|
Pawl posted:Are you talking about Durthu? He has Rend-2. It does 6 (!!) damage per swing but it's not Rend-4. Daith's Reaper. It's an artifact that gives -4 Rend on 6+ to wound.
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 05:45 |
|
|
Man, the kombi-weapon buff seems to make Nobz better relative to Flash Gitz, but it was always dumb that rich pirate Orks couldn't afford proper CC weapons. And oh man, the Battlecannon combined with lots of H. Bolter shots?  One irritating thing I used to do with GSC was use a couple Tyranid stompy MCs alongside a rush of armor so whatever units weren't tied down in assault would have too many targets to properly handle the advance. Now it seems every weapon can be more effective against both vehicles and monsters, since everything has a Toughness value. I won't give a solitary soggy poo poo, though, so long as Lictors, Warriors, Shrikes, Raveners, and such are all viable again. I'm dying to see Bonesword and Big Bug rules. Also hoping that LRs can ignore the -1 To-Hit from moving with Heavy weapons.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:19
|
|
|
Huh, land raider crusader just jumped up from 17 to 33 shots a turn.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:22
|
|
|
Nooo! I literally just pulled all my heavy bolter sponsons off my Russes. Guess they're going back on.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Arven posted:Nooo! I literally just pulled all my heavy bolter sponsons off my Russes. Guess they're going back on. Games Workshop giveth and Games Workshop taketh away.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
Do we know what Rapid Fire does yet? And hmm, Meltaguns are good, but more limited in what they can achieve, yes. I've lost count of how many times I popped a Dread with a single melta shot, and that's not possible anymore even in the -best- achievable roll. Not to mention that about half the shots will simply fail to wound the big stuff if the trend of giving Vehicles/beasts T7-8 continues.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:Do we know what Rapid Fire does yet? I thought Rapid Fire was double shots at half range now.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:44
|
|
|
Arven posted:Nooo! I literally just pulled all my heavy bolter sponsons off my Russes. Guess they're going back on. They're still heavy 3, what about this changes things?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:Do we know what Rapid Fire does yet? Rapid fire is double shots at half range. It's looking like the system is going the way of AOS where they're not having USRs in the main rules but are gonna explain them in full on every individual unit / weapon. They could easily have done that for the Melta rule for instance.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:45
|
|
|
Yeah. It's kind of weird to me that the Melta is less strong than the Lascannon. I figured the humongous range difference and +1 to AP would give the two a differentiated enough niche even at equal strength and wounds rolled.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
Artum posted:They're still heavy 3, what about this changes things? Battle cannons are Heavy not Ordinance anymore.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
The Bee posted:Yeah. It's kind of weird to me that the Melta is less strong than the Lascannon. I figured the humongous range difference and +1 to AP would give the two a differentiated enough niche even at equal strength and wounds rolled. Well plus Meltaguns aren't heavy weapons Arven posted:Battle cannons are Heavy not Ordinance anymore. Yeah, hoping "Ordnance" is gone now
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:49
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Well plus Meltaguns aren't heavy weapons I hope it sticks but its just the shoot someone 3 miles away artillery sort of weapons as the name kind of implies, and we get some element of artillery spotting like the whirlwind/landspeeder formation had.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:51
|
|
|
Wow, so they nerfed the poo poo out of heavy bolters huh? If they're only 1 damage they're absolutely garbage against light vehicles now. They used to be quite potent against open topped AV10 stuff, now they won't really be any better than lasguns unless that open topped stuff is T5. Also the battle cannon is vastly better at killing T7 and targets than a lascannon is it looks like.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:53
|
|
|
At S5 they're wounding everything less than T10 on a 5+. They can actually scratch the paint on something other than a DE Raider, I'd call that an upgrade.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
Not sure how I feel about random number of shots and random number of damage on the same gun. Battle cannon seems super swingy, 1d3+2 and 2 damage would have been better i think Also have they adressed how allocating multiple hits that does multiple damage? Like if a battle cannon does 3 wounds do you roll 3d3 or 1d3x3. Also there seems like there could be potential allocation shenanigans if its 3d3.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:57
|
|
|
JesusIsTehCool posted:Not sure how I feel about random number of shots and random number of damage on the same gun. Battle cannon seems super swingy, 1d3+2 and 2 damage would have been better i think Time saving dictates that you roll the wounds and then roll a single d3 for everyone wounded.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 16:59
|
|
|
Someones going to 1 shot a morkanaut with a battlecannon and its going to be extremely funny.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
MasterSlowPoke posted:At S5 they're wounding everything less than T10 on a 5+. They can actually scratch the paint on something other than a DE Raider, I'd call that an upgrade. Yeah was about to post this. I think this sounds pretty good.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
DO IT TO IT posted:Yeah was about to post this. I think this sounds pretty good. yeah plus firing 3 shots at -1 BS on the move isn't too bad either
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
Also, looks like battle cannons are better AT than lascannons despite what the article says about being worse than dedicated AT weapons. At BS4, vs the T8 3+ leman russ, a lascannon is 1.29 wounds per shot, battle cannon is 1.55 wounds per shot. Vs the T7 3+ dreadnought, lascannon is 1.29 wounds per shot, battle cannon is 2.07 wounds per shot.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:06
|
|
|
As much as I love templates being gone, how are Basiliks going to work? Just pick any target on the table and do damage to it?
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
Artum posted:Someones going to 1 shot a morkanaut with a battlecannon and its going to be extremely funny. This happens all the time now though.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:08
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Also, looks like battle cannons are better AT than lascannons despite what the article says about being worse than dedicated AT weapons. Yeah, looks like. Though Battlecannons are going to mostly be fired at BS 3, which drops their effectiveness to 1.17 wounds per shot. I'm OK with a weapon that can only be mounted on a tank being better at punching through armor than a gun that a dude can carry, though e: Also, new Regimental Standard https://regimental-standard.com/2017/05/10/your-friend-the-commissar/
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:13
|
|
|
Artum posted:Time saving dictates that you roll the wounds and then roll a single d3 for everyone wounded. I'm on the fence if I can trust GW enough not to gently caress this up when it comes to multiwound stuff. In the simplest example a unit of terminators taking 3 battlecannon wounds could allocate 2 to one terminator then 1 to another, saving a third terminator from being wounded at all when suffering that wound would be a 66% chance to be killed outright. Meanwhile if you're allowed to only allocate a single pre-multiplication wound per model you'd quickly run into having to track the wounds of your terminators individually per model. If you multiply first then apply the resulting wound pools, a unit of 4 wound tyranids could take 3 wounds multiplying into 3, 3 and 1 respectively. Now you could stick 6 wounds on a 4 wound model and the other model only takes 1.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:13
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Also, looks like battle cannons are better AT than lascannons despite what the article says about being worse than dedicated AT weapons. How is it better? A battle cannon is D3 damage, a Lascannon is D6.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:15
|
|
|
Hra Mormo posted:I'm on the fence if I can trust GW enough not to gently caress this up when it comes to multiwound stuff. In the simplest example a unit of terminators taking 3 battlecannon wounds could allocate 2 to one terminator then 1 to another, saving a third terminator from being wounded at all when suffering that wound would be a 66% chance to be killed outright. Meanwhile if you're allowed to only allocate a single pre-multiplication wound per model you'd quickly run into having to track the wounds of your terminators individually per model. If you multiply first then apply the resulting wound pools, a unit of 4 wound tyranids could take 3 wounds multiplying into 3, 3 and 1 respectively. Now you could stick 6 wounds on a 4 wound model and the other model only takes 1. I'm really hopeful that they did away with wound allocation shenanigans. You take total number of wounds and start applying them to models. You cannot apply wounds to a 2nd model until the first is dead. I hope at least.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:15
|
|
|
MasterSlowPoke posted:At S5 they're wounding everything less than T10 on a 5+. They can actually scratch the paint on something other than a DE Raider, I'd call that an upgrade. They're also vastly less potent vs characters, MCs, and light vehicles in 8th because everything got more wounds and it didn't get more damage. It's twice as likely to wound T6 but T6 MCs are probably getting more than twice the number of wounds. At the low end of the scale, it lost effectiveness against T3 models that it no longer wounds on 2s. So yes, it gained the ability to harass bigger stuff and takes marines to 4+ armor if they're not in cover, but lost effectiveness against the things it used to be effective against Geoff Zahn posted:How is it better? A battle cannon is D3 damage, a Lascannon is D6. The battle cannon hits d6 times. TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah, looks like. Though Battlecannons are going to mostly be fired at BS 3, which drops their effectiveness to 1.17 wounds per shot. Compare it to BS3 lascannons, then.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
So curious about how Vindicators are going to be. They were always my favorite dumb tanks. Kept rolling bizarre scatter for them that would send the template somewhere else and actually do more damage an if it had hit. Like the time I was just trying to clear some tacticals and their drop pod, and instead the explosion landed on a land raider redeemer filled with Salamander termies, blew it up (this was back in 5th) and killed two of the passengers.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:16
|
|
|
Geoff Zahn posted:How is it better? A battle cannon is D3 damage, a Lascannon is D6. D6 shots versus 1 brings the average up.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
Hra Mormo posted:I'm on the fence if I can trust GW enough not to gently caress this up when it comes to multiwound stuff. In the simplest example a unit of terminators taking 3 battlecannon wounds could allocate 2 to one terminator then 1 to another, saving a third terminator from being wounded at all when suffering that wound would be a 66% chance to be killed outright. Meanwhile if you're allowed to only allocate a single pre-multiplication wound per model you'd quickly run into having to track the wounds of your terminators individually per model. If you multiply first then apply the resulting wound pools, a unit of 4 wound tyranids could take 3 wounds multiplying into 3, 3 and 1 respectively. Now you could stick 6 wounds on a 4 wound model and the other model only takes 1. The tyranids take 3 hits. 3 models are hit. 2 fail save, one doesn't. 3 damage is rolled. Two tyranids have 1 wound each. I would assume this is how it works, why would you have random damage and then be able to spread it? It says in the first weapon article that a lascannon can only really blow away a single dude even if it rolls 6 damage.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:18
|
|
|
edit: WHOOPS I read it wrong - "[a flamer] causes D6 hits that do not have to roll to hit, and this applies even against units of a single model" Fake James fucked around with this message at 17:22 on May 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:19
|
|
|
General Olloth posted:The tyranids take 3 hits. 3 models are hit. 2 fail save, one doesn't. 3 damage is rolled. Two tyranids have 1 wound each. I would assume that it's like AoS, and you have to apply wounds to wounded models first. The only way to game it would be if you have three hits, at 1, 2 and 3 damage. They're targeting a unit of 3W models. If your opponent applies them by 2, then 3, then 1, then they can end up only killing one model and putting one wound on the next. You probably have to apply them in decreasing or increasing order.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
chutche2 posted:Also, looks like battle cannons are better AT than lascannons despite what the article says about being worse than dedicated AT weapons. To be fair one of these is a man portable tank subweapon.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:24
|
|
|
With the leman russ being heavy d6 now, it's in a weird place vs the exterminator The exterminator would be a heavy 8 S7 autocannon, probably ap-1. If the autocannon is d3 wounds too, then it'd average 2 wounds vs the dread at BS3, vs the battle cannon averaging 1.55 wounds. If the autocannon is 1 damage, then there's very little reason to take it instead of the battle cannon unless you super want a high rate of fire gun. It's nice in 7th because of it being able to put multiple wounds downrange against some targets instead of just the 1 wound the battle cannon would do to stuff it can't ID. Artum posted:To be fair one of these is a man portable tank subweapon. "man portable" for space marines. In the army that has battle cannons, they're carried by vehicles as a primary weapon or carried by teams of men. If a lascannon isn't an anti-tank weapon that the article says are better than explosives, what is? Laser destroyer? chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:27
|
|
|
Holy crap, combi-weapons look awesome now.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:41
|
|
|
jadebullet posted:Holy crap, combi-weapons look awesome now.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:48
|
|
|
Oh please please let hive tyrants and Carnifexes throw out 24 shots. Also, battle cannons are pretty much exorcists against infantry now. They'll be okay against vehicles.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:50
|
|
|
I really like the idea of a combi-flamer always firing now. I'm building a little deathwatch unit for my Guard and the thought of one Marine carefully taking aimed shots while the attached flamer sprays a tiny blast of flame into the air is cracking me up. Bam! Pfft! Bam! Pfft! Maybe it will just light the bolt on fire. Glad to see my Leman Russ Sponsons are finally a thing again. They always look naked without them.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 05:45 |
|
|
raverrn posted:This happens all the time now though. Rough maths say that the odds went from just below 1 in 20 to something like 1 in 200 million.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2017 18:02
|
|