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Simon Danczuk: Ex-Labour MP denies rape allegation
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May 10, 2017 12:53
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The Insect Court posted:Not that there's anything new with the "Corbyn's brilliant master plan was always to lose horribly" excuse from the Corbynistas, but it's always nice to hear it laid out so clearly and insanely. People that disagree with you are insane? This is a novel and endearing debate method.
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May 10, 2017 12:57
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Looks like he won't be getting a very cozy place at Murdoch media after all.
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May 10, 2017 13:00
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MikeCrotch posted:Plus, isn't the point of the media to hold the powerful to account and point out their lies and inconsistencies, which *clearly* isn't happening in the case of Tory policy escaping proper scrutiny on a regular basis, despite things like austerity having been shown to be completely terrible? there's a bit to unpack here for one, the mob does like to see the arrogant brought low. what fun! egg the snotty bastard. that's not quite the same thing as holding the powerful to account, however. you don't have to pry through one of chomsky's doorstoppers to realize this for another, "Labour rejects Austerity" is not, you know, news. it is already firmly embedded in the zeitgeist that Labour is profligate and loves spending. The Cruel Policies Of This Tory Government is a theme song that every British voter alive has heard more than once. would you like a brief interview with a family on benefits to go with your unhappy meal? this is not a message that is suffering mainly from a lack of exposure like the fact that People in Africa are Starving, it is quite possible to become completely inured to appeals to one's outrage. It's not even a very fun outrage! It's got all these complications in it. If you want really pure distilled outrage, any WHSmith's will probably have an expansive misery lit section, just waiting for your 3 for 2 purchase. ronya fucked around with this message at 13:11 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 13:06
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ronya posted:there's a bit to unpack here It's not about exposure, though, its about framing. Austerity is framed as a difficult decision which must be taken for the good of the economy and future generations. The response to this, especially in the media, is to focus on the easy-to-see, immediate (and genuinely horrible) human stories of those on the sharp end. It's treated as if its a question of heart vs head, rather than a question of whether 'expansionary fiscal contraction' is bullshit and we should pursue an alternative set of economic policies. The key argument against austerity is that it has consistently failed to achieve its stated aims. This is hardly interrogated at all by the media. You hardly ever hear from, for example, Ann Pettifor or other prominent economics talking about the problems with the UK's current approach. "Why is the UK Government's economic strategy failing?" should be dominating absolutely every aspect of modern politics. The "long term economic plan" was the Conservative's slogan for years, yet we have terrible productivity, an unprecedented decline in wages, increasing levels of insecure work, massive skills shortages in key areas, and a housing crisis. Almost every problem in these areas is being exacerbated by Government policy. You can argue that this is all very dry and the human interest stuff is easier to report on, which is true. It's also true that austerity economics allow for simple household budgeting analogies. But this will be the case for almost any left/right split, conservative explanations tend to be simpler. This doesn't mean we should accept lower levels of scrutiny. It's also revealing how quickly the sensible centrists in the broadcast media suddenly regain their interest in policy details and the technical stuff when they are faced with something like a pay cap, free hospital parking or free school meals.
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May 10, 2017 13:40
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MikeCrotch posted:
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May 10, 2017 13:47
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https://twitter.com/daily_politics Are UKIP relevant any more? Let's discuss at excruciating length. That question was headline news on Look East the other day as well. I expect a Panorama ep on it, and probably a Horizon one and all.
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May 10, 2017 13:47
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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They're relevant in that they were some kind of Tory time bomb making idiots question why Corbyn couldn't appeal to these people over the Tories. UKIP down 9 points, Tories up 9 points!?!??!? CORBYNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
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May 10, 2017 14:03
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Alertrelic posted:It's not about exposure, though, its about framing. Austerity is framed as a difficult decision which must be taken for the good of the economy and future generations. The response to this, especially in the media, is to focus on the easy-to-see, immediate (and genuinely horrible) human stories of those on the sharp end. It's treated as if its a question of heart vs head, rather than a question of whether 'expansionary fiscal contraction' is bullshit and we should pursue an alternative set of economic policies. The key argument against austerity is that it has consistently failed to achieve its stated aims. This is hardly interrogated at all by the media. You hardly ever hear from, for example, Ann Pettifor or other prominent economics talking about the problems with the UK's current approach. I dislike that, too, but I have resigned myself to the fact that anti-austerity politics is wholly conquered by people who are themselves gleefully susceptible to a heart-vs-head framing
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May 10, 2017 14:08
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Tory 2015 election overspends were "Inaccurate but not dishonest" rules CPS and Electoral Commission Oh good. I'm glad they get some leeway on this. It's not like it's anything important, like an ESA application or being 10 minutes late for a JSA appointment. Just a potentially election shifting funding distortion in dozens of key marginal seats. Wouldn't want to hold them to too high an accuracy standard.
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May 10, 2017 14:21
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ronya posted:I dislike that, too, but I have resigned myself to the fact that anti-austerity politics is wholly conquered by people who are themselves gleefully susceptible to a heart-vs-head framing Well I mean people are literally dying because of austerity politics in entirely avoidable ways, so that doesn't seem necessarily like a bad thing
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May 10, 2017 14:31
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Regarde Aduck posted:They're relevant in that they were some kind of Tory time bomb making idiots question why Corbyn couldn't appeal to these people over the Tories. UKIP down 9 points, Tories up 9 points!?!??!? CORBYNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
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May 10, 2017 14:33
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May 10, 2017 14:37
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Undead Hippo posted:Tory 2015 election overspends were "Inaccurate but not dishonest" rules CPS and Electoral Commission The UK is going to give a historic majority to a party that: - ruined their economy by leaving the EU - ruined their currency by leaving the EU - is corrupt as poo poo - has key people who lied to the public (350m to NHS) - selected Boris Johnson as Foreign Minister - Is led by a woman who told everyone she does not want early election - until she did Your country deserves everything bad that is going to happen to you over the next decade.
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May 10, 2017 14:37
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Well one of my work friends went off on a massive rant today about how we should kill everyone in the middle east because they're all stupid and can't stop having wars and that immigrants can't contribute anything to society and can't be trusted because they're inherently uncivilized, and that people who ran the country 300 years ago would be disgusted if they could see it now, and that we should have a white british only society. So I guess that's that friendship done  She seemed confused at my look of horror and inability to really say anything to her afterwards. I guess perhaps she expects me to understand and sympathise with her, or maybe her normal environment isn't critical of those sorts of ideas. I dunno. I can understand and sympathise that she is a product of an environment the same as the rest of us and that my environment simply leads me to different conclusions, but I can't just pretend like I'm not utterly horrified by what she said.I wonder what she would say if I told her I'm bisexual and that within living memory that exact same thing has been said about people like me, and was used as justification for British state sponsored mutilation.
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May 10, 2017 14:38
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May 10, 2017 14:42
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OwlFancier posted:people who ran the country 300 years ago would be disgusted if they could see it now
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May 10, 2017 14:46
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Am I reading this wrong or is he denying a rape allegation that isn't even directed at him? Like, the article says a woman reported she was raped by a 50 year old man in westminster, and then subsequently that Danzcuck has denied it was him. Guavanaut posted:I mean I'm sure there would be disagreements between modernity and the views of the German immigrant Georg I, notably that Catholics are allowed to hold public office and people without any property are allowed to vote. I'm not sure that says anything about anything though. I was, sadly, too stunned to suggest "yes they wouldn't let you vote or work because you're a woman and you would be the legal property of the father of your kids". OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 14:47
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MikeCrotch posted:Well I mean people are literally dying because of austerity politics in entirely avoidable ways, so that doesn't seem necessarily like a bad thing the mistake is assuming that the median voter regards this (or, to be precise, the notion of a tough benefit cap) as an unfair outcome
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May 10, 2017 14:47
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GaussianCopula posted:Vomit gently caress off Nazi oval office
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May 10, 2017 14:54
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The woman was probably too old for Danczuk, to be honest.
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May 10, 2017 14:56
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Bright side, I think Danczuk just managed to cost himself the sun job he had lined up in record time.
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May 10, 2017 14:58
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GaussianCopula posted:The UK is going to give a historic majority to a party that: Who are posts like these aimed at? No one here votes Tory. Are you trying to make people who already know this country is stupid, feel worse? Why? Why don't you find a den of British people that actually deserve your scorn? Try GBS or something.
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May 10, 2017 14:58
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ronya posted:the mistake is assuming that the median voter regards this (or, to be precise, the notion of a tough benefit cap) as an unfair outcome Is there a good survey or something like that out there which shows what the median voter regards as fair/unfair? And any insight into the story of UK politics they have (e.g. Labour spent all the money, then burnt the economy, then we need to do austerity, then... etc)? I'm asking as I actually don't think I know any voters like that and that story & views are totally alien to me - it's disconcerting.
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May 10, 2017 14:59
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Regarde Aduck posted:Who are posts like these aimed at? No one here votes Tory. Are you trying to make people who already know this country is stupid, feel worse? Why? Why don't you find a den of British people that actually deserve your scorn? I assume GC gets aroused by people to tell him to gently caress off.
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May 10, 2017 15:00
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Regarde Aduck posted:Who are posts like these aimed at? No one here votes Tory. Are you trying to make people who already know this country is stupid, feel worse? Why? Why don't you find a den of British people that actually deserve your scorn? The people who celebrated Corbyn's ascension and victory when he was challenged. The reason that the Conservatives can do whatever they feel like is because there is no effective opposition. And before people tell me how Corbyn has all these great policy ideas, I'd like to quote Mr. Cartmenez "Look at the scoreboard, amigo"
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May 10, 2017 15:02
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gently caress off, nazi.
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May 10, 2017 15:12
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GaussianCopula posted:The people who celebrated Corbyn's ascension and victory when he was challenged. The reason that the Conservatives can do whatever they feel like is because there is no effective opposition. No, the reason the Conservatives can do what they like is because of Brexit.
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May 10, 2017 15:22
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GaussianCopula posted:The people who celebrated Corbyn's ascension and victory when he was challenged. The reason that the Conservatives can do whatever they feel like is because there is no effective opposition. Get the gently caress off our streets, nazi
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May 10, 2017 15:23
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Stabbatical posted:Is there a good survey or something like that out there which shows what the median voter regards as fair/unfair? And any insight into the story of UK politics they have (e.g. Labour spent all the money, then burnt the economy, then we need to do austerity, then... etc)? We have a Tory government, mate. Not enough people give a poo poo about "people dying" due to austerity policies. You have to sell them on the economic benefits of anti-austerity if you want to actually govern and end the tighten-our-belts nonsense.
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May 10, 2017 15:35
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https://twitter.com/benwhitelaw/status/862200046019858432
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May 10, 2017 15:40
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OwlFancier posted:Am I reading this wrong or is he denying a rape allegation that isn't even directed at him? He even says the police haven't asked him about it. 
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May 10, 2017 15:42
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Regarde Aduck posted:Who are posts like these aimed at? No one here votes Tory. Are you trying to make people who already know this country is stupid, feel worse? Why? Why don't you find a den of British people that actually deserve your scorn? I have voted for all 3 of the major (lol LD) parties once, iirc.
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May 10, 2017 15:45
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Tution worked so well before, Labour are reviving the lib dem pledge. Or not. Or something else entirely. I've not seen any interesting new metaphors about an actual left wing manifesto being written so I hope everyone's ready to hear about the manifesto being Foot 2.0 for a month
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May 10, 2017 15:46
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So is nobody gonna call out that the deadline to say what the new state pension age is has passed? I mean, since the tories haven't said anything it's basically bound to go up (and also because tories) and they're just not gonna say anything until after the election. Nobody's even gonna bring it up? What a joke.
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May 10, 2017 15:48
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sassassin posted:We have a Tory government, mate. Point taken but I'm not sure if that's enough by itself when the voting system is all hosed & turnout doesn't even make 70% of possible voters. Still, I guess I was asking about voters & not people who could but don't vote. quote:Not enough people give a poo poo about "people dying" due to austerity policies. You have to sell them on the economic benefits of anti-austerity if you want to actually govern and end the tighten-our-belts nonsense. True. But how? What could possibly work, if nothing has before now?
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May 10, 2017 15:52
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Alchenar posted:I recognise this, but I'm not sure you are strictly comparing like for like. The media decide whether or not they let themselves be 'managed'. It is entirely within the power of journalists to look at what Theresa May is doing and say 'you aren't answering our questions and are actively avoiding scrutiny. Also you lied about a bunch of stuff', but they don't. Instead they nod and smile when the microphone is taken away from them before they can ask a difficult question and go write an article about how amazing Theresa May is at managing the press.
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May 10, 2017 15:54
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I looked more into this, and it turns out that the Mail Online yesterday named him as the alleged rapist and claimed the police were going to interview him, then the Sun reported the Mail's report. No one else was willing to go near the story for fear of legal action until Danczuk denied it at which point everyone else barrelled in to report his denial (and thus by implication the allegation).
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May 10, 2017 16:18
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Spangly A posted:Tution worked so well before, Labour are reviving the lib dem pledge. Or not. Or something else entirely. Tuition fees are the biggest red herring in the loving world for the left. They don't impact the poorest because they only hit you once you earn above £21k which isn't living like a king or anything, but is still appreciable income. Even then, they're scaled in such a way that you're not going to be earning less if you hit that threshold. So effectively the abolition of tuition fees allow the middle classes to do better at the cost of income to the state that could be distributed to the poorest and they're not proven to have a significant impact on university application. Even if they were, the very cash channeled from the rich fucker who earns £100k at Goldman could be channeled to provide much poorer people better access to university education. The lib dems were loving idiots for supporting their abolition and labour are just as bad.
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May 10, 2017 16:18
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On the other hand they hit you based entirely on your household income which probably means your parents' income which may not have any bearing on your income after you've already got them. Education should be free to use and funded by taxing the wealthiest in society who may or may not be graduates and whose wealth may or may not be generated by graduates. There is no good reason to have tuition fees any more than there would be to charge people for using the NHS. If you're talking about the repayment method then I see absolutely no reason why the government should be expected to guarantee debt with interest in lieu of paying for the service up front. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:27 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 16:24
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