Manuel Valls. (Valls will be a candidate for Macron's party in the elections for the Assemblée Nationale ) endlessmonotony posted:Finnish media is revealing to the public that the money to "help Greece" went to French and German banks. Of course it did, paying the creditors is usually how you avert a bankrupcy. The question is, has anyone seen fit to report that this also saved the banking system in Greece? Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 07:41 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 07:37
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endlessmonotony posted:Finnish media is revealing to the public that the money to "help Greece" went to French and German banks. Link?
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May 9, 2017 07:38
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Pizdec posted:Holy poo poo you guys weren't kidding, the cracks start showing just like a few posts in. Ligur is such a goddamn nazi that even Finnpol calls him out on it. His entire gimmick is that he's Just Asking Questions that just so happen to be based on nazi propaganda and that he has a massive persecution complex that is triggered by anybody calling him out on his bullshit.
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May 9, 2017 07:39
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LemonDrizzle posted:here is a happy poll to cheer everyone up!
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May 9, 2017 07:50
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More polls for the poll throne https://twitter.com/Wahlrecht_de/status/861710414467477506
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May 9, 2017 07:56
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Cerebral Bore posted:Ligur is such a goddamn nazi that even Finnpol calls him out on it. His entire gimmick is that he's Just Asking Questions that just so happen to be based on nazi propaganda and that he has a massive persecution complex that is triggered by anybody calling him out on his bullshit. but blowfish really wants you to rationally debunk this poo poo, continually! think of the lurkers 
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May 9, 2017 08:05
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the ps looks turbo hosed
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May 9, 2017 08:19
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Cerebral Bore posted:Ligur is such a goddamn nazi that even Finnpol calls him out on it. His entire gimmick is that he's Just Asking Questions that just so happen to be based on nazi propaganda and that he has a massive persecution complex that is triggered by anybody calling him out on his bullshit.
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May 9, 2017 08:22
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Kurtofan posted:the ps looks turbo hosed
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May 9, 2017 08:22
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Kurtofan posted:the ps looks turbo hosed to think that hamon remained in the race so as to not deprive the party of national funding
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May 9, 2017 08:24
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Bild gets right to the heart of the matter as ever: https://twitter.com/MMQWalker/status/861841587587907585
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May 9, 2017 08:45
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LemonDrizzle posted:Bild gets right to the heart of the matter as ever: In Germany there almost is a Macron-mania with all the left-wing publications falling over themselves in explaining that for some reason Germany, and Merkel in particular, have now to agree to all the silly ideas of Macron (Eurobonds, Eurozone budget etc.) because Macron won. I don't really understand that logic and have supreme confidence in the our finance minister that at most it will some fluffy plan that actually does nothing (see Juncker Plan) of importance. A few examples of the "Merkel needs to do it now because we really really want it and it doesn't matter that it's political suicide http://www.economist.com/blogs/kaffeeklatsch/2017/05/if-macron-fails-germany-fails http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/wahl-in-frankreich-merkels-moment-1.3495658
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May 9, 2017 08:51
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French ex-prime minister Valls plans to back Macron in June elections Valls: never letting go
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May 9, 2017 08:52
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Kassad posted:French ex-prime minister Valls plans to back Macron in June elections GaussianCopula posted:In Germany there almost is a Macron-mania with all the left-wing publications falling over themselves in explaining that for some reason Germany, and Merkel in particular, have now to agree to all the silly ideas of Macron (Eurobonds, Eurozone budget etc.) because Macron won. I don't really understand that logic and have supreme confidence in the our finance minister that at most it will some fluffy plan that actually does nothing (see Juncker Plan) of importance.
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May 9, 2017 09:06
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Kassad posted:French ex-prime minister Valls plans to back Macron in June elections quote:"Il n’a pas été investi par la Commission nationale d’investiture, ou alors sa candidature m’a échappé", a ironisé le porte-parole Benjamin Griveaux sur Europe 1. "Il aurait dû déposer sa candidature comme chacun, puisque la règle est la même pour tous. Si vous ne déposez pas votre candidature vous ne pouvez pas être investi par En Marche!. Il lui reste 24 heures. La procédure est la même pour tout le monde, ancien Premier ministre compris." En Marche already has someone in the district Valls wants to run in and he didn't formally apply for the position. What a huge poo poo. He has 24h to turn in the paperwork.
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May 9, 2017 09:07
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unpacked robinhood posted:En Marche already has someone in the district Valls wants to run in and he didn't formally apply for the position. What a huge poo poo. He has 24h to turn in the paperwork. They should deny him anyway
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May 9, 2017 09:15
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Flowers For Algeria posted:They should deny him anyway "According to our review you're a 'pretentious overconfident piece of poo poo' "
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May 9, 2017 09:18
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i hope they send valls packing, he is a toxic toxic little man
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May 9, 2017 09:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:Will Schaeuble actually remain finance minister after September? He's 75 already - it'd be asking a lot for him to keep going in the role for another term. He is standing for the next Bundestag, so at least he is not quitting politics this election cycle and he is only 74 not 75. Whether he stays finance minister on the other hand is another question which will probably depend more on whether the CDU/CSU actually keep the finance ministry in the coalition negotiations after the election. But it's not like he is the lone guardian of financial stability, most of the CDU/CSU are at least as hawkish as he is on the topic. Moreover even the SPD would never agree to Eurobonds or any expensive programs, the farthest they will go is to not cry foul when France uses accounting tricks to reduce their deficit (e.g. subtracting "war on terror" spending from the calculation) or not blocking a Eurozone budget if it is fueled by a new tax (e.g. financial transaction tax after Brexit) but I highly doubt that that will happen anyway. and yup, Valls is now En Marche! https://twitter.com/YanniKouts/status/861859128209289218
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May 9, 2017 09:28
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Flowers For Algeria posted:They should deny him anyway Kurtofan posted:i hope they send valls packing, he is a toxic toxic little man https://twitter.com/boucherbrigit/status/861853852252942336 "If Manuel Valls is a candidate under the La République En Marche label "he will be accepted" according to a member of the nomination committee"
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May 9, 2017 09:43
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endlessmonotony posted:This however requires the government to commit to integrating them to the workforce instead of waffling on about the free market. Also the left being honest that the jobs the refugees are suited for are building roads, farming low-quality land and digging through trash. Language and education are the foundations of successful integration.
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May 9, 2017 10:04
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Goa Tse-tung posted:but blowfish really wants you to rationally debunk this poo poo, continually! well if you can list some convincing sources once and then literally link a pastebin with links to them in it and say "checkmate idiot" that's still a step forward
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May 9, 2017 10:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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endlessmonotony posted:Finnish media is revealing to the public that the money to "help Greece" went to French and German banks. Why would I be surprised, I've been saying this for years. Or is that  ?e: I love it that the first thing Macron said after election was "we must think of the people that voted Le Pen", not you know "thank you leftists that pinched your nose and voted for me". gently caress those guys, what were they going to do anyway, vote for the fascist?  Now, what to privatize first?  e2: LemonDrizzle posted:Will Schaeuble actually remain finance minister after September? He's 75 already - it'd be asking a lot for him to keep going in the role for another term. e3: GaussianCopula posted:the farthest they will go is to not cry foul when France uses accounting tricks to reduce their deficit (e.g. subtracting "war on terror" spending from the calculation) MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 11:09 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 10:55
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