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Virulence posted:The only metrics that matter in this game and are worth measuring are "Did you wipe?" and "How fast did you kill the thing?" It helps if you can quantify why you wiped.
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May 11, 2017 13:03
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I would never make it as a mentor because last night I tried to convince a level 52 white mage to use Cleric Stance and do some dps and they refused and continued to Cure 1 on a 99%HP tank every GCD
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May 11, 2017 13:10
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jyrque posted:It helps if you can quantify why you wiped. This can only be assessed on an encounter by encounter basis in savage raid content due to the variation between encounters. In casual baby content, you wipe 99% of the time because people are not pushing buttons. The boss dies slower than it needs to and groups have to do an extra 3-5 minutes of mechanics before they win.
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May 11, 2017 13:26
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Waldorf Sixpence posted:I would never make it as a mentor because last night I tried to convince a level 52 white mage to use Cleric Stance and do some dps and they refused and continued to Cure 1 on a 99%HP tank every GCD If a level 52+ WHM isn't spending 90% of the dungeon with <10% mp from chain-casting holy at every possible opportunity, they should be auto-kicked imo.
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May 11, 2017 13:39
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Metrics help in casual baby mode too tbh. Having it available isn't away from anyone.
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May 11, 2017 13:40
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jyrque posted:It helps if you can quantify why you wiped. You mean like the SMN with the i150 weapon in DS that correctly identifies that DPS is a tad low, but he is clearly not contributing to this problem?
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May 11, 2017 13:45
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Maguoob posted:You mean like the SMN with the i150 weapon in DS that correctly identifies that DPS is a tad low, but he is clearly not contributing to this problem? Bet you he forgot to repair and that's all he had available.
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May 11, 2017 13:48
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The thing I most wished for as I was going through the game as a WHM 1-60 was some indicator of which fight-specific maluses can be Esuna'd and which can't. There's a lot of stuff you'd like to be able to Esuna but can't, which is fine, except there are also Esuna checks where you have to peel the malus off or somebody dies. If there was some piece of training or help entry or something that tells you which is which I missed it. Separately I wouldn't be sad if the gap between your healing and damage throughput in or out of Cleric Stance was narrowed a bit or if we got more heals that worked while in Cleric Stance. Or failing that they could go all-in on Cleric Stance and give us more spells like Assize that are worth casting but for different reasons whether you're in Cleric Stance or not.
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May 11, 2017 14:06
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m.hache posted:Bet you he forgot to repair and that's all he had available. Or he's someone that just doesn't know that weapon damage matters.
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May 11, 2017 14:09
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Maguoob posted:You mean like the SMN with the i150 weapon in DS that correctly identifies that DPS is a tad low, but he is clearly not contributing to this problem? Exactly yes??
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May 11, 2017 14:15
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m.hache posted:Bet you he forgot to repair and that's all he had available. Actually to me it looks like he used to main BLM and wants to see what all the fuss with SMN is about but OOPS 24 mans don't drop weapons oh no!
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May 11, 2017 14:29
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Barely knowing how the proving grounds work in WoW, I wouldn't mind seeing something similar. A trial that is only beatable with a semi-decent dps rotation, or dpsing as a healer, or stance-dancing as a tank. You don't need proving grounds. You need a REAL damage meter so that 600 dps blm can see he's doing 600 dps while the tank is double his dps and everyone else is triple his dps. Then he will possibly think "hmm maybe i should figure out how to play my class". Sorry for opening the can of worms but I think it would help more then hurt.
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May 11, 2017 14:57
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Mr. Nice! posted:Or he's someone that just doesn't know that weapon damage matters. someone i knew was massively underprioritizing their weapon as a blm because "i thought it was like wow where they were just stat sticks", which is a fair enough assumption
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May 11, 2017 14:58
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Dig the SMN AF2 chest also, nice.
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May 11, 2017 14:58
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Make the crown not obtainable until you run X amount of mentor roulettes and have X amount of comms from running said mentor roulette's. That should weed out all the idiots who just want it to look cool and actually give it to people who are helpful.
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May 11, 2017 15:04
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Office Surprise Store posted:someone i knew was massively underprioritizing their weapon as a blm because "i thought it was like wow where they were just stat sticks", which is a fair enough assumption Yeah, it's pretty easy to think that a weapon doesn't contribute that much to magic classes, it's not well explained and I see a lot of people putting weapons at a low priority for that reason. I've had to tell a few people and they always seem surprised.
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May 11, 2017 15:06
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Weapon min ilvl should also be a thing on df queues, in my opinion.
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May 11, 2017 15:40
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Weapon min ilvl should also be a thing on df queues, in my opinion. Yeah, something. I'd like to see some adjustments to how ilvl is weighted in general so people are less inclined to just stack whatever highest ilvl accessories they can get their hands on to pass requirements.
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May 11, 2017 15:56
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At leadt Stormblood giving you a full set of gear at 70 means you probably won't get hit by the thing where you had to wear vendor gear with worse stats than your current gear to get into the final dungeon.
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May 11, 2017 16:07
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Weapon min ilvl should also be a thing on df queues, in my opinion. Virulence posted:Yeah, something. I'd like to see some adjustments to how ilvl is weighted in general so people are less inclined to just stack whatever highest ilvl accessories they can get their hands on to pass requirements. I said long ago that Average Main Stat should be the metric, so that weapon, body, and legs carry more weight than rightside. But Weapon Damage additionally needs to be a bar to pass for sure. This would make High Quality crafted gear carry a slightly greater weight over NQ as well, which is perfectly fine considering the leap in numbers, especially on weapons. Item level on it's own is just an awful metric considering how easy it is to manipulate, and all equipment slots not carrying the same importance, causing it's use as a gauge of strength to cover a nearly infinite gap in player power. Skaw fucked around with this message at 16:18 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 16:12
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How do I select the realm I want to join?
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May 11, 2017 17:00
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PRADA SLUT posted:How do I select the realm I want to join? I think you're prompted after you finish character creation.
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May 11, 2017 17:12
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Skaw posted:I said long ago that Average Main Stat should be the metric, so that weapon, body, and legs carry more weight than rightside. But Weapon Damage additionally needs to be a bar to pass for sure. This would make High Quality crafted gear carry a slightly greater weight over NQ as well, which is perfectly fine considering the leap in numbers, especially on weapons. That's a decent compromise as well. I doubt you'd have the proper ilvl or weapon level without having a sufficient main stat.
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May 11, 2017 17:53
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Attorney at Funk posted:The thing I most wished for as I was going through the game as a WHM 1-60 was some indicator of which fight-specific maluses can be Esuna'd and which can't. There's a lot of stuff you'd like to be able to Esuna but can't, which is fine, except there are also Esuna checks where you have to peel the malus off or somebody dies. If there was some piece of training or help entry or something that tells you which is which I missed it. They need to literally give cleansable status effects a differently-shaped or colored icon border. Similarly, they need to change the graphics for enemy cast bars to make it clear which abilities can be stunned or silenced. Like universally interruptable abilities get the regular yellow cast bar but ones that can only be silenced are purple with little sound wave graphics and totally unstoppable abilities have cast bars that look like they're made of stone or steel.
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May 11, 2017 18:00
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Ferrinus posted:They need to literally give cleansable status effects a differently-shaped or colored icon border. Yeah, this would be a huge QoL improvement. The inability to know at a glance what can/can't be clensed/stunned/silenced/etc is a big problem in terms of learning. You get a feel for it from practice even it's inconsistent (certain variations on status effects clenseable/unclensable like Doom/Poison) but more communication is always better.
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May 11, 2017 18:03
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, this would be a huge QoL improvement. The inability to know at a glance what can/can't be clensed/stunned/silenced/etc is a big problem in terms of learning. You get a feel for it from practice even it's inconsistent (certain variations on status effects clenseable/unclensable like Doom/Poison) but more communication is always better. Also the only way to know whether something is magical/physical/darkness damage is to pop a defensive cooldown and see if it helps, because this information isn't made available anywhere in the UI.
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May 11, 2017 18:15
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It's me. I'm the one who would do mentor roulette if I only got Ex Trials. Especially if they gave the reward for effort (like sticking around for 30 minutes even if it's a non-clear). All I get is Totorak when I do mentor. It's like levelling roulette but a worse reward and I can't do it on a job I'm levelling. A lot of people doing dungeons aren't really that interested in playing that well so even when I try to help, the chance of getting a positive response is low. It's not even uncommon to see no new players or returning players. At least when I get dropped into an Ex Trial (if it's fresh), there's a decent chance I can get people that are willing to learn. It feels like I'm actually being a mentor. I mean, the rewards of mentor roulette are so absolutely worthless that I really only want to do it when I'm in the mood to help a noobie out, anyway. So getting dungeons where no one really wants help anyway is just a wash. Also I'd love medals. The com system kind of fails because I often feel like the worse the randos I get, the lower my chance of getting a com anyway. Like, if they can't figure out how to do their own DPS rotation, they probably can't figure out who is doing the most damage, or the value of a healer or tank doing great damage for their roles. It doesn't really bother me at the end of the day because I don't need coms anyway, but I have to believe a smarter system that rewards people for playing well with little glamour items would have the potential to bring out positive results in the player base. There was a time when I thought DPS metres was the best answer for this, but I've come to the realisation that a lot of people go into DPS because they have some sort of idea in their head that it's less responsibility. I don't think shaming that kind of player is going to be a positive for them. There are also a lot of healers about or even tanks who think "damage isn't my responsibility" so it'd really only target a certain subset of players. But medals and some kind of play of the day or something would be pretty neat. People respond well to positive rewards. Even stupid ones.
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May 11, 2017 18:34
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 Can we finally get custom sits for those dang beach chairs?!
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May 11, 2017 18:38
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Ferrinus posted:They need to literally give cleansable status effects a differently-shaped or colored icon border. Man, both of those ideas would be absolutely fantastic. I would love to know what I can stun and what I can't, because I would feel like a total champ locking a boss down like that.
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May 11, 2017 18:45
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Holyshoot posted:You don't need proving grounds. You need a REAL damage meter so that 600 dps blm can see he's doing 600 dps while the tank is double his dps and everyone else is triple his dps. Then he will possibly think "hmm maybe i should figure out how to play my class". Sorry for opening the can of worms but I think it would help more then hurt. Nah cuz then it'd make those people feel bad and apparently their feelings are more important than the people forced to carry them through everything.
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May 11, 2017 18:50
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Nah cuz then it'd make those people feel bad and apparently their feelings are more important than the people forced to carry them through everything. The game is designed around people carrying people through everything but the very very very cutting-edge content. I'd rather they not introduce more room for people being toxic for very little gain. I can't see any way a DPS meter would actually benefit players who don't understand mechanics but see tons of ways it will lead to both bad and good players looking for people to blame for problems. More comprehensive tutorials more clear UI and information, better details on how mechanics work and so-on would do more to help players than a number that doesn't actually clarify anything but "number not good enough"
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May 11, 2017 18:58
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Reinstalling this on my PS4. Is it worth getting back into after a year and a half? Never got to max level with my dragoon.
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May 11, 2017 19:02
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ImpAtom posted:The game is designed around people carrying people through everything but the very very very cutting-edge content. I'd rather they not introduce more room for people being toxic for very little gain. There are players that aren't idiots, but simply ignorant (because FF14 also lacks a centralized location to find out how to play their class, like Icy-Veins for WoW) and do not know that they're doing so poorly because they have no feedback on how well they're doing compared to the rest of the party. Being able to baseline see how much damage they're doing would actually help a lot of these people out. DPS meters have existed since basically WoW's inception and no one gives a poo poo (or even says anything for the most part) in dungeons if someones DPS is low as long as it isn't like by a cartoonish margin. People who are scared of being called out for not playing their class right have invented this elaborate narrative that it would destroy FF14s community or whatever but it's simply not true. People should be encouraged to get better, even in non cutting edge content. I don't care if the BLM is doing like 400 less DPS than optimal in my EXDR, but I do care if they're struggling to pull 600dps total. Obsfucating how well theyre doing does nothing but allow these people to pretend nothing is wrong and not ever attempt self improvement, even if a bunch of people (idiots like honest healers and 'ice mages') would never change, I can guarantee you a non insignificant number would see how poor they're doing and at least attempt to get better.
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May 11, 2017 19:08
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I recently got to 50 with my WAR. I'm sure the rotation changes at 60, but what's the general idea? Hit up Maim > Storms to get the buff/debuff then butchers block rotation to hold aggro? I know everyone jokes about fracture, but at 30s it seems useful and doable to keep up. How do ppl know when to drop defiance in favor of damage, just by feel? Coming from WHM where there is no rotation, it's weird.
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May 11, 2017 19:10
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Ibram Gaunt posted:DPS meters have existed since basically WoW's inception and no one gives a poo poo (or even says anything for the most part) in dungeons if someones DPS is low as long as it isn't like by a cartoonish margin. Every single post in this thread about DPS meters is wanting to yell at people for not DPSing well enough. There is no reason for me to believe an online community isn't going to be assholes about it. I've played enough online games that I don't believe in the slightest that FFXIV has the one community that isn't going to become massively toxic with easy to blame numbers. I absolutely think the game should do more to teach players their mechanics and things like the training room where you'e graded on your DPS are okay (not great) starts, but how does publicly displayed DPS help them more than give toxic excuses? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 19:10
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Chakan posted:I recently got to 50 with my WAR. I'm sure the rotation changes at 60, but what's the general idea? Hit up Maim > Storms to get the buff/debuff then butchers block rotation to hold aggro? I know everyone jokes about fracture, but at 30s it seems useful and doable to keep up. How do ppl know when to drop defiance in favor of damage, just by feel? Coming from WHM where there is no rotation, it's weird. That's basically it at 50. Just gotta throw your ogcds in when you can. Above 50 you gain an offensive stance and some amazing offensive abilities, so by 60 you're stance dancing and mostly using a similar offensive rotation. You could never use fracture and it wouldn't matter. The times its an actual benefit are rare and slight.
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May 11, 2017 19:14
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ImpAtom posted:Every single post in this thread about DPS meters is wanting to yell at people for not DPSing well enough. There is no reason for me to believe an online community isn't going to be assholes about it. I've played enough online games that I don't believe in the slightest that FFXIV has the one community that isn't going to become massively toxic with easy to blame numbers. Why bother responding if you're not actually reading their post? That seems kind of toxic IMO.
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May 11, 2017 19:14
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ImpAtom posted:The game is designed around people carrying people through everything but the very very very cutting-edge content. I'd rather they not introduce more room for people being toxic for very little gain. I think you're right but I also think there is essentially no realistic downside to giving people personal parsers that show only their dps, a basic assessment of it (good/bad/exceptional) and a "what killed you" window for when you die. Ibram Gaunt WoW's community is a loving dumpsterfire and while parsers might not be to blame for that I have seen enough people be real lovely over recount to not be willing to risk it. Further, WoW's playerbase was just as dogshit at the game as this one back when I played so I mean you aren't really gaining anything either.
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May 11, 2017 19:14
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Failboattootoot posted:I think you're right but I also think there is essentially no realistic downside to giving people personal parsers that show only their dps, a basic assessment of it (good/bad/exceptional) and a "what killed you" window for when you die. I absolutely don't think there's anything wrong with personal DPS parsers at all, yeah. That's information that can and should be available.
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May 11, 2017 19:16
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ImpAtom posted:I absolutely don't think there's anything wrong with personal DPS parsers at all, yeah. That's information that can and should be available. The problem with this is that people will just demand people share their personal DPS after wipes and enough people will be running ACT to know if you're lying and probably kick them for it (which is the 100% right thing to do, if you're going to play lovely and lie about it, you deserve to get benched) Failboattootoot posted:I think you're right but I also think there is essentially no realistic downside to giving people personal parsers that show only their dps, a basic assessment of it (good/bad/exceptional) and a "what killed you" window for when you die. Oh, I'd never argue that WoW's community isn't terrible, but it's terrible for a myriad of other reasons that aren't really connected to Recount.
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May 11, 2017 19:23
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