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It's not that Blizzard couldn't implement map vetoes, it's that they don't want to. They do the same thing in Overwatch too, literally nobody likes 2CP maps in that game but there's no way to opt out of them, presumably because they knew if players could do so nobody would ever play Anubis, Volskaya, or Hanamura ever again.
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May 13, 2017 00:24
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Still makes me laugh that Hanamura is just as bad here as it is in OW
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May 13, 2017 00:28
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Ciaphas posted:Still makes me laugh that Hanamura is just as bad here as it is in OW It's really not though, trust me. I'm sick of it because of the tiny rotation but it doesn't make my heart sink the way queuing into 2CP Hanamura does.
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May 13, 2017 00:37
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I kind of like the 2cp maps because I get tired of the payload maps. But they could do with a lot of improvement. Six map rotation is the pits. Especially with how polarizing hots map design is.
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May 13, 2017 00:42
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The 2CP maps are the only ones I actually like in OW. A lot of the Payload maps are terrible (King's Row).
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May 13, 2017 01:01
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Fuzz posted:The 2CP maps are the only ones I actually like in OW. A lot of the Payload maps are terrible (King's Row). 
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May 13, 2017 01:04
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May 13, 2017 01:05
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May 13, 2017 01:22
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im glad one of the pro players is named goku so i can listen to the casters discuss how great goku is.
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May 13, 2017 01:23
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I mean opinions and all but King's Row is the map everyone likes so much it's virtually guaranteed a spot in every professional tournament. It's like the default "what's a map that everyone can agree on" map.
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May 13, 2017 01:23
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Oh good now the thread is talking about map opinions for other games
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May 13, 2017 01:24
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We can't agree on maps in this game maybe we can find common ground in another
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May 13, 2017 01:31
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Minrad posted:my idea for map rotations: rotate out garden of terror, and then never rotate it back in. perfect map pool. Basically this, but you said Battlefield of Eternity instead.
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May 13, 2017 01:43
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If this conversation proves anything it's that a map hard veto system would severely impact the length of matchmaking as everyone would hard veto every map in the game and then complain about why it's taking so long to match.
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May 13, 2017 02:05
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monthly map rotation is stupid as gently caress.Belzac posted:If this conversation proves anything it's that a map hard veto system would severely impact the length of matchmaking as everyone would hard veto every map in the game and then complain about why it's taking so long to match. ??? You match game THEN veto a map it's not hard
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May 13, 2017 02:10
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What if between all 10 players every map is vetoed? Do you then play on a map that got vetoed but not as much? That's not a hard veto system that's a soft one. Or are you suggesting the captain pick a map to ban and everyone else can shove it. Either way you're still going to be "forced" to play on a map you don't like.
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May 13, 2017 02:23
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Also unless you've made a matchmaker that supports hundreds of thousands of players you have no business telling people what's "not hard" about matchmaking.
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May 13, 2017 02:26
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Gears of war had a system where they present two maps, and each player gets one vote. If tie it's a coin flip. Simple.
Olaf The Stout fucked around with this message at 02:33 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 02:26
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Olaf The Stout posted:Gears of war had a system where they present two map, and each player gets one vote. If tie it's a coin flip. Simple. What's your definition of simple? That would take a new UI system, testing with 10 players, support for disabling in custom games, how are the two maps picked? etc etc If your opinion on a fix ends with simple or easy you're not thinking about it hard enough.
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May 13, 2017 02:31
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Belzac posted:What if between all 10 players every map is vetoed? Do you then play on a map that got vetoed but not as much? That's not a hard veto system that's a soft one. Or are you suggesting the captain pick a map to ban and everyone else can shove it. Either way you're still going to be "forced" to play on a map you don't like. There are more than 10 maps, if you give everyone one veto this problem doesn't exist.
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May 13, 2017 02:32
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Belzac posted:What's your definition of simple? That would take a new UI system, testing with 10 players, support for disabling in custom games, how are the two maps picked? etc etc Those things are all also simple.
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May 13, 2017 02:34
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Olaf The Stout posted:Gears of war had a system where they present two maps, and each player gets one vote. If tie it's a coin flip. Simple. That's not a veto at all, and is in fact a worse system than just getting a random map. The argument is kind of pointless considering that Blizzard already has multiple games that have functional veto systems, and that exact system is what people want to see in HOTS.
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May 13, 2017 02:39
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Fellatio del Toro posted:That's not a veto at all, and is in fact a worse system than just getting a random map. How?
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May 13, 2017 02:41
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If 75% of players really like Map A and 25% of players hate Map A, under your system the players that hate Map A will end up playing it more than under a purely random system. It's the complete opposite of a veto.
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May 13, 2017 02:43
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garthoneeye posted:There are more than 10 maps, if you give everyone one veto this problem doesn't exist.
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May 13, 2017 02:49
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The only other game with a veto system to my knowledge is SC2 which is primarily a 1v1 game with 3 votes and a pool of 8 maps meaning that worst case there is always two maps the players will play on so it has no impact on matchmaking.
Belzac fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 02:50
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Belzac posted:The only other game with a veto system to my knowledge is SC2 which is primarily a 1v1 game with 3 votes and a pool of 8 maps meaning that worst case there is always two maps the players will play on so it has no impact on matchmaking. Then you can either sort by least veto'd or weight maps based on veto count and pick randomly from the weighted pool. There are countless ways to do the weighting, from a threshold to eliminate the map completely to a soft "shows up half as often if all 10 players veto it and slightly more frequently if less veto it". It also gives them immediate feedback on what people like or don't like if people can veto 1 or more maps. Khorne fucked around with this message at 03:15 on May 13, 2017 |
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May 13, 2017 02:58
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't really like that. If, say, 20% of people hate playing on a map you'd end up almost never playing on it. It could just narrow the effective map pool down to just a few inoffensive ones. I don't like it either, but what do people want out of a map ban in the first place other than I always get to play maps I like and I never have to play maps I don't.
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May 13, 2017 02:59
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WoW battlegrounds have vetoes while not only having to deal with healer/tank compositions but imbalanced faction populations and certain asymmetrical battlegrounds heavily favoring one faction
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May 13, 2017 03:01
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You could always simply handle it as an extension of the character ban system that's already in place. The game gives you three or five maps to choose from at the start, each team gets one or two bans, whichever one is left gets picked. Do it before character selection so everyone's on the same page. It won't give every player the option to perpetually avoid every map they hate while only ever playing the maps they love but that sort of goal isn't really feasible anyway.
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May 13, 2017 03:11
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Kai Tave posted:You could always simply handle it as an extension of the character ban system that's already in place. The game gives you three or five maps to choose from at the start, each team gets one or two bans, whichever one is left gets picked. Do it before character selection so everyone's on the same page. It won't give every player the option to perpetually avoid every map they hate while only ever playing the maps they love but that sort of goal isn't really feasible anyway. If there is a map that you really like that is generally unpopular you will never ever get to play it.
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May 13, 2017 03:22
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PureRok posted:Not to mention if you take the bottom/top keeps the camps will count as extra shots on their core if they get to the end of the lane. Taking the bottom keep is great value. 
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May 13, 2017 03:39
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Fellatio del Toro posted:WoW battlegrounds have vetoes while not only having to deal with healer/tank compositions but imbalanced faction populations and certain asymmetrical battlegrounds heavily favoring one faction And the fact that almost no one plays PvP in WoW
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May 13, 2017 03:41
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Kyrosiris posted:Zarya/Varian/Auriel/Valla/Murky vs Genji/Anub/Malf/Abathur/Xul on Sky Temple. Don't keep us in suspense, who won? 
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May 13, 2017 03:42
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It's so sad that For Honor has a better map selection system than this.
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May 13, 2017 03:44
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Secret message in Lunara's base HP?
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May 13, 2017 04:02
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Fellatio del Toro posted:If 75% of players really like Map A and 25% of players hate Map A, under your system the players that hate Map A will end up playing it more than under a purely random system. It's the complete opposite of a veto. Purely random: 50% of games are played on Map A. Coinflip veto: I always veto Map A. 25% of games (games against other players who also hate Map A) are on Map B. 50% of the remaining games are on Map A and on Map B: 37.5%. Total: 62.5% of games on Map B, 37.5% on Map A.
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May 13, 2017 04:04
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SKULL.GIF posted:Purely random: 50% of games are played on Map A. I'm not sure what you're describing but it's nothing like the console shooter map vote system he was talking about.
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May 13, 2017 04:22
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The brawl for this week is fun, but I also had toxic super serious people on my team for every single match. Also had my first game with Brazilians since I started. Now it feels like I'm playing a real moba.
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May 13, 2017 04:35
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Sorry to the dudes I dropped out on while playing as Azmodunk tonight. Somebody literally walked right into my house and I absolutely had to deal with it : / Also I don't mind any of the maps yet (only started playing again a week or so ago). Is the hate because the more specialized maps create situations where certain teams/heroes are poo poo?
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May 13, 2017 04:38
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