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Hodgepodge posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's leader of the Labour Party, which is in opposition, not the leader of the government or the effort to oppose Brexit? Making excuses for him won't change the outcome in June and won't make the last year not have happened. Labour became a shitshow after he refused to resign and it is still a shitshow now. That was the turning point. I know it sucks and its unfair that cameron's brexit ref spoiled the leftist renaissance or whatever, but the brexit is spoiling a lot of things, and that's just the way it is. Corbyn's position became untenable after he failed to lead his half of the electorate away from the brexit cliff. So did cameron's, but cameron resigned like he should have. The brexit ref was like a general election, but much more important, and both major parties lost. When you lose a general election you resign.
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May 9, 2017 04:48
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Except it wasn't a general election, it was a referendum called by the government. Which was their bad decision and their responsibility. It seems to me that one would really have to be desperate to tie the opposition to a failure in order to decide that they're responsible for the governing party's mistakes. I get that you want the guy gone because he's a bad leader, but that doesn't make Brexit a referendum on Corbyn. E: A quick look tells me that his position was a pretty reluctant no on Brexit, and his own supporters opposed this because they shared longstanding criticisms of the EU with him. And his no position had to be careful to distance itself from the Tory position on the EU. Honestly, looking at that and coming away with the idea that he should resign over the outcome strikes me as a line of bullshit. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 05:12 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 05:05
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Hodgepodge posted:Except it wasn't a general election, it was a referendum called by the government. Which was their bad decision and their responsibility. Enjoy June 8th I guess. Corbyn was leader of the labour party, he failed to convince his half of the electorate not to vote for brexit, he failed as a leader. He's been a failed leader ever since.
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May 9, 2017 05:16
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If labor had the political sense to run the idiot child of a liked ex PM they might be doing better!
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May 9, 2017 05:22
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hakimashou posted:Enjoy June 8th I guess. Frankly, given that he was ambivalent over Brexit and that the EU does not appear to be popular, he may actually represent his party's base better than someone who was wholeheartedly for the no position. He may still be a lovely leader, but this line of argument reminds me a great deal of that of establishment Democrats who can't grasp that they are the problem. And a good look at why Bernie might not have won- because the Democratic Party, like Labour, is full of people whose politics are so far from that of their base that the two may require the invention of an FLT drive to ever meet.
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May 9, 2017 05:23
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Baloogan posted:If labor had the political sense to run the idiot child of a liked ex PM they might be doing better! sexy idiot child* that part is important
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May 9, 2017 05:34
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Who can kinda box! That's the most important part of all.
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May 9, 2017 05:39
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Hodgepodge posted:Frankly, given that he was ambivalent over Brexit and that the EU does not appear to be popular, he may actually represent his party's base better than someone who was wholeheartedly for the no position. labour's base was overwhelmingly for remain. the difference between bernie and corbyn is that corbyn is only 1 point more popular than donald trump, and widely disliked by his own party. so i think maybe corbyn might be the one who isn't really anywhere near his base
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May 9, 2017 05:39
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Concerned Citizen posted:labour's base was overwhelmingly for remain. the difference between bernie and corbyn is that corbyn is only 1 point more popular than donald trump, and widely disliked by his own party. so i think maybe corbyn might be the one who isn't really anywhere near his base Ah, okay. My understanding is limited, so I'm bound to be wrong. Taking that into account, though, how was Tory support for Brexit? Like, if Labour's base was against Brexit, moreso than even their leader, then I'm not sure there was a lot he could do to make them more against it. The better argument against Corbyn here might be that Brexit revealed that his leadership doesn't reflect the will of his base. But he did show he was willing to represent their will on the matter, and it would also depend on whether this distance is present in his other positions. e: I've also tended to be skeptical of the idea that Bernie's popularity would survive his becoming the Democratic candidate, both because of party/media fuckery and simply because it's easier to be popular when you aren't the candidate. With the added factor of the incompetence of British polling being, last I heard, one of the more universally accepted causes of Brexit. On the other hand, I might accept the argument that he should use his leverage to negotiate for a leader who can represent his concerns in the party now, while he has some leverage. However, the people who want him to leave are also the most vehement voices undermining that leverage, no? Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 05:53 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 05:46
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weak, kooky Corbyn can't even resign when half his cabinet publically stabs themselves through the gut in some bizarre attempt to own him as he stood behind them!  !!!
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May 9, 2017 05:53
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Concerned Citizen posted:labour's base was overwhelmingly for remain. the difference between bernie and corbyn is that corbyn is only 1 point more popular than donald trump, and widely disliked by his own party. so i think maybe corbyn might be the one who isn't really anywhere near his base The problem is, what is labour's base? There's the Party Member people who pay money to get to vote for the leader and call themselves "members of the labour party", and then there's the electorate, the people who vote for labour in elections and whose support the labour party can't win elections without. The Party Member types love corbyn, but labour's actual voting base without whom they can never win an election don't seem to care much for him at all, so you get the result you got a few days ago, his abysmal polling, and most likely, a bloodbath in June.
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May 9, 2017 06:01
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Nanomashoes posted:Jeremy Corbyn has made all these terrible decisions that doomed his party like uhh... having bad articles written about him. I love me some hard left assholes, but lol this is reason enough. Hillary taught this particular lesson real well. Once you're in the muck, it doesn't much matter how you got there. Of course, from everything I've heard there's no real alternative so whatever
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May 9, 2017 06:14
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Homeless Friend posted:I love me some hard left assholes, but lol this is reason enough. Hillary taught this particular lesson real well. Once you're in the muck, it doesn't much matter how you got there. Of course, from everything I've heard there's no real alternative so whatever The british press is terrible and sucks Tory dick every day. There will never be a labor leader that they like until their lives are being threatened by the mass communist uprising. If this is your standard for a bad leader then Labor will have to have a new election every week as the press slams each new sequential leader until the people wind up voting Cameron in for labor leader or somthing.
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May 9, 2017 06:17
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corbyn is on a different level of unpopularity though
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May 9, 2017 06:19
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Nanomashoes posted:The british press is terrible and sucks Tory dick every day. There will never be a labor leader that they like until their lives are being threatened by the mass communist uprising. If this is your standard for a bad leader then Labor will have to have a new election every week as the press slams each new sequential leader until the people wind up voting Cameron in for labor leader or somthing. ya it stinks, but it is what it is lol. I don't have any deep insights but if the press is gonna bury a fucker they're gonna get buried.
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May 9, 2017 06:20
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The Guardian shouts three hurrahs for new Labour leader Joany Glaire. A new face with new ideas.
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May 9, 2017 06:20
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Homeless Friend posted:I love me some hard left assholes, but lol this is reason enough. Hillary taught this particular lesson real well. Once you're in the muck, it doesn't much matter how you got there. Of course, from everything I've heard there's no real alternative so whatever corbyn owns but hes boring as hell
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May 9, 2017 06:20
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in america, i tend to mock those who wish to leave for canada over election results; all the people who really wanted that got out after the revolution. but for brits, it's sort of tradition!
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May 9, 2017 06:21
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A socialist leader could conceivably counterbalance their inevitable terrible press somewhat by regularly saying and doing things to inspire the populace and letting it go viral. People are desperately hungry for that sort of thing right now. But that would require being something other than a total void in the charisma department.
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May 9, 2017 06:27
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anime was right posted:corbyn owns but hes boring as hell He really inspires some good rear end meltdowns & crazy rationalizations. It's hella good reading as a spectator.
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May 9, 2017 06:30
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Homeless Friend posted:He really inspires some good rear end meltdowns & crazy rationalizations. It's hella good reading as a spectator. yeah for sure. like hes not going to win anything by nature of him being a political pimento cheese sandwich, but he owns owns owns
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May 9, 2017 06:35
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:A socialist leader could conceivably counterbalance their inevitable terrible press somewhat by regularly saying and doing things to inspire the populace and letting it go viral. People are desperately hungry for that sort of thing right now. But that would require being something other than a total void in the charisma department. Once he sat on a train floor and another time he mowed his lawn in a t-shirt. Both of these things seemed pretty cool to me.
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May 9, 2017 06:35
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also I can't be the only person who is always amazed at the sexual aspect of British politics right, like I dunno if it's different brand of conservatism but british conservatives really seem to kick it up a notch. Our sexual scandals & poo poo seem bland by comparison. You got big names /w posters of magaret thatcher about their bed for their entire childhood, ppl fuckin pigs, dominatrix may. What the hell is goin on over there. Our rapers n pedos or w/e seem milquetoast in comparison
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May 9, 2017 06:39
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Nanomashoes posted:Once he sat on a train floor and another time he mowed his lawn in a t-shirt. Both of these things seemed pretty cool to me. https://twitter.com/richardbranson/status/768070742135152640 awkward
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May 9, 2017 06:40
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lol our politicans just suck dicks, it's so boring
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May 9, 2017 06:41
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the man likes trains
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May 9, 2017 06:42
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Homeless Friend posted:You got big names /w posters of magaret thatcher about their bed for their entire childhood, ppl fuckin pigs, dominatrix may. What the hell is goin on over there. Average tory MP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ_tbf6j2A Average republican congressman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULeDlxa3gyc
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May 9, 2017 06:44
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richard branson took out the mayor of branson, mo and now he's gunning for corbyn
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May 9, 2017 06:48
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Nanomashoes posted:The british press is terrible and sucks Tory dick every day. There will never be a labor leader that they like until their lives are being threatened by the mass communist uprising. If this is your standard for a bad leader then Labor will have to have a new election every week as the press slams each new sequential leader until the people wind up voting Cameron in for labor leader or somthing. “Politicians who complain about the press are like sailors complaining about the sea”
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May 9, 2017 07:55
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Homeless Friend posted:also I can't be the only person who is always amazed at the sexual aspect of British politics right, like I dunno if it's different brand of conservatism but british conservatives really seem to kick it up a notch. Our sexual scandals & poo poo seem bland by comparison. You got big names /w posters of magaret thatcher about their bed for their entire childhood, ppl fuckin pigs, dominatrix may. What the hell is goin on over there. Our rapers n pedos or w/e seem milquetoast in comparison  He's a real member of the house of lords, that's a real prostitute's bra, and its real cocaine he's railing there on the front page of the newspaper.
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May 9, 2017 07:58
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Homeless Friend posted:also I can't be the only person who is always amazed at the sexual aspect of British politics right, like I dunno if it's different brand of conservatism but british conservatives really seem to kick it up a notch. Our sexual scandals & poo poo seem bland by comparison. You got big names /w posters of magaret thatcher about their bed for their entire childhood, ppl fuckin pigs, dominatrix may. What the hell is goin on over there. Our rapers n pedos or w/e seem milquetoast in comparison The Aristocrats
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May 9, 2017 08:03
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hello everyone. so i consider myself to be a real 'progressive' hep cat. i mean i read THE GUARDIAN, yeah that's just the kind of guy i am. anyway here are my views about why corbyn is a piece of poo poo for not embracing blairite policies. no NO please just hear me out as i rehash 'lovely articles written by complete cunts' as you might currently judge them with your currently tiny unprogressive minds heh.
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May 9, 2017 08:12
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anyone who earns £70k or more is in the top 10% of earners in the UK. 150k is the top 5%. people need to realise taxes can be raised massively because they'll impact very few people
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May 9, 2017 08:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/861726915572486145 This reminds me of ohio polling that showed some real lol results on trade /w Hillary vs. Bernie
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May 9, 2017 09:22
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Except instead of Ohio it's the whole country.
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May 9, 2017 09:33
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lmao jeremy corbyn is going to be labour leader until he dies and until that time there will never be a non-tory PM
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May 9, 2017 09:43
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The 2 most popular newspapers in the UK have a combined circulation of 3 million people and they're both really right wing. All the right wing papers have a circulation of about 5.6 million. Not including the evening standard/metro which are free papers and have about 2.5 million readers since they're available on public transport. For comparison the guardian has a circulation of 150k. The daily mail supported the nazi's before WW2 and the sun is owned by murdoch. The press in the UK are so bad that fake news never really happened here because the papers lie so much
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May 9, 2017 09:43
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Next time labour are in power the main things they need to do is fully implement the leveson reforms on the press and bring in proper PR voting and accept they won't have an outright majority as often if at all from then on because the tories for sure won't. Brexit is really popular at the minute because the press are playing it off like the evil euro bureaucrats and nobody is feeling any real effect from it. Once we're out with the hard brexit we're getting and suddenly everything is 30% more expensive because the pound is worth the same as the dollar and we're now paying tariffs on all trade people might realise how badly they've hosed themselves
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May 9, 2017 09:45
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Jose posted:The 2 most popular newspapers in the UK have a combined circulation of 3 million people and they're both really right wing. All the right wing papers have a circulation of about 5.6 million. Not including the evening standard/metro which are free papers and have about 2.5 million readers since they're available on public transport. For comparison the guardian has a circulation of 150k. The daily mail supported the nazi's before WW2 and the sun is owned by murdoch. weird how conservatism is really popular with people who still read newspapers in this the year of our lord two thousand and seventeen
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May 9, 2017 09:50
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most people don't read the paper they choose to read because they think about the politics of it anyway labour are hosed because there has been a 3rd party hoovering up a large number of votes and they've all collapsed. The SNP has an extremely disproportionate share of seats considering how few votes they get but the lib dems/ukip died between this and the last election and they accounted for 15%+ of the votes
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May 9, 2017 10:23
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