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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I've actually tested 4000+ Reds and the only fires I've seen in my lab were caused by bad molex->SATA adapters and happen with any drive. And how many Amazon reviews did you leave? Probably zero. Look at you not helping give Reds and accurate profile on Amazon. 
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May 11, 2017 21:45
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DrDork posted:And how many Amazon reviews did you leave? Probably zero. Maybe he didn't buy the drives from Amazon. And maybe that matters. 
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May 11, 2017 22:11
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Last I checked it was NewEgg that had the reputation for lovely packaging. Or maybe that's just what they want us to think....
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May 11, 2017 22:47
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It's the drive cartels, artificially increasing prices through FUD!!
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May 11, 2017 23:04
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As always, here's the recommendation for buying HDDs: 1. Buy whatever drive(s) fits your performance/price needs. 2. Run an extensive test on the drives before putting them into production (e.g. badblocks). 3. Have backups, regardless of level of redundancy, if the data is important.
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May 12, 2017 01:09
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4. Stage a fire extinguisher next to your NAS.
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May 12, 2017 02:03
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Combat Pretzel posted:Latest experiments with FreeNAS, primarily intended to fiddle with iSCSI, showed me how much of an impact ZFS fragmentation has. Data I've copied from a backup onto this array while fresh (four disk quasi-RAID-10, all WD Reds) reads at like 250MB/s, whereas data I've downloaded onto it via torrent clients gets up to just 80-90MB/s and you can hear the disks rattle way more. (--edit: Array is not even half full, so there'd be plenty of contiguous free space on a traditional filesystem.) Filing this away in the mental file as I get around to setting up my machine (it's built, but sadly sitting in a corner waiting for grad school to finish...). I'll probably use my SSD passed through to my Linux VM to be the landing pad for torrents / Usenet, and then only move completed files over.
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May 12, 2017 04:00
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DrDork posted:4. Stage a fire extinguisher next to your NAS. I keep the server in the same room as my laser cutter so the fire extinguisher does double duty there.
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May 12, 2017 05:49
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FISHMANPET posted:I keep the server in the same room as my laser cutter so the fire extinguisher does double duty there. Do you laser engrave drive numbers into your Reds? Because if so, I think we can finally mark "Case Closed" on the mystery of the spontaneous drive combustion!
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May 12, 2017 13:22
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movax posted:Filing this away in the mental file as I get around to setting up my machine (it's built, but sadly sitting in a corner waiting for grad school to finish...). I'll probably use my SSD passed through to my Linux VM to be the landing pad for torrents / Usenet, and then only move completed files over.
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May 12, 2017 13:24
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What's a good external hard drive for backup purposes (will act as a mid point between an offsite NAS)? Minimum 2TB storage. I'm wondering because supposedly USB 3.0 external drives I am looking at have speed ratings of 5mbps, I mean what the heck. I read there's some real cheap chinese poo poo on the market pretending to be USB 3.0 so I guess I ran across that. Hence I'm looking for a quality drive.
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May 16, 2017 07:02
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His Divine Shadow posted:What's a good external hard drive for backup purposes (will act as a mid point between an offsite NAS)? Minimum 2TB storage. I'm wondering because supposedly USB 3.0 external drives I am looking at have speed ratings of 5mbps, I mean what the heck. I read there's some real cheap chinese poo poo on the market pretending to be USB 3.0 so I guess I ran across that. Hence I'm looking for a quality drive. If you're worried about buying a cheap piece of poo poo, uh, don't do that? Seagate and Western Digital both sell branded USB 3.0 externals. Buy one of the 2.5" models because they're way better than 3.5" if you're carrying something around between two sites: smaller, lighter, usually don't need a power brick, and are much more resistant to mechanical shock.
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May 16, 2017 11:38
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I just upgraded to my 5th 4TB Hitachi NAS HD. Before I was just running RAID1 basically. Now with 5 drives should I be looking at say RAID6 instead? Should I look into ZFS? My box has a Core i7 with 32GB RAM if it matters. https://bitflock.com/MHS9WZBV redeyes fucked around with this message at 15:17 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 15:14
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It depends entirely on what you're using them for and what you want to get out of them. RAID is certainly an option, as is ZFS (and presumably the RAIDZ it enables), but you give up space to get safety: RAID6 will cost you two drives of "lost space." So the question is how important is the data, and how much failure/risk are you willing to tolerate? If it's all trash media data that's easy to recover, maybe go with RAID5 (one drive redundancy) so you're not "losing" much space, but still giving yourself some fault-tolerance. If it's more important, then you can scale up from there. Also, not sure if this is a NAS box or a desktop, but ZFS is happiest when it's running on bare metal, so not something you'd want to try dealing with on the same machine you're running Windows for gaming or whatever on.
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May 16, 2017 15:26
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DrDork posted:It depends entirely on what you're using them for and what you want to get out of them. Its a rackmount workstation box which is just standard Z270 based i7 7700k but I use HyperV to run Windows 2016 sever as the NAS OS with Stablebit Drivepool in RAID1 mode. So I get 10TB out of the 20TB. Usage is mostly just file storage. I do stream video cameras to the box as well.
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May 16, 2017 15:30
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redeyes posted:Usage is mostly just file storage. I do stream video cameras to the box as well. If it's not critical data (preferably data you have backed up elsewhere, like Crashplan), then yeah, RAID5 would get you 16TB out of that 20TB as usable, and you still can lose any disk and not lose data. Write performance on RAID5/6 should be more than enough for your normal security cam streams.
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May 16, 2017 23:24
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DrDork posted:If it's not critical data (preferably data you have backed up elsewhere, like Crashplan), then yeah, RAID5 would get you 16TB out of that 20TB as usable, and you still can lose any disk and not lose data. It's backed up weekly to a external HD which is stored offline. Still, the data is important enough I wouldn't want to rebuild everything.
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May 17, 2017 14:53
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I heard that the jails for Plex and usenet services have gone away in the newest version of FreeNAS. What do people use now? My friend has set most of my system up and rather than use the new way, he setup a virtual ubuntu machine on the NAS to run that stuff. He's having an issue though where the share will randomly unmount itself from the VM. He has a work around, but it's janky. Is this a bug or maybe this is a very small use case so no one will know what's going on? I know he wants to look into it more himself, but thought I'd try and start gathering some info to help out since he helps me a lot with the setup.
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May 17, 2017 18:01
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FreeNAS Corral / 10 tried to abandon jails, but FreeNAS has already abandoned Corral.
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May 17, 2017 18:58
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KingKapalone posted:I heard that the jails for Plex and usenet services have gone away in the newest version of FreeNAS. What do people use now? As IOwnCalculus noted, this is more or less true for FreeNAS 10. But FreeNAS 11 just dropped, and it is an extension of FreeNAS 9 (not 10), replete with continuing jail support just like before. Basically, forget FreeNAS 10 and its attempt to ditch jails for Docker ever happened. Though Docker will eventually be stuffed into 11 as an option "in addition to" rather than "as a replacement for" jails, but that won't be for months.
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May 17, 2017 19:35
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SamDabbers posted:I have had 8 WD Reds spinning for over a year and they haven't caught fire even once. They are quiet too. I have 4 drives in an enclosure that have almost 4 years of use on them. They are pretty much the yardstick by which you measure other drives. DrDork posted:-The WD Reds have 3 reviews involving fire out of over 4,000. Randomly checking around with other, non-NAS drives of various sorts, many seem to have the occasional mention of fire. Figure that a drive catching on fire is far more likely to elicit a review than a drive that works perfectly, and <0.1% of reviews noting fire would suggest this isn't much of a problem. Star War Sex Parrot posted:I've actually tested 4000+ Reds and the only fires I've seen in my lab were caused by bad molex->SATA adapters and happen with any drive. I had this exact same thought. There was a really lovely batch of connectors and they tend to short out and catch fire. Not just molex adapters, but things like y-cables/splitters too (which obviously nobody would ever use in their NAS array! /s). So this really may not even have been the drives themselves, unless otherwise specified. They are just really common drives ergo they obviously intersect to some degree with people who use lovely chinese cables. BobHoward posted:If you're worried about buying a cheap piece of poo poo, uh, don't do that? Seagate and Western Digital both sell branded USB 3.0 externals. Buy one of the 2.5" models because they're way better than 3.5" if you're carrying something around between two sites: smaller, lighter, usually don't need a power brick, and are much more resistant to mechanical shock. Actually that's the worst thing you could do. External drives typically have the cheapest shittiest drives and if there's ever an issue with a specific model (say, Seagate 3TB) that sucks so bad they can't sell it normally then you bet your rear end they're dumping that poo poo into external drives where nobody can see the model number before they buy. Warranties are often shorter too, which works nicely for them. If you're worried, the best approach is to buy a $20 Rosewill USB 3.0 enclosure and throw in whatever drive you like. Buying a portable 2.5" drive is good advice though. I have a Silicon Power unit that has some nice rubber armor that has survived a couple tumbles. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:13 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 20:02
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DrDork posted:As IOwnCalculus noted, this is more or less true for FreeNAS 10. But FreeNAS 11 just dropped, and it is an extension of FreeNAS 9 (not 10), replete with continuing jail support just like before. Are jails the preferred method for setting up Plex and usenet services then? I don't know a ton, but I did just see this reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/freenas/comments/6bbeal/plex_on_freenas_question/ and it sounds like Plex doesn't run well on jails so maybe the VM option is actually preferred?
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May 17, 2017 21:12
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Paul MaudDib posted:Actually that's the worst thing you could do. External drives typically have the cheapest shittiest drives and if there's ever an issue with a specific model (say, Seagate 3TB) that sucks so bad they can't sell it normally then you bet your rear end they're dumping that poo poo into external drives where nobody can see the model number before they buy. I feel pretty safe in saying that the case for this is computer nerd mythology. I have never seen actual data showing that external HDDs are consistently less reliable, and in the case of the Seagate/WD 2.5" externals I recommended, the disks inside are usually only usable as externals because the USB3 bridge is integrated into the drive's controller PCB and there's no SATA connector, disproving the idea that they always just shovel random leftovers into a case and call it a day. Also the guy's use case was moving data from site to site on an external so I presume the external isn't even the permanent long term storage, just used to sneakernet things.
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May 17, 2017 21:32
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KingKapalone posted:Are jails the preferred method for setting up Plex and usenet services then? I don't know a ton, but I did just see this reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/freenas/comments/6bbeal/plex_on_freenas_question/ and it sounds like Plex doesn't run well on jails so maybe the VM option is actually preferred? Jails vs VMs depend on what you're doing and the effort you're willing to invest. For Plex on FreeNAS, in specific, the jail/plugin version runs perfectly fine, and is a click-and-run installation from the web GUI, so there's little reason to put it into a VM unless you have some other specific requirements that recommend that solution. The one downside is that (at least currently on 9.x), Plex often will not pick up new media through the "Run a partial scan when changes are detected" option (ie, pick a new file up as soon as it's dumped into a folder it's watching). It will still pick it up if you tell it to refresh/update from the Plex GUI, or whenever it runs the next scheduled scan.
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May 17, 2017 21:46
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I run Plex in a Ubuntu VM and sab in a LXC container. It works, mind you this is on Linux.
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May 17, 2017 22:19
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BobHoward posted:I feel pretty safe in saying that the case for this is computer nerd mythology. I love how we're using the super complicated machines that required super smart people standing on the shoulders of super smart people and we are all pretty smart people using them and yet we still fall prey to such.
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May 17, 2017 22:22
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BobHoward posted:I feel pretty safe in saying that the case for this is computer nerd mythology. I have never seen actual data showing that external HDDs are consistently less reliable, and in the case of the Seagate/WD 2.5" externals I recommended, the disks inside are usually only usable as externals because the USB3 bridge is integrated into the drive's controller PCB and there's no SATA connector, disproving the idea that they always just shovel random leftovers into a case and call it a day.
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May 17, 2017 22:46
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necrobobsledder posted:The problem is that there's nobody that will even be capable of putting out such a dataset because if it doesn't meet expectations and external HDDs are more reliable than warranty would indicate, then it would tank revenue for the manufacturer. Secondly, anyone that's got that many drives to produce a statistically valid sample will be operating a business almost certainly, and they would rather pay a little more for drives for some better chance of warranty than taking their chances. While all that is true, it won't stop some nerds from repeating the unsupported hypothesis that external drives are rejects as if its established fact.
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May 17, 2017 22:48
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https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure/that backblaze blog post posted:Adding to this is the fact that 300 of the Hitachi 3TB drives deployed in 2012 were external drives. These drives showed no evidence of failing at a higher rate than their internal counterparts. This is in the context of figuring out why some population of drives had a higher failure rate than they had seen with others, and is two years old, but it's at least some sort of study about shucked drives.
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May 17, 2017 23:45
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necrobobsledder posted:The problem is that there's nobody that will even be capable of putting out such a dataset because if it doesn't meet expectations and external HDDs are more reliable than warranty would indicate, then it would tank revenue for the manufacturer. Secondly, anyone that's got that many drives to produce a statistically valid sample will be operating a business almost certainly, and they would rather pay a little more for drives for some better chance of warranty than taking their chances. Also, the manufacturers know people tend to 'whoops' an external drive onto the floor, via accident, rear end in a top hat cat, or negligence a shitload more often that an internal drive, and arguing with indignant assholes costs time and money. Therefore the warranty periods are a lot shorter to insure that whatever costs associated with honoring them fall below whatever profitability metrics they needed. It wouldn't shock me to know that a batch of drives that very marginally passed the ISO 900000000000001 QC process got slated as external drives often enough to start that myth, but I also wouldn't doubt that tons of indignant amazon and newegg reviews spawned because they dropped it off their desk and WD/Seagate/Hitachi refused to honor the warranty once they admitted to that fact.
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May 18, 2017 10:14
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90001 is so easy to get. It's just a quality assurance process and depending on country sometimes it's a joke and more of a marketing thing
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May 18, 2017 15:17
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ISO 9001 means your manufacturing processes are supposed to be documented and be reproducible by new guys using these docs. Here's how it goes where I work: Barebones documentation and some fluff in regards to defect handling, that the auditor checks (quotemarks around that word might be appropriate), then he bugs the worker at random production lines with a bunch of stupid questions, where the worker either points a finger at a folder with the docs or makes up some random bullshit about the manufacturing process that the auditor usually can't really verify due to lack of process specific knowledge. The auditor then takes off and there's your ISO 9001 certification (renewal). It's just a whole lot of pretend. ISO 14001 is the same bullshit in regards to environmental management, where everything's clean, safe and waste gets tried when the auditor comes, and once he's gone, inappropriate things get tossed into generic trash containers again and random liquids flushed down the drain (except oil, because that's too obvious to spot in the sewers).
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May 18, 2017 17:05
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ISO 9001 is a very useful tool if you genuinely want an environment where everything is documented, and the audits can be a good tool to help learn and enforce the discipline. If you just want the cert without actually changing your environment, it becomes a charade that irritates everyone involved.
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May 18, 2017 17:22
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Personally I don't give a crap about it all, but for some reason the people you sell to seem to insist on you having it, and over here it's pretty drat hard to document handling of all the funny ways precursors and the manufacturing lines are trying to ruin your day via random new failure modes, while you're hard pressed to keep things working (i.e. improvisation like hell), attempts of documentation seem silly to me. New personnel gets trained by existing ones, too. So meh. ISO 9001 probably works better in office positions and on plain assembly lines where people do a single repetitive task at their station.
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May 18, 2017 18:12
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I installed Corral and promptly forgot about it since I never got to the 'prime time' point with it. And now Corral is dead. So now I just install 9? Haha wtf. I've been pretty spoiled by my Synology.
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May 19, 2017 21:05
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Well, you'd probably want 11, not 9. Not sure how graceful the update from Corral to 11 is, though--I know anything you've done with Docker won't carry over, at a minimum.
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May 19, 2017 21:21
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There is no upgrade path from 10 to 11, and the FreeNAS forums make SH/SC seem downright welcoming.
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May 19, 2017 21:24
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DrDork posted:Well, you'd probably want 11, not 9. Not sure how graceful the update from Corral to 11 is, though--I know anything you've done with Docker won't carry over, at a minimum. I just installed it and setup a test volume. Sounds like I can go wherever.
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May 19, 2017 23:27
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DrDork posted:Not sure how graceful the update from Corral to 11 is
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May 20, 2017 02:10
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Combat Pretzel posted:Just tried. Fails to boot. Thank god for ZFS boot environments. I have unfucked myself so many times thanks to zpool import and zfs boot environments.
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May 20, 2017 02:19
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