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I am very upset about the assumptions I am making based on very limited information!!
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May 12, 2017 16:18
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| # ? May 30, 2024 16:32 |
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Well if you ignore them invalidating all books from past editions, and mix in some stuff I made up out of nowhere, you can see how 8th is a horrible horrible mess
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May 12, 2017 16:23
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Pawl posted:I could see units like the Tervigon having a special rule that gets them around the summoning restrictions They still need to convince me that Cruddance didn't somehow make my favorite army poo poo for the third time in a row.
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May 12, 2017 16:23
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It's clear they're going to have a Generals Handbook which has all points in, cross referenced to the datasheets. So to play competitive you need 2-3 things: 1) the rules 2) datasheet and (3) the points list). You don't even need the points list for playing the game... Just list building.
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May 12, 2017 16:23
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My assumption is that I will like most things about 8th, dislike some things, and houserule my 30k army to fit the new system.
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May 12, 2017 16:23
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panascope posted:My assumption is that I will like most things about 8th, dislike some things, and houserule my 30k army to fit the new system. The official word from FW is that 30k will use 7th for a little while, but make the jump eventually (~6 months is what I think I heard)
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May 12, 2017 16:31
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Lord Twisted posted:It's clear they're going to have a Generals Handbook which has all points in, cross referenced to the datasheets. So to play competitive you need 2-3 things: Basic rules are free Datasheets are free Points and Matched Play rules will be in the Commissars Handbook but can certainly be found for free online Serious players (ie: most people) will want to get the codex for their faction for faction-specific bonuses Looks good to me
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May 12, 2017 16:32
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How much are Marines currently?
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May 12, 2017 16:35
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:How much are Marines currently? 14 points, iirc. I think this makes them 1 point cheaper. The weapon costs they've previewed are higher, though. Which makes sense at least for heavy weapons, since they can move and still hit 50% of the time now.
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May 12, 2017 16:38
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Pawl posted:Basic rules are free OOooh! Will the Commissars handbook be all fancy like the imperial infantryman's uplifting primer is?
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May 12, 2017 16:42
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Have they shared with us what will be the major time savers in 8th? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really don't see how the changes they have shared would cut the game time in half, maybe like 20 or 40 minutes, but my shortest 2,000 point games run around 4 hours.
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May 12, 2017 16:42
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Have they shared with us what will be the major time savers in 8th? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really don't see how the changes they have shared would cut the game time in half, maybe like 20 or 40 minutes, but my shortest 2,000 point games run around 4 hours. I'm in this same boat. Near as I can tell, the big time-savers so far are: - Picking warlord traits/psychic powers (so you know coming into the game what they are) - Shorter psychic phase - Losing more models to morale which doesn't seem to add up to 50% time savings
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May 12, 2017 16:44
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Have they shared with us what will be the major time savers in 8th? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really don't see how the changes they have shared would cut the game time in half, maybe like 20 or 40 minutes, but my shortest 2,000 point games run around 4 hours. The biggest things so far? - Less/no rerolls - Combining run with the move phase - No templates and scatter (and less focus on super-precise movement and placement) Not sure how much time it will shave off, but it should shave off some. Rules clarity and simplicity will go a long way too.
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May 12, 2017 16:45
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Have they shared with us what will be the major time savers in 8th? I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I really don't see how the changes they have shared would cut the game time in half, maybe like 20 or 40 minutes, but my shortest 2,000 point games run around 4 hours. No templates, truncated psychic phase, quicker shooting, less stages to combat, less looking up USRs or faffing about with rule interactions for desthstars I think are the main ones so far? Also hard to gauge points between editions tbh, as we don't know relative power levels much still. 13 points for an 8th ed marine is not the same as a 14 pt 7th ed marine... As the 8th ed marine is fighting 8th ed armies.
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May 12, 2017 16:46
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Lord Twisted posted:No templates, truncated psychic phase, quicker shooting, less stages to combat, less looking up USRs or faffing about with rule interactions for desthstars I think are the main ones so far? Have they gone into details about how the Psychic phase works? I thought they said every psyker is going to get to cast their spells, which to me sounds like more psyker powers being cast, not fewer, could be misremembering here. How is shooting quicker? They added two new rolls for a lot of special and heavy weapons and didn't get rid of any rolls. I mean I guess twin link being more dice instead of rerolling will save some time. What are the less stages in assault? Don't you just alternate activating instead of doing it in order of initiative? Like won't the same number of guys be attacking and won't you have to roll different weapons separately and such? Maybe since you get to hit with power fist and thunder hammers first there just won't be dudes to attack back with which could save time, not sure how I feel about that though.
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May 12, 2017 16:57
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Removing templates should save a ton of time by de-incentivising positioning your models exactly 1.999" away from each other.
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May 12, 2017 17:02
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moths posted:Removing templates should save a ton of time by de-incentivising positioning your models exactly 1.999" away from each other. I imagine people who play that way can't get a 2,000 point game done in 4 hours either. 4 hours is a pretty fast 2,000 point game in my group. All of us are familiar with the rules and don't crack open the basic rule book during games very often, and don't have to look up stats on our units very often either. We also never spend time separating our units exactly 2 inches from each other.
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May 12, 2017 17:07
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There's also almost no book keeping between rounds, other than wounds. That will speed up the game as well.
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May 12, 2017 17:10
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JesusIsTehCool posted:I thought they said every psyker is going to get to cast their spells, which to me sounds like more psyker powers being cast Have you ever actually played the current psychic phase? With 8th you're not forced to figure out how many dumb loving charges to attempt to harness per power while taking into account the total warp charges plus d6 of lolrandumb. You're also not rolling for the loving powers at the start of the match because
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May 12, 2017 17:16
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There's a 2,000 point tournament I play in every year and with 3 hour rounds I've always completed my games with plenty of time to spare. Most other games I see also seem to finish on time.
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May 12, 2017 17:19
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Getting rid of rerolls for twin linked speeds up shooting. More broadly, weapons also seem to be more lethal. 30k plays a lot faster than 40k since stuff tends to die quickly, so they might be taking a page out of that book.
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May 12, 2017 17:23
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Mango Polo posted:Have you ever actually played the current psychic phase? While im not a big fan of how the current psykic phase works now and I agree with many of your problems with it, I dont see how those thing effect time. It takes 5 secs to roll a d6 and add up charges, maybe a minute to figure out the 2 to 4 spells you want to try and cast. For me rolling the effects of the spells normally takes more time. I feel like it is pretty common to cast less spells than you have psykers right now, which from what I hear, wont be the case in 8th. Is three hours really the norm for a 2,000 point game? If so I guess I am just super slow. They likely could squeeze an hour out with the changes they are making so I guess I could just be I take to long and there is nothing GW can do about that.
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May 12, 2017 17:29
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JesusIsTehCool posted:While im not a big fan of how the current psykic phase works now and I agree with many of your problems with it, I dont see how those thing effect time. It takes 5 secs to roll a d6 and add up charges, maybe a minute to figure out the 2 to 4 spells you want to try and cast. For me rolling the effects of the spells normally takes more time. I feel like it is pretty common to cast less spells than you have psykers right now, which from what I hear, wont be the case in 8th. Most of the games I play are against Necrons, Tau, and admech so I can confirm that removing the psychic phase will not speed anything up
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May 12, 2017 17:35
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The biggest thing that will save time for me and my friends. Is no longer having to look up rules or charts.
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May 12, 2017 17:35
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Three hours for two thousand points is pretty long to me. Hixson and I can finish a 2000 point 40k game in about 90 minutes, or at least we could before we switched to 30k.
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May 12, 2017 17:35
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panascope posted:Three hours for two thousand points is pretty long to me. Hixson and I can finish a 2000 point 40k game in about 90 minutes, or at least we could before we switched to 30k. That's nothing. ANAmal and I can get a 2,500-point game done in less than an hour, when I roll first turn and destroy half his deployed-like-rear end army and he's drunk and angry enough to concede at the bottom of turn 2
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May 12, 2017 17:47
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panascope posted:Three hours for two thousand points is pretty long to me. Hixson and I can finish a 2000 point 40k game in about 90 minutes, or at least we could before we switched to 30k. Ironically the longest game I ever played was the one against you guys, but I think that's because you wandered off for a few hours while the rest of us slammed Busch lite continuously without eating anything in your absence.
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May 12, 2017 17:47
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Not everyone who plays has every rule memorised, or memory can be impaired by beer or tiredness after a long day. People who play in tournaments are more likely to be up on rules than most. Stopping to look up rules can slow down play. Especially with some unit types if you don't see them that often in your group. Flying monstrous creatures as an example. A lot of rules tend to be subtly different which can aid confusion. I play in a fairly casual, narrative based group and I can see a lot of things speeding up, though you are trading remembering lookup tables for some fairly basic mental maths with the modifiers.
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May 12, 2017 17:49
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panascope posted:Three hours for two thousand points is pretty long to me. Hixson and I can finish a 2000 point 40k game in about 90 minutes, or at least we could before we switched to 30k. Holy poo poo thats a sub 8 minute per turn not counting set up. I am lucky to get a sub 8 minute movement with my nids at 1500. How did you guys play so fast?
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May 12, 2017 17:49
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There is only one worry that I have with 8th and that's how quickly and easily my Forgeworld stuff will be updated. And related to that, will Bran Redmaw be updated even though he doesn't have a model.
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May 12, 2017 17:50
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Holy poo poo thats a sub 8 minute per turn not counting set up. I am lucky to get a sub 8 minute movement with my nids at 1500. How did you guys play so fast? No horde armies and no assaults makes things go pretty quickly.
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May 12, 2017 17:54
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Are people seriously taking 4 hours to finish a 2000pt game? I appreciate I've barely played since early 6th but surely there's not been so much bloat that this thing takes twice as long to play.
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May 12, 2017 18:04
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Munchables posted:Howdy folks, been workin on my current models, but because my sergeant is in stripping limbo I made this guy, but idk what to do with him. Would he be eligible as a sergeant or would he have to be a terminator or captain or something? I like mister fister here. As for eligibility just make sure to tell your opponent which of his fists actually counts and you should be fine. Shove a holstered gun on him someplace for his bolt pistol (don't worry that he couldn't conceivably ever draw and fire it) and you're golden.
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May 12, 2017 18:08
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Holy poo poo thats a sub 8 minute per turn not counting set up. I am lucky to get a sub 8 minute movement with my nids at 1500. How did you guys play so fast? Knowing most of the rules and stats cuts down on flipping through rule books and having dumb arguments (we still have dumb arguments and I'm usually right)
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May 12, 2017 18:30
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DO IT TO IT posted:I wonder if Tervigon spawning will count as summoning and require points to be set aside like this. Probably, but I imagine they'll change it to a flat amount of points a turn without the chance to burn out.
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May 12, 2017 18:42
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Probably, but I imagine they'll change it to a random amount of points a turn with mortal wounds if you exceed your maximum welcome to Tyranids blackjack bitch
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May 12, 2017 18:55
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Hixson posted:Knowing most of the rules and stats cuts down on flipping through rule books and having dumb arguments (we still have dumb arguments and I'm usually right) I feel like my friends and I dont really look through the rule book ofte, maybe once or twice a game and we settle what few arguments during the game with a high low dice roll to keep things moving. If this speed of play is normal than why on earth are people complaining about game length? Thats equal to or faster than most board games these days.
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May 12, 2017 19:03
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I have had a 1,500 point game take 8 hours. I played Orks and he played Eldar, I probably posted the battle report here. Regular 30 minute movement phase as each possible action is weighed and balanced. Then there was the shooting phase and consideration of where to place apocalyptic sized templates. I would slow things down by rolling lots of dice, (almost always saving rolls from Eldar shooting followed by feel no pain with look out sirs thrown in). Tbf we both play once/twice a year so everything was looked up in the book. That can take a while.
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May 12, 2017 19:10
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JesusIsTehCool posted:I feel like my friends and I dont really look through the rule book ofte, maybe once or twice a game and we settle what few arguments during the game with a high low dice roll to keep things moving. If this speed of play is normal than why on earth are people complaining about game length? Thats equal to or faster than most board games these days. WOW once played a game at Nova two years ago where when time was called they were half way through the bottom of turn 2. I think it was a 2 1/2 hour game too.
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May 12, 2017 19:30
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MasterSlowPoke posted:WOW once played a game at Nova two years ago where when time was called they were half way through the bottom of turn 2. I think it was a 2 1/2 hour game too. What is the average game length for your 2000 point games? I am honestly confused as I thought it was some where between 5 and 6 hours but some people seem to think its much shorter. I guess this tangent is more about how I can see how the changes they have shown in 8th might save an hour, which if the game takes only 3 hours for most people gets them to their 2 hour game length, if it takes people 5 hours there is still 2 hours worth of rules that cut time down they havent shown us, which seems like a lot to me.
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May 12, 2017 19:41
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