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MacheteZombie posted:I love the how we never see young Weyland. The old man makeup screams at the audience that a young version will crop up, instead he gets beat to death. Yeah, since the main thread running through everything is expectations being unmet it works perfectly regardless of the original intentions.
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May 10, 2017 19:15
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Lord Krangdar posted:Yeah, since the main thread running through everything is expectations being unmet it works perfectly regardless of the original intentions. It ends up working great, and as a huge Prometheus fan I wouldn't want it any other way, but there's no denying that it was a distraction to a lot of people when the movie was in theatres. It served as an easy go-to criticism for people who wanted to argue that Ridley had too many ideas and not enough restraint. The first month was all about the black goo, Pearce's old man makeup, and the Milburne/Fifield scenes, a lot of actual discussion of the film was lost in all that mess.
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May 10, 2017 19:26
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I'm secretly ok with Prometheus but I have to keep this on the downlow because a lot of my friends are huge alien 1 & 2 fans and I'm already on thin ice saying that Alien 3 "Assembly Cut" was loving awesome. They were going on a big rant re-treading all the really weak criticisms and "plot holes" of the movie and I pointed out they all actually made sense and I actually got them to agree their rage was baseless. -The crew were dregs, not the best of the best, they were never supposed to be the best of the best it's made clear they're garbage because boss didn't believe in the mission. No where in the movie is it said they're supposed to be the top of their fields. -Mappers get lost, I personally make maps for a living and have gotten turned around inside buildings I've helped design. If being chased or stressed you could easily get yourself turned around even while following a map. Also the crew are clearly lovely fuckups. -Dude trying to make friends with aggressive looking rapesnake was really dumb but we've established the crew are really dumb. -David put the black poo poo in the coffee because he's curious and he's not a human and doesn't think like a human and doesn't really give a poo poo about the mission. What's his motivation? Curiosity mixed with not having anything remotely close to human ethics. Trying to figure out what David's deal is is part of the movie. -The alien ship didn't roll in a perfectly straight line and is huge and Shaw survived mostly out of luck not because she was smart enough to run sideways. -Tons of stuff about the engineers aren't "plot holes" they're just answers we don't like. I actually got them to agree to all this. They still hate the movie, which is fine, but at least they've put these old chestnuts to bed.
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May 10, 2017 19:36
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Get better friends.
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May 10, 2017 19:47
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No, you can keep the same friends. But it's also okay to disagree with them, and if you can't, call them assholes and poison their drinks like David does.
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May 10, 2017 19:52
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Baronjutter posted:-David put the black poo poo in the coffee because he's curious and he's not a human and doesn't think like a human and doesn't really give a poo poo about the mission. What's his motivation? Curiosity mixed with not having anything remotely close to human ethics. Trying to figure out what David's deal is is part of the movie. It's even more clear cut than that. David is explicitly told by Weyland to "try harder", and the very next time we see him he's putting the goo into Holloway's drink. He's doing anything he can to discover some secret that may be able to save Weyland. For all David knows, the black goo will make Holloway immortal, and he can then take it straight to Weyland as a cure.
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May 10, 2017 19:52
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Baronjutter posted:-David put the black poo poo in the coffee because he's curious and he's not a human and doesn't think like a human and doesn't really give a poo poo about the mission. What's his motivation? Curiosity mixed with not having anything remotely close to human ethics. Trying to figure out what David's deal is is part of the movie. I mostly agree with the rest, but David all but outright says in that scene his motivation is disappointment with humanity as his creators and supposed masters. Basebf555 posted:It's even more clear cut than that. David is explicitly told by Weyland to "try harder", and the very next time we see him he's putting the goo into Holloway's drink. He's doing anything he can to discover some secret that may be able to save Weyland. For all David knows, the black goo will make Holloway immortal, and he can then take it straight to Weyland as a cure. I don't think he really gives a poo poo about Weyland.
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May 10, 2017 19:53
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Yeah that moment was the final endgame of people being so stupid about David, because it's made explicit throughout their earlier exploration of the place that David's intelligence and massive amount of research into how their language may work means he has a pretty decent idea of how stuff works, but no one thinks to be like "hey David what's all this say?" or anything because they never see him as more than a robo-butler. I mean his own "dad' doesn't see him as more than a failed attempt at making him immortal. I love that fake mission briefing early before they realize he's alive and with them. He literally presents himself as a god and presents his artificially created - one could say unborn - son to them.
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May 10, 2017 19:56
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Xenomrph posted:Get better friends. I have a couple friends who say Aliens is by far the best, 3 is unwatchably boring and 1 is "dated" and not as "fun" or "exciting" as Aliens. They also think Rogue 1 was the best starwars ever and Janeway was the best captain. I can not talk to them about science fiction. Luckily I at least have my wife for good movie opinions. She had never seen any alien movies (or other science fiction franchises like star trek) but ended up having the exact same good opinions. We watched Alien, Aliens (extended, sorry), and Alien 3 Assembly and she loved all 3 because they were 3 very different but very good movies. I told her people think 3 was super horrible and bad and she was shocked, said it was a perfect ending sad for the trilogy and other than some bad compositing here and there it was a fantastic movie. Then I told her that the theatrical version cut out the entire plot about trapping the alien and pretty much all character development of the prisoners and she understood why people would have hated that version. She also agreed that the extended Hadley's Hope colony scenes in the extended Aliens took away from the film. Also after never being exposed to trek and seeing them all she by far liked DS9 the best and refused to give voyager more than about 20 min of her time. Additional correct opinions.
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May 10, 2017 19:59
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Lord Krangdar posted:I don't think he really gives a poo poo about Weyland. I don't think that's clear at all. At the very least David's feelings about Weyland are as complicated as Shaw's feelings about a higher power. There's some resentment there, absolutely, but also a desire to please him.
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May 10, 2017 20:05
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Baronjutter posted:Rogue 1 was the best starwars ever and Janeway was the best captain. I can not talk to them about science fiction. I disagree with both of these vehemently but they're both totally valid takes compared to what they have to say about the Alien movies going by your description.  Janeway, I mean Voyager did this weird thing where they created a fantastic set of characters, but in having it on a starship again instead of a space station, instead of doing anything cool with that they very closely recycled episodes from TOS and Next Generation over and over again. Like the series has great characters but awful and uninteresting storytelling. Then they went to the opposite extreme with Enterprise which has a great premise and some cool stories/settings but with a consistently unlikable crew.
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May 10, 2017 20:06
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Voyager was basically a giant case of "great concept, terrible execution." Which is a shame because it was a great concept.
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May 10, 2017 20:06
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Even aside from the metanarrative fakeout, Weyland's old man makeup served to make him look freakish and unnatural in a way totally appropriate to someone who'd probably been using every life-extending drug, treatment, or surgery he could get his hands on in the years leading up to the movie. The first time I watched Prometheus it never even occurred to me that he might be revivified (it was obvious that no one was going to get what they wanted), I was just thinking "oh neat he looks like some kind of ghoulish mutant".
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May 10, 2017 20:38
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I assume he's also supposed to be somewhat older than the average old man would be today, because of whatever more advanced tech he's had access to. So he might be like 170 years old or something. Did that video with young Pearce have a date?
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May 10, 2017 20:42
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Baronjutter posted:I have a couple friends who say Aliens is by far the best, 3 is unwatchably boring and 1 is "dated" and not as "fun" or "exciting" as Aliens. They also think Rogue 1 was the best starwars ever and Janeway was the best captain. I can not talk to them about science fiction. She could also just be good at cold reading.
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May 10, 2017 20:43
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If we get into canon chat Weyland was born in 1990 and the mission takes place during December of 2093 (because it's a Christmas movie).Basebf555 posted:Did that video with young Pearce have a date? 2023
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May 10, 2017 20:53
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Basebf555 posted:I don't think that's clear at all. At the very least David's feelings about Weyland are as complicated as Shaw's feelings about a higher power. There's some resentment there, absolutely, but also a desire to please him. He's basically an abusive dad, so yeah. What you said.
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May 10, 2017 21:12
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Hodgepodge posted:He's basically an abusive dad, so yeah. What you said. It's all spelled out in David's face during the first briefing when Weyland's hologram basically shits all over him. It's the same face I make at family gatherings all the time.
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May 10, 2017 21:17
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David's relationship with Weyland is definitely complicated, not just love or hate or don't give a poo poo. I mean, just look at their last moments together. But that's the ironic part, david has a more complicated and human relationship to him than Vickers does.
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May 10, 2017 22:08
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Weyland was definitely the inspiration for David disregard for human life
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May 10, 2017 22:10
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David is able to understand the engineers because they regard humanity in the same exact way Weyland regards David. He sees clarity because everyone else, despite clearly not being the best in their field, thinks they're God's gift to their field of study even though they turn out to literally be God's failures. It's awesome.
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May 10, 2017 22:35
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It seems like what's her name saving his life and being kind to him didn't put her in his good books. I wonder if he was "raised" by better people if he'd have turned out better, or if his ethical shortcomings are a problem with his design.
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May 10, 2017 23:03
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Basebf555 posted:It's all spelled out in David's face during the first briefing when Weyland's hologram basically shits all over him. It's the same face I make at family gatherings all the time. Yeah, I shouldn't have said he doesn't give a poo poo about Weyland. I just don't think Weyland's safety or orders are his primary agenda.
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May 10, 2017 23:25
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Baronjutter posted:It seems like what's her name saving his life and being kind to him didn't put her in his good books. I wonder if he was "raised" by better people if he'd have turned out better, or if his ethical shortcomings are a problem with his design. Well David 2.0 (Walter) seems to imply there were some design flaws.
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May 10, 2017 23:30
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Baronjutter posted:It seems like what's her name saving his life and being kind to him didn't put her in his good books. I wonder if he was "raised" by better people if he'd have turned out better, or if his ethical shortcomings are a problem with his design. Given the nature of the film, I'd say his ethical shortcomings are a problem with humanity, I mean he's exactly like us.
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May 10, 2017 23:37
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it's almost like david's unknowable mind is the real alien
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May 10, 2017 23:37
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A ton of new life is created because he steals the secret of the black goo from the gods, sort of like a modern, Prometheus.
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May 10, 2017 23:40
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Sorry David, Iris Elbas character is the best character in prometheus
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May 10, 2017 23:57
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Baronjutter posted:I wonder if he was "raised" by better people if he'd have turned out better, or if his ethical shortcomings are a problem with his design. alf_pogs posted:it's almost like david's unknowable mind is the real alien Neo Rasa posted:A ton of new life is created because he steals the secret of the black goo from the gods, sort of like a modern, Prometheus. Close the thread, this is about as good as it's gonna get.
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May 11, 2017 00:10
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:Close the thread, this is about as good as it's gonna get. no let's sit tight, the hot takes for Alien Covenant are gonna start rolling in soon and i can't wait
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May 11, 2017 00:13
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Scott could be 100 making his 10th Alien film, Alien: The Aliening and we'd still be talking about prometheus
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May 11, 2017 00:15
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Baronjutter posted:It seems like what's her name saving his life and being kind to him didn't put her in his good books. I wonder if he was "raised" by better people if he'd have turned out better, or if his ethical shortcomings are a problem with his design. It did put her in his good books, very much so. He just, uh, has a hosed up way of expressing it.
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May 11, 2017 00:50
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Well, the new film is a lot better than Prometheus at least.
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May 11, 2017 05:01
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Octy posted:Well, the new film is a lot better than Prometheus at least.
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May 11, 2017 05:24
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I think Prometheus fans will all like it. Everyone else will like it more than they did Prometheus. (I'm a Prometheus fan)
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May 11, 2017 05:41
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Martman posted:I dunno if this statement is a good or bad sign for someone who loves Prometheus. Oh well I'm still super excited about it. I only watched Prometheus a couple times and my feelings towards it are pretty neutral. But no, Covenant was good. Satisfyingly gory. Plenty of Xenomorph action. Most of the characters (well, except *that* guy. You'll know who I mean when you see it) aren't complete idiots. All in all, I don't feel cheated of the two hours I spent watching it.
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May 11, 2017 05:45
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i dont know why but bolding Prometheus is definitely something i am enjoying
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May 11, 2017 05:52
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Octy posted:I only watched Prometheus a couple times and my feelings towards it are pretty neutral. But no, Covenant was good. Satisfyingly gory. Plenty of Xenomorph action. Most of the characters (well, except *that* guy. You'll know who I mean when you see it) aren't complete idiots. All in all, I don't feel cheated of the two hours I spent watching it. Biggest idiot in the franchise, that guy. People will probably be more accepting of it than they were with the Prometheus scientists, since this guy is depicted as an moron from the word go.
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May 11, 2017 06:00
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I'm guessing it's Billy Crudup.
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May 11, 2017 06:59
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Bugblatter posted:Biggest idiot in the franchise, that guy. People will probably be more accepting of it than they were with the Prometheus scientists, since this guy is depicted as an moron from the word go. Fixed
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May 11, 2017 07:23
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