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TheKingofSprings posted:So Souma wins, because the loving stage they're in isn't heated during the winter making his hot food preferable to Nene's cold Trust me, I've seen stupider reasons for a victory in other cooking manga /stares at Addicted to Curry with the spoons vs chopsticks
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May 11, 2017 01:59
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TheKingofSprings posted:So Souma wins, because the loving stage they're in isn't heated during the winter making his hot food preferable to Nene's cold Link?
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May 11, 2017 01:59
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Dexo posted:Link? http://www.manganetabarespoiler.com/manga-spoiler/shokugeki-no-soma-214-spoiler
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May 11, 2017 02:16
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But... Come on. We could just not have that and things would have been better for it.
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May 11, 2017 02:36
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I think this makes a lot of sense for the win.
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May 11, 2017 04:12
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Yeah, I can see it. I live in a place famous for Soba and while we're not quite as far north as Hokkaido, it gets pretty loving cold here and no matter how good the soba is I wouldn't want to be eating it in the cold. That said if the building isn't heated at all then that's just absurd conditions for cooking/competing/eating/existing in Hokkaido anyway, so that's dumb on its own.
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May 11, 2017 05:32
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On the one hand, the telegraph for this could be seen a mile away. On the other hand, I have thought the telegraphs for EVERY shokugeki so far could be seen a mile away, and every time I've been wrong. So I've got like, "trying to figure out the plot PTSD" and didn't even bother this time around, only to be shown that yeah, that was it. On the gripping hand, I'm not sure if I like it better, or am more disappointed.
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May 11, 2017 06:11
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:Yeah, I can see it. I live in a place famous for Soba and while we're not quite as far north as Hokkaido, it gets pretty loving cold here and no matter how good the soba is I wouldn't want to be eating it in the cold. That said if the building isn't heated at all then that's just absurd conditions for cooking/competing/eating/existing in Hokkaido anyway, so that's dumb on its own. It probably is heated. Just not nearly as much as it should be. Which is probably why this was overlooked.
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May 11, 2017 07:20
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it would be cool if, when discussing the hard spoilers before the chapter release, there was a big 'these are the spoilers before the chapter release' and then literally everything concerning the pre-release spoilers was in tags
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May 11, 2017 07:55
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i like how somas dad dies at the end of this arc whoops spoilers guess you guys havent read that far ahead, id post a link but nah
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May 11, 2017 09:21
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I can't believe Megumi just fuckin' decapitated Erina like that. Weird tone shift for the comic.
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May 11, 2017 17:15
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whoa, it's crazy that alice is real, and that we're getting married.
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May 11, 2017 18:27
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paragon1 posted:I can't believe Megumi just fuckin' decapitated Erina like that. Weird tone shift for the comic. Popularity Polls have consequences.
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May 11, 2017 19:14
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OH MY GOD IT WAS A FAKE OUT THEY'RE IN A SHADOW ALLIANCE TO DESTROY RINDOU.
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May 11, 2017 19:23
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[spoiler] Isshiki was Eizen the whole time.[/spioler]
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May 11, 2017 19:24
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paragon1 posted:[spoiler] Isshiki was Eizen the whole time.[/spioler] well if you understood the merest basics of the art of foreshadowing you could hardly call that a spoiler, mfu fu fu
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May 11, 2017 20:30
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Chill out guys. Here. http://readms.net/r/shokugeki_no_souma/214/4242/1 Air conditioned areas do tend to be on the chilly side of things, in my experience. And dry, too. And in page 12 it mentions this issue was present in the storage room, too. In the end this is a basic "Stuck into a rigid structure and forgot to account for the context (location)" resolution, which has been a theme in this manga since forever. Kyte fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 20:37
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More like Nene turned out to be comically incompetent at cooking battles. Elite 10 getting jobbed out, basically.
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May 11, 2017 20:39
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Angry Grimace posted:More like Nene turned out to be comically incompetent at cooking battles. Elite 10 getting jobbed out, basically.
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May 11, 2017 20:43
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Kyte posted:Is that really surprising? For them to realize the subtler imperfections in their method they'd have to be on constant battles with people of similar skill level and that never happened. Since, you know, they were right at the top from the beginning. She lost because she didn't check her ingredient quality whereas Soma did. It makes her sound completely incompetent.
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May 11, 2017 20:45
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Angry Grimace posted:She lost because she didn't check her ingredient quality whereas Soma did. she lost because she stuck to the recipe there wasn't really a quality issue.
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May 11, 2017 20:54
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Elfgames posted:she lost because she stuck to the recipe there wasn't really a quality issue. Yes there was. Soma didn't actually have any kind of inside baseball with regards to the scientific explanation given by Alice and Hayama. He just noticed the ingredient didn't seem as good as normal so he changed it. She apparently didn't notice the quality problem. If they had wanted to sell that it was Central's dogma, they could have done that, but they didn't. They could have had her notice but either declare the first-flour to be the best flour for soba regardless of the evidence that there was a problem, or they could have made her simply assume that Soma would also use the first-flour because its the best and not account for changing it. Just inserting that "it's about Central's philosophy" is mostly just a hand-wave without textual evidence. We don't actually know whether she's a dogmatic follower of traditional soba under that specific circumstance because she didn't even notice the quality problem with her chosen flour. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:15
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Angry Grimace posted:She lost because she didn't check her ingredient quality whereas Soma did. in her defense the factor that decided it was CRAZY minor minutiae, it makes a lot of sense for someone who's always working with top-end stuff and the Most Elite Flour to not think about it when you know that you are absolutely capable of turning out top percentile product there was no reason for her to do that kind of quality check since she had no reason to have anything less than absolute trust in the organization. meanwhile soma's real-rear end service experience means he'd check on that stuff as a matter of course and not expect actual consistency in his ingredients narratively this outcome isn't interesting but it isn't stupid and bad, it's just boilerplate. soma's big advantage is always, always, always going to be that at the end of the day he's serving people (judges) and has been serving people since he was a tiny child
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May 11, 2017 21:16
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The room temperature is just something that never would have crossed her mind. Cause she always does the steps perfectly, so she has no need to taste her dish and would not realize the quality was lessened by that detail.
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May 11, 2017 21:17
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Angry Grimace posted:She lost because she didn't check her ingredient quality whereas Soma did. wait what. It had nothing to do with the ingredient quality. The reason she lost was essentially the microcosm of the theme of this arc. Like the entire theme of this arc has been about destroying Central's ideology of "Experimentation and improvisation = bad" Angry Grimace posted:Just inserting that "it's about Central's philosophy" is mostly just a hand-wave without textual evidence. We don't actually know whether she's a dogmatic follower of traditional soba under that circumstance because she didn't even notice the quality problem with her chosen flour. It's literally stated throughout her flashbacks that she was raised in a traditional soba family with long history of making traditional rear end soba. Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:18
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Dexo posted:wait what. It had nothing to do with the ingredient quality. The reason she lost was essentially the microcosm of the theme of this arc. You're just inserting things that aren't actually there. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. He noticed the quality seemed lower than it normally did, so he changed it. She didn't. She was on the E10 before Central came around and there's very little to establish that she had some specific allegiance to Central's core philosophies beyond voting for him (and Rindou did also so its not like that means anything) It makes no sense she wouldn't notice that the flour was off without giving a further explanation - e.g. she noticed it but did it anyways. It could be interpreted the way you are suggesting if they had added something that wasn't simply that she forgot to check whether the flour was still good. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:24 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:21
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The flour was still good. It was just somewhat less aromatic. Which wouldn't matter in 99% of cases especially if you can turn out top quality anyways.
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May 11, 2017 21:29
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Angry Grimace posted:You're just inserting things that aren't actually there. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. He noticed the quality seemed lower than it normally did, so he changed it. She didn't. Patware posted:there was no reason for her to do that kind of quality check since she had no reason to have anything less than absolute trust in the organization. meanwhile soma's real-rear end service experience means he'd check on that stuff as a matter of course and not have learned to expect actual consistency in his ingredients
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May 11, 2017 21:30
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Angry Grimace posted:You're just inserting things that aren't actually there. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. He noticed the quality seemed lower than it normally did, so he changed it. She didn't. The Flour was good. There was literally nothing wrong with the flour. The difference was smell. It wasn't like her dish was terrible. It just lacked the same sobaness(for lack of a better word) Literally stated the reason she lost was because she focused too much on just what her traditional style was without thinking about everything that goes into serving food to someone including the environment. There was nothing wrong with her food. It just didn't match the environment perfectly like Souma's did.  The First flour didn't have a flaw in it. It was just the wrong weapon for the job. Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:35 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:32
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That's my problem with it though: not checking the ingredients makes her sound careless rather than simply dogmatic. We don't know what she would have done had she noticed the ingredient problem and I don't think it made sense for her to actively not see the problem vs. noticing but ignoring it. Kinokuni literally states she isn't detail-oriented enough to notice that kind of thing, but that was always kind of the stated point of the Elite 10 (which she was on before Central appeared) - they're super into the details that make their food great rather than just Mimasaka-level imitations. You can argue that its a rookie mistake that people make, but this is scripted - its dumb for an ultra elite level chef to forget to smell the main ingredient in her dish. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:40
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The art was good this chapter at least, same as always
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May 11, 2017 21:46
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Angry Grimace posted:You're just inserting things that aren't actually there. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. He noticed the quality seemed lower than it normally did, so he changed it. She didn't. The quality of the flour was top notch. What Soma noticed was that the aroma wasn't quite as strong as it normally is, so he figured out a way to boost the smell. Which is something he focused on intently since the Autumn Festival. It's pretty clear that the difference in aroma level is slight, but that Soma's efforts to amplify the aroma were further magnified by that slight deviation from normal. The reason he won wasn't that Nene sucks, it's that she's not imaginative. She has roboticaly perfected her craft and does not experiment. So she went into the ingredient room, noticed that her ingredients were fine, and created perfect soba. It's textbook Central vs Rebels, following the technique and recipe perfectly is inferior to winging it until you understand the dish and are able to tweak it as needed. Edit: To emphasize, there was nothing wrong with the ingredient. It looked, felt, tasted, and smelled exactly as it should. The flaw was that she did not think about what the smell would be outside a pile of flour, Soma however realized that the environment would slightly change the finished product. Gyges fucked around with this message at 21:53 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:49
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Yeah this seemed perfectly in keeping with the theme of this arc. Nene just made soba the same way she always does because she spent her whole life learning to make soba in one perfect way. Soma adapted to the circumstances perfectly, and won. Nene didn't make any mistakes. She just did the thing she'd always been taught to do with no critical thinking. Almost like the philosophy of a certain comically evil chairman....
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May 11, 2017 21:56
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Gyges posted:The quality of the flour was top notch. What Soma noticed was that the aroma wasn't quite as strong as it normally is, so he figured out a way to boost the smell. Which is something he focused on intently since the Autumn Festival. It's pretty clear that the difference in aroma level is slight, but that Soma's efforts to amplify the aroma were further magnified by that slight deviation from normal. The problem is that this explanation is mostly a rationalization vs. anything that actually got explained. Nene straight up admits failed to notice a specific detail that led to her downfall. It's just lame in my opinion that an E10 member loses because they're careless. I think it would have made more sense in the manner you're suggesting if she had actually noticed and decided to use the first-flour anyways because its flatly superior or because she assumed Soma knew it was better and she would be competing with Soma's attempt at the same dish. Isshiki's speech kind of gets there, but then Nene admits she just didn't even know the flour was less potent than usual.
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May 11, 2017 21:56
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Angry Grimace posted:You're just inserting things that aren't actually there. It's not like Soma had some kind of specific understanding that a low ambient temperature would change the volatility of specific compounds in buckwheat flour. He noticed the quality seemed lower than it normally did, so he changed it. She didn't. Kinokuni didn't notice how the weather was throwing off the flavor because she was locked into the thought that "First Flour=Best Flour. All day, everyday". The implications appear to be that Kinokuni just went into the pantry, grabbed what she needed for the Sakura shrimp soba, and went to cooking. She knew that is the best soba dish she can make, and was so locked into that recipe she didn't pause and notice the effects the weather had on the flour. Souma, on the other hand, didn't have a recipe set in stone when soba was announced as their dish, so he was a little slower in the pantry and able to notice the chill had weakened the soba.
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May 11, 2017 21:59
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Begemot posted:Yeah this seemed perfectly in keeping with the theme of this arc. Nene just made soba the same way she always does because she spent her whole life learning to make soba in one perfect way. Soma adapted to the circumstances perfectly, and won. woah woah but the author didn't explicitly put "OH MY GOD THE REASON SHE LOST IS THE EXACT SAME AS THE ENTIRE THEME OF THE ARC" so we are pretty obviously seeing subtext where there is none. Gonna need everything spelled out explicitly so I don't have to critically think about basic story structure
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May 11, 2017 21:59
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Kuroyama posted:Kinokuni didn't notice how the weather was throwing off the flavor because she was locked into the thought that "First Flour=Best Flour. All day, everyday". The implications appear to be that Kinokuni just went into the pantry, grabbed what she needed for the Sakura shrimp soba, and went to cooking. She knew that is the best soba dish she can make, and was so locked into that recipe she didn't pause and notice the effects the weather had on the flour. Nene specifically says she didn't notice the minute details and questions how Soma did. Her rant at the end has nothing to do with recipe design, and more is a tacit admission that she hosed up by failing to notice a specific detail. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:06 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 21:59
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Angry is right, Soma had no special knowledge of the environmental conditions and didn't think about that at all. All he did was notice that the flour's smell seemed weak so he used the stronger flour and other tricks to strengthen it. Nene failed to notice this and didn't even consider using another flour. The second half of that is fine for what the story is trying to tell, but the first half makes her seem bad at her job.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 11, 2017 |
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May 11, 2017 22:02
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alright, try this on for size nene doesn't operate under the basis of aroma. she has no real need to consider it in her speciality. soma, as a shounen protagonist, is mega man bustering traits from chefs he's encountered. that's another detail we get - when someone clowns him his immediate reaction is to grind his skull against them, see the soma/ryou/hayama trinity through getting owned by hayama and then training exhaustively to beat him in the second match (even if y'all hated that arc) soma had learned to deeply factor the sense of smell into cooking. nene is a mechanically perfect traditional chef who follows perfected recipes - her soba was still absolute top percentile stuff and soma just barely edged out the win because of his experience cooking against people again and again because that's his philosophy and he's in there in the trenches all the time
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May 11, 2017 22:05
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Clarste posted:Angry is right, Soma had no special knowledge of the environmental conditions and didn't think about that at all. All he did was notice that the flour's smell seemed weak so he used the stronger flour. Nene failed to notice this and didn't even consider using another flour. The second half of that is fine for what the story is trying to tell, but the first half makes her seem bad at her job. Her thinking was literally that "First flour Soba is the ultimate Soba". She didn't take the situation surrounding her food into account. Souma as someone who only serves people in a restaurant to survive had to think only of the customer and the eating environment. So he's more liable to notice something like that. There was no problem with the actual ingredient. It was the environment. Souma noticed it subconsciously via smell. But she didn't. Which is a mistake sure, but it's not some grave incompetence that no cook should ever make.
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May 11, 2017 22:10
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