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Just a few comments on the IMF report: - Property tax in Germany is a communal decision, which means that the Bundesregierung has very little influence on it. - Germany has "Tarifautonomie" (wage autonomy) guaranteed in the constitution, which means the government can't force higher wages. - There are not enough shovel-ready projects to invest more money into infrastructure at the moment. - All parties want to smooth out the income tax, especially since you are far to quickly in the top bracket
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May 12, 2017 17:01
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GaussianCopula posted:Just a few comments on the IMF report: Go build fifteen nuclear power plants. Or two hundred glorious Pumpspeicherwerks to move 100% renewable from  status to inefficient and super expensive but possible status. There's always something useful to spend fifty billion euros on.
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May 12, 2017 17:07
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
blowfish posted:Go build fifteen nuclear power plants. Or two hundred glorious Pumpspeicherwerks to move 100% renewable from There are no 50 billion, as some of that money was already spend on stuff like increased child tax allowance, more money from the Bund to pay for refugees etc., as Wolfi explained in his press conference.
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May 12, 2017 17:15
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Electronico6 posted:You forgot the Eurovision final too! There will be riots in the streets if anything happens to the Eurovision final!
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May 12, 2017 17:16
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Pizdec posted:So do constantly-changing doctors. Only because of lack of a good system of making sure appropriate information about each patient is being written down/otherwise recorded and made available. It's an issue of the processes in use, not an inherent problem of putting people on rotations more often. And incidentally, the longer they've been doing their shift, the more likely they are to gently caress up the handover procedure...
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May 12, 2017 17:21
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GaussianCopula posted:Just a few comments on the IMF report: Wow. The fact that the architects of your Constitution were so afraid of socialists that they wrote a provision forbidding the state from having a say in the workers' wages speaks volumes You guys probably should scrap it and write a new one
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May 12, 2017 17:23
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German Constitution had to be co-signed by NATO allies, and it was being written in the middle of the ~red scare~ in 1949, during the Berlin blockade. As you can imagine, there's many good things in it for this reason, but also some really dumb ones.
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May 12, 2017 17:29
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I get that, I really do, but at the same time the French Constitution of 1946 consecrated many workers' rights, including going on strike and demonstrating, and many other fun stuff such as nationalizations, access to certain public services, and so on. Germans got shafted. But they can still change all that! Stop being pitiable, reject the yoke of free market liberalism! You've got nothing to lose but your chains!
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May 12, 2017 17:40
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I don't really think that fear of the reds really is the reasoning behind that being in the constitution. Norway for instance also has a similar system with minimum wage, though I don't think it is enshrined in the constituition. But likewise there is no national minimum wage. What the minimum wage for a given job is comes down to what has previously been negotiated between employers and labor unions, usually called "tariff wage" ("tarifflønn"). I think this is one feature that Germany has in common with many Scandinavian countries, for instance Norway, is that labor politics (as well as a lot of workplace adiminstration and stuff) really is left to a combination of employer organizations and labor unions and the agreements they work out over time, with the state mostly acting as mediator and guarantor. A kind of corporative system really. e: Though looking around it seems like Germany actually might have a national minimum wage, but tariffautonomie sounds alot like the system used in Scandinavia really. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 17:45
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Randarkman posted:I don't really think that fear of the reds really is the reasoning behind that being in the constitution. Fear of the Reds had some influence, though not on the 1949 constitution but rather on the Stinnes-Legien-Pact between employers and employees in 1918 who wanted to protect against state influence (it also introduced the 8h work day). Flowers For Algeria posted:I get that, I really do, but at the same time the French Constitution of 1946 consecrated many workers' rights, including going on strike and demonstrating As does the German constitution.
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May 12, 2017 17:50
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Wow. The fact that the architects of your Constitution were so afraid of socialists that they wrote a provision forbidding the state from having a say in the workers' wages speaks volumes It's more about the fact that the actually affected parties(unions and employers) are better qualified to make these decisions, instead of the state. The federal government introduced a minimum wage two years ago and the whole thing was a wet fart and total waste of time, as a lot of unions predicted and which they opposed.
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May 12, 2017 17:52
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Germans got shafted. But they can still change all that! Stop being pitiable, reject the yoke of free market liberalism! You've got nothing to lose but your chains!
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May 12, 2017 17:55
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Oh man. Merkel is going to remain chancellor forever. Well, she probably deserves it I suppose.
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May 12, 2017 17:57
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I thought Germany, much like Belgium, had a trilateral system where the state does play a role, but mostly when labor representatives and employers can't agree on a given subject. It's a decent system on the whole, but the downsides are that it can get very complicated and that you can have some significant differences between sectors. Belgium additionally distinguishes between blue-collar and white-collar workers, though they introduced a law in 2014 to streamline the discrepancies to some extent.
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May 12, 2017 18:01
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GaussianCopula posted:There are no 50 billion, as some of that money was already spend on stuff like increased child tax allowance, more money from the Bund to pay for refugees etc., as Wolfi explained in his press conference. You have a negative interest rate on your bonds. People are willing to pay Germany to store their money there. There is as much money as you want there to be. You could, in the words of a wellknown expert, prime the pump. Pluskut Tukker fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 18:03
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i think germany used to have a sort of mixture of french labor law and scandanavian union corporatism the french style tenure law got repealed in the late 90s under schröder though, and they passed a national minimum wage a few years ago
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May 12, 2017 18:05
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Truga posted:German Constitution had to be co-signed by NATO allies, and it was being written in the middle of the ~red scare~ in 1949, during the Berlin blockade. I already said that I don't believe that ~Red Scare~ encouraged the US to write anti-labor legislation into the German constitution. But poo poo this was at the same time that noted anti-communist Douglas MacArthur as administrator of Japan encouraged membership in labor unions, struck down big powerful financial cartels and carried out a major land-reform to bring agricultural land under the ownership of the people who worked it. Generally it seems as if at that time regressive labor politics really wasn't part of what you did to "fight communism". And if anything at this time in history the Soviet Union was the country that severly restricted workers' rights to freely organize, strike and negotiate, not the United States and its European allies (at least the democracies) . Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 18:08
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:It's more about the fact that the actually affected parties(unions and employers) are better qualified to make these decisions, instead of the state. I don't see how it's a waste of time to ensure that no one can find a way to pay their employee only 1 euro an hour or something though? There should surely be a minimum floor that seeks to cover over any existing edge cases in the already agreed minimums for specific fields of work.
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May 12, 2017 18:23
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Wild Horses posted:6 hour shifts means you need to do more reports to the next nurse and doctor in line, but this is already being done, so you just do it earlier. This is not the biggest problem, since who knows, maybe we'll see new technologies or procedures that will help us on that front. And even if we don't, the doctors' being well-rested may balance out the mistakes made due to information discontinuity. The bigger issue is that if you already have to Wild Horses posted:employ temp doctors and nurses Now, if the numbers are similar in Sweden and stay the same across time, then the backlog of 10 years gives you a ~20% increase of available labour, provided all of those people still want to and are able to work. What about the rest? I mean, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the numbers are different in Sweden and the plan is just crazy enough to work! But if it isn't, and there aren't millions of practicioners who have quit over the years, but are ready to crawl out of the woodwork and jump into their old shoes in a moment's notice if the system changes, then you have 3 options: a) Say "oops" and do nothing while Sweden shrivels up and dies. b) Hastily reform the education system to the tune of what Flowers For Algeria said and hope it triples its output. Which you'll only see after like 10 years anyway, but I guess Swedes can go to Norway or Finland for their care during this time. c) Do what you're already doing - up the incentives for immigrant doctors and hope that enough of them come to plug the gaping hole in the system. If they do, congratulations! You got your 6-hour working day for doctors and Sweden doesn't shrivel up and die! Instead, some other, poorer country that you just brain-drained shrivels up and dies. edit - Of course, that is all provided you really, really want to keep the 6-hour working day at all costs. What would ACTUALLY happen is: d) Politicians kill themselves in the race to fix this trainwreck and introduce a few dozens provisions and exceptions that effectively make it so that doctors work the exact same hours and get the same pay as before, and nothing changes except that whatever left-wing party introduced the new scheme in the first place loses 20% in the polls, thus sentencing Sweden to death by 20 years of austerity. Pizdec fucked around with this message at 18:40 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 18:26
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fishmech posted:I don't see how it's a waste of time to ensure that no one can find a way to pay their employee only 1 euro an hour or something though? There should surely be a minimum floor that seeks to cover over any existing edge cases in the already agreed minimums for specific fields of work. It's probably a waste of time because that federal minimum wage is probably set alot lower than what the negotiated minimum wage for most, if not all, workplaces already is. Hence it's a waste of time, in a system where that empowers unions and employers to negotiate, talk, compromise and reach agreement on labor policies rather than leave it up to the state.
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May 12, 2017 18:26
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Phlegmish posted:I thought Germany, much like Belgium, had a trilateral system where the state does play a role, but mostly when labor representatives and employers can't agree on a given subject. It's a decent system on the whole, but the downsides are that it can get very complicated and that you can have some significant differences between sectors. Belgium additionally distinguishes between blue-collar and white-collar workers, though they introduced a law in 2014 to streamline the discrepancies to some extent. Yes, it is more similar to what describe. In yet another example of the horseshoe theory both GC and FfA seem to have gross misconceptions about German labor law.
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May 12, 2017 18:34
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Pluskut Tukker posted:You have a negative interest rate on your bonds. People are willing to pay Germany to store their money there. There is as much money as you want there to be. You could, in the words of a wellknown expert, prime the pump. The fact that the German government is more willing to keep paying eixsting interest and increasing their export inbalance with the rest of Europe is why they're being offered money for holding money. Germany is one giant bank, and everybody wants an account. Which makes it a bit absurd when schäuble and company bitch about Greece not being able to pay the troika more than 5,5% interest on their loans to to Greece. It's beyond disgusting to hear a country acting basically as a sovereign repo agency for their own banks, pretending like they're doing some service to the Greeks for taking out loans at negative interest rates and then loaning that money on to Greece for a loving profit. And then demand that Greece run a positive balance of accounts for the next century or so. It makes me vomit blood from sheer spite. Jesus loving christ GC how the gently caress do even defend this behaviour anymore? Do you really think this racket is going to have an outcome that doesn't involve the completely dissolution of this whole political union?
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May 12, 2017 18:35
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Randarkman posted:It's probably a waste of time because that federal minimum wage is probably set alot lower than what the negotiated minimum wage for most, if not all, workplaces already is. Hence it's a waste of time, in a system where that empowers unions and employers to negotiate, talk, compromise and reach agreement on labor policies rather than leave it up to the state. But the point of the national minimum in the system is that it ensures people who are somehow let out of existing negotiations still have a minimum as well, isn't it? Ideally yes, everyone is already covered, however there are surely people who fall through the cracks. And I don't see what would have been the "better" use of the time for the couple of legislators who wrote the law, and the time spent to pass it in the legislature either.
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May 12, 2017 18:36
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lollontee posted:The fact that the German government is more willing to keep paying eixsting interest and increasing their export inbalance with the rest of Europe is why they're being offered money for holding money. Germany is one giant bank, and everybody wants an account. Sorry, but your numbers are bullshit. http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/an-interest-rate-cut-will-do-little-to-solve-greek-budget-trouble-a-923281.html According to this, Greece pays an interest rate of Euribor rate +0,5 % on the money from the first bailout package, money that came from European member states, and as Euribor currently is negative, it pays less than 0.5% interest on that. Greece would have to pay below 2% on the later bailout packages from the ESM, but those interest payments are defered for 10 years, so no interest at all. http://www.cadtm.org/spip.php?page=imprimer&id_article=11499 The IMF loans on the other hand cost Greece about 3,6%, so if you have to complain, complain about the IMF.
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May 12, 2017 19:18
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Germany doesn't need to lower itself to petty loansharking to make money with the oppobrium of it's economic protectorates Germany made €100bn profit on Greek crisis – study https://www.rt.com/business/312080-germany-profits-greece-debt/ It's a systemic pyramid scheme they got running, no need for direct accountable misdeeds. Just let 'the market' do it's job.
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May 12, 2017 19:51
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Also doctors are far from being the only kind of personnel in hospitals. Nurses, radio operators, stretcher bearers, midwives, administrative staff can all switch to 6 hours, no problem. No gently caress you. This post is extremely stupid.
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May 12, 2017 19:57
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Fados posted:Germany doesn't need to lower itself to petty loansharking to make money with the oppobrium of it's economic protectorates If you followed that logic, you could say Greece has made a huge profit because currently it lends from the IMF and European taxpayers at an interest rate of 1,5% instead of the markets where the rate for Greece interest (unsupported ) would be what 15-20% ? Hessi fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 19:58
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fishmech posted:But the point of the national minimum in the system is that it ensures people who are somehow let out of existing negotiations still have a minimum as well, isn't it? Ideally yes, everyone is already covered, however there are surely people who fall through the cracks. The US system is very different from the German one, it's not comparable. To make it short: - The developed parts of Germany didn't profit at all due to already high wages and just got a lot of useless bureaucracy. - The structurally weak parts experienced a lot of destabilization and just found new ways to keep paying below minimum wage to stay afloat. - Working poor getting a raise just got their welfare cut and didn't gain poo poo at the end of the month - Effect on poverty and income inequality was overall negligible/within the margin of error The point is that if you have working unions and a functioning legal framework for fair labor dispute, the state getting involved makes poo poo only worse.
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May 12, 2017 20:02
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Hessi posted:If you followed that logic, you could say Greece has made a huge profit because currently it lends from the IMF and European taxpayers at an interest rate of 1,5% instead from the markets where the rate for Greece interest (unsupported ) would be what 15-20% ? Yeah except they have crippling unemployment, are in the proccess of the whosale destroying their public sector and need to literall sell parts of their own country to stay afloat, so I guess, what I'm saying is that context matters. Now I fully expect someone like GC to answer me this by facetiously pertaining to stand pseudo-Kantianly against some Moral Hazard, that everyone has agreed 'voluntarily' to the legal treaties that made possible the arrival of this deadlock. Well, again, context matters. If you are in a pretty good situation and you're formal union members are doing really shittily, focusing on the accounting and legality of the situation instead of trying to faithfully entertain the proud german tradition of philosophically questioning of the conditions of possibility of things, seems to me like a dumb philistine (bourgeois) way of thinking about the european problem. Fados fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 20:09
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Pizdec posted:Good stuff As far as I'm concerned the problem with staff shortage stems from lack of specialist doctors and nurses Seeing as Sweden has a pretty high amount of doctors per 1000 people i don't think regular health care services would be hit as hard As far as the situation with specialists go, It's true we have a huge problem unfucking this situation, and putting extra strain on those workplaces might hurt more than help in some cases. But at the same time it's also the pressure on those guys that makes everything take an extra long time, like surgeries or whatever. An extra batch of fresh workers would enable more surgeries to be done for example. But yeah, there's some big humps to get over before we're close to the ideal situation. I must confess I'm not really Sure why our medical system works as inefficiently as it does. All the doctors i've talked to say different things
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May 12, 2017 20:13
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Fados posted:Yeah except they have crippling unemployment, are in the proccess of the whosale destroying their public sector and need to literall sell parts of their own country to stay afloat, so I guess, what I'm saying is that context matters. Well, the issue with Greece is that they consumed the wealth they borrowed between 2003 and 2009 and now they have to pay for it, which is made a lot easier (otherwise it would probably be impossible) by the very low interest rates they have to pay. To put it in a classical Keynesian image, breaking a window only works as stimulus if someone in your country fixes it, not if you import the new window.
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May 12, 2017 20:20
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Is Merkel gonna be forever-Chancellor or will the CDU lose an election sometime this century?
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May 12, 2017 20:51
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Fados posted:Germany doesn't need to lower itself to petty loansharking to make money with the oppobrium of it's economic protectorates It's Russia Times you're quoting though. Not a very trustworthy source.
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May 12, 2017 20:55
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Private Speech posted:It's Russia Times you're quoting though. Not a very trustworthy source. To be exact it's Russia Times quoting AFP who are in turn referring to a study done by some think-tank.
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May 12, 2017 21:03
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is Merkel gonna be forever-Chancellor or will the CDU lose an election sometime this century? I think she will be chancellor for at least four more years. Thankfully, humans don't live forever. She will be 67 in 2021.
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May 12, 2017 21:12
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Private Speech posted:It's Russia Times you're quoting though. Not a very trustworthy source. Thie original think tank analysis is legit (original report here, .pdf), but the conclusion is questionable. The German public sector may have benefitted from cheaper borrowing, but German savers holding public debt would have had lower investment income, and given the high German savings rate these losses would have been sizable. And of course for as long as Germany is guaranteeing loans to Greece it runs the risk of having some fraction of it not paid back (in fact we should be lowering the debt burden Greece is saddled with, so some losses are eventually inevitable). So Germany as a whole would have profited much less, if at all, and of making a profit was never the point of the bailouts anyway.
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May 12, 2017 21:17
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is Merkel gonna be forever-Chancellor or will the CDU lose an election sometime this century? SPD is making GBS threads its bed again and each is year getting worse than the one before. I don't think there is much hope at this point left, probably gonna dissolve in 10 years or so.
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May 12, 2017 21:17
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is Merkel gonna be forever-Chancellor or will the CDU lose an election sometime this century? The SPD celebrated Martin Schulz (former president of the EP, general shitler) like he was half Obama half Jesus. Does that answer your question?
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May 12, 2017 21:59
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There's no brakes on the Schulz train! 
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May 12, 2017 23:49
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:It's more about the fact that the actually affected parties(unions and employers) are better qualified to make these decisions, instead of the state. I'm sorry but when trying to define decent wages, the last people whose opinion should be paid attention to are employers.
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May 13, 2017 00:11
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