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Not at all, it was completely ridiculous, just a ham handed attempt to show this dude is legit, he speaks fluent asian!!
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May 14, 2017 15:39
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Gyges posted:I know very little about Chinese, other than Mandarin is one of several dialects. Is the Himalaya region of China even one where Mandarin would be the everyday language? We can imagine that he learned several languages during his stay, however. If you're going to be racist like he, Mandarin is your best bet, but it's weird to just go with it without being sure, but that's the writing for you. ufarn fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 15:44
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You'd think that they wouldn't have to worry about offending the PRC in this since China doesn't get Netflix and is unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future.
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May 14, 2017 16:37
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Stranger Danger Ranger posted:Not at all, it was completely ridiculous, just a ham handed attempt to show this dude is legit, he speaks fluent asian!!
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May 14, 2017 17:07
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Pakled posted:You'd think that they wouldn't have to worry about offending the PRC in this since China doesn't get Netflix and is unlikely to do so in the foreseeable future. Ehh, it's a Marvel property. China's too big a customer base to want to do anything to upset it. But likely it's easier to just keep pretending TIbet doesn't exist across all properties.
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May 14, 2017 17:19
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Mars4523 posted:...there were better ways to do it than having Danny accost the first Asian person he sees in the street and assume that she speaks the language of her ancestors. Watching this scene with a Chinese girl raised in the west was amazing. It pissed her off on multiple levels. His assumption Colleen knew Chinese. How bad he was at speaking it. The weird hubris of the show for thinking that made him look awesome. She instantly recalled every gap-year Buddhist white guy to hit on her in mispronounced Chinese, and her opinion of Danny Rand never recovered.
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May 15, 2017 00:09
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Xealot posted:Watching this scene with a Chinese girl raised in the west was amazing. It pissed her off on multiple levels. His assumption Colleen knew Chinese. How bad he was at speaking it. The weird hubris of the show for thinking that made him look awesome. I don't know why you think Danny should be super fluent in Chinese. K’un-Lun exists in another dimension and we don't know what language is spoken there. Heck, we see him speak to his best friend in English, so that's probably the common tongue among the students. Aside from that, the city appears in Tibet every 15 years, and if there is one language the monks would speak (if they speak at all), it would be Tibetan and not Chinese. Other than that, Danny assuming the first person he saw on the street spoke Chinese made sense to me, considering he was within close proximity to Chinatown where many Asians are fluent in Chinese. Besides, Colleen was putting up flyers for her dojo that were in Chinese, so it was natural for him to assume she spoke it.
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May 15, 2017 01:23
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Netflix Iron Fist apologists.
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May 15, 2017 01:30
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enraged_camel posted:I don't know why you think Danny should be super fluent in Chinese. K’un-Lun exists in another dimension and we don't know what language is spoken there. Heck, we see him speak to his best friend in English, so that's probably the common tongue among the students. Aside from that, the city appears in Tibet every 15 years, and if there is one language the monks would speak (if they speak at all), it would be Tibetan and not Chinese. The flyers were in English, you made a racist assumption like your main man, Daniel Rand. Chinatown and central park are also like, super apart. Buschmaki fucked around with this message at 01:44 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 01:40
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The flyers were in English, he reacts to her last name on the flier when they're already talking, and she actually basically starts the rudeness by assuming he's a beggar and giving him a dollar. This seems like a really over the top point of criticism for a show that has a ton of pretty clear flaws. Like, Danny's an awkward dweeb and socially backwards and that's pretty clearly established throughout the series. But racist because after growing up around people who probably spoke Chinese his entire life he assumes that the person with the Chinese surname might also speak Chinese? Its dumb and a little rude but racist?
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May 15, 2017 01:48
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STAC Goat posted:The flyers were in English, he reacts to her last name on the flier when they're already talking, and she actually basically starts the rudeness by assuming he's a beggar and giving him a dollar. He wasn't wearing shoes. A New Yorker was accosted by a strange shoeless man in ragged clothes. Also, at that point he literally was homeless and living in the park STAC Goat posted:This seems like a really over the top point of criticism for a show that has a ton of pretty clear flaws. Like, Danny's an awkward dweeb and socially backwards and that's pretty clearly established throughout the series. But racist because after growing up around people who probably spoke Chinese his entire life he assumes that the person with the Chinese surname might also speak Chinese? Its dumb and a little rude but racist? Yeah, the show did have a pretty good backstory for why Danny would do something that's lovely and racist and actual IRL Asian Americans have to deal with. I'm not sure why that makes it not a problem with the show, or not part of the show's overall complete failure to make Danny likable.
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May 15, 2017 02:21
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I regret wading into this and officially say I have no grounds to decide what Asian Americans should or shouldn't find racist. But for whatever its worth Danny was minding his own business when Colleen put a dollar in his drinking cup and he only "accosted" her to give her her money back which is when he noticed the flier and her name. Like, that's all I really meant to say. Danny's an awkward, socially maladjusted dork but he didn't just randomly jump an Asian person he saw in the street and start speaking Mandarin to her apropos of nothing. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 02:34
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STAC Goat posted:I regret wading into this and officially say I have no grounds to decide what Asian Americans should or shouldn't find racist. But for whatever its worth Danny was minding his own business when Colleen put a dollar in his drinking cup and he only "accosted" her to give her her money back which is when he noticed the flier and her name. I agree with you, for what it's worth. I think Iron Fist's biggest crime, both as a show and as a character, is just being a tad too out of the loop and too stupid about how to go about its business. As bad as it was, the silver lining is that there's plenty of room for improvement moving forward, in my opinion.
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May 15, 2017 02:55
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STAC Goat posted:I regret wading into this and officially say I have no grounds to decide what Asian Americans should or shouldn't find racist. But for whatever its worth Danny was minding his own business when Colleen put a dollar in his drinking cup and he only "accosted" her to give her her money back which is when he noticed the flier and her name. It was a little racist but like you pointed out, it started off with then both being a little eh and Colleen isn't socially the most graceful person either. Also the show and characters constantly point out what an idiot he is. The whole scene with the flyer is to show them meeting and that he's kind of an idiot and Colleen's reaction isn't to swoon but actually get annoyed with him for obvious reasons.
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May 15, 2017 04:25
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Guy Goodbody posted:He wasn't wearing shoes. A New Yorker was accosted by a strange shoeless man in ragged clothes. Also, at that point he literally was homeless and living in the park How dare she treat such a person with a modicum of kindness and charity, literally just as bad as racism IMO.
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May 15, 2017 04:32
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Colleen should have given Danny some Patacas and then yelled at him in Portuguese when he started speaking Mandarin to her.
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May 15, 2017 05:35
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Guy Goodbody posted:He wasn't wearing shoes. A New Yorker was accosted by a strange shoeless man in ragged clothes. Also, at that point he literally was homeless and living in the park Also, apparently all East Asians in New York City but that one couple running a Chinese restaurant in Luke Cage are gangsters or cultists. This is pretty impressive because, unlike the other Netflix shows, this one is actually supposed to be all about East Asian-based mystical martial arts.
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May 15, 2017 06:13
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Mars4523 posted:I guess it's not like the show does an amazing job of portraying Asian characters outside of that one scene. See Madame Gao suddenly being part of the Hand, which as far as we'd known before then was a mystical Japanese death cult. It's mixing up different flavors of East Asian into a bland amorphous paste because you're too lazy to tell Chinese triads apart from the Japanese Yakuza. Not sure what's so confusing about that. We've seen the Hand revealed to be a much more complex and multi-faceted organization than it was originally portrayed in Daredevil, with multiple factions that aren't necessarily friendly towards each other. There's a Japanese death cult component (led by Nobu), a Chinese drug manufacturing and smuggling component (led by Gao), pseudo-Asian youth re-education/brainwashing component (led by Bakuto), and probably many more. This is what you would expect from an ancient organization that presumably out-dates relatively modern cultures like China and Japan.
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May 15, 2017 06:41
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enraged_camel posted:Not sure what's so confusing about that. We've seen the Hand revealed to be a much more complex and multi-faceted organization than it was originally portrayed in Daredevil, with multiple factions that aren't necessarily friendly towards each other. There's a Japanese death cult component (led by Nobu), a Chinese drug manufacturing and smuggling component (led by Gao), pseudo-Asian youth re-education/brainwashing component (led by Bakuto), and probably many more. This is what you would expect from an ancient organization that presumably out-dates relatively modern cultures like China and Japan. There are no indications in Daredevil Season 1 that suggest that Madame Gao was affiliated with the Hand, and apparently going by the comics the Steel Serpent emblazoned on her heroin has precisely gently caress all to do with the Hand. Iron Fist's reveal that she is in fact a faction within the Hand screams of being the laziest retcon. The fact that Gao is Chinese and the Hand has been shown to be a cult of Japanese ninja raise red flags about depiction of East Asians.
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May 15, 2017 07:09
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The conflict with the Hand dates back millennia, like 10's of thousands of years ago. They're supposed to be this weird ancient beyond ancient organization that has existed since humans first started setting into towns. Current Japanese culture has its roots in dynasties starting less than 1500 years ago and while the first Chinese god-King dynasties existed around 4000 years ago, they're still outdated by the Hand (and ancient Egyptian, Persian/Sumerian/Babylonian, and Indian dynasties in any case).
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May 15, 2017 08:02
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Yeah, my interpretation of the Hand from the Defenders Series' is that while they were implied to be just some Japanese mob/cult in DD S1 they're actually something way bigger and more complicated than that. Like it seems like they're setting up for Sigourney Weaver to possibly be their boss in Defenders. So while Gao wasn't presented like she was part of Nobu's crew in DD S1 she was presented as having way more going on then she let on so I have no real problem accepting that she's Hand and was just doing something different then Nobu because they're deep and complicated like that. Like a simplistic breakdown could be that Gao was doing drugs and financing, Nobu was working on some mystical poo poo, and Bakuto was recruiting and maybe they were aware of each other the way VPs of a corporation are where they all have their own departments and all politic or want to cut each other's throats to get ahead. That's overly simplistic but its loosely how I'm making sense of The Hand's structure across the shows. Either way they're clearly not the fairly generic Japanese crime syndicate that they were presented as through much of DD S1. Stick said they were more than that and DD S2 and Iron Fist have born that out. So it doesn't bother me that Gao is part of it, retcon or otherwise. If a "retcon" doesn't contradict anything directly or crucially then I don't mind that writers wanted to change something as they went along through the years. Again, that's why I'm kind of interested for the Danny/Stick (and possibly Matt/Colleen) interaction in Defenders since it could give us some more depth to this whole Hand thing since both are sworn enemies coming from presumably different perspectives with different knowledge.
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May 15, 2017 08:15
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Remember in Iron Fist when Colleen thought she'd been working for the good guys for decades but she had been, in fact, working for the bad guys? That's the kind of quality we've come to expect from Dexter producer, Scott Buck. Edit : I mean, Jesus, the show attempts to handwave this by saying that not all the hand are as evil as Madam Gao's Hands, but then the other hand turn out to be just as, if not more evil than Gao anyway. So Colleen has been straight up training deathsploitaion ninjas for forever. How could you not notice something like that? "Hi little Johnny? What happened to Maxie?" "Oh he died on the last murder/kidnap mission, gotta go do some extortion, seeya aunty Colleen! Oh by the way don't open that door! That's where we do live organ harvest...er, blood transfusions." Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 10:58 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 10:50
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Spermanent Record posted:Remember in Iron Fist when Colleen thought she'd been working for the good guys for decades but she had been, in fact, working for the bad guys? Except that's precisely how cults operate. It's a combination of carefully nurtured deep cognitive dissonance and a taboo for questioning authority figures. From the moment someone is initiated, their impression of the Hand is an organization that takes in disenfranchised youth and provides them with shelter and training so they can succeed in life. This image is then reinforced by each member as everyone keeps each other in check. And whenever Colleen pushes a bit too hard or a bit too insistent, Bakuto's tone changes from friendly, fatherly sensei to "don't gently caress with me, remember who I am" and she is put in her place. It is only when the organization threatens someone she loves that the illusion shatters. Again this is textbook cult stuff, it has nothing to do with Dexter or Scott Buck.
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May 15, 2017 14:04
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McSpanky posted:How dare she treat such a person with a modicum of kindness and charity, literally just as bad as racism IMO. If you think about it denying white men the social privileges/deference that comes with being wealthy and/or white is the closest thing you can do to being racist towards whites.
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May 15, 2017 14:18
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Martha Stewart Undying posted:If you think about it denying white men the social privileges/deference that comes with being wealthy and/or white is the closest thing you can do to being racist towards whites. Go to Japan as a white person. Experience racism toward whites.
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May 15, 2017 14:30
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Sorry to deflate your burn, but I'm pretty sure this dude was talking about America, the country this piece of media is set in.
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May 15, 2017 15:37
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enraged_camel posted:Except that's precisely how cults operate. What even are nu-Hands goals? I can't remember them actually trying to ever do anything.
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May 15, 2017 15:53
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Strom Cuzewon posted:What even are nu-Hands goals? I can't remember them actually trying to ever do anything. Well, DDS1, they were trying to obtain a specific property DDS2, they had the big hole in the ground from which they apparently recovered the resurrection sarcophagus IF - Who the gently caress knows other than the fact we know the resurrection thing works
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May 15, 2017 17:24
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Other then trying to get Danny to join, Iron Fist mostly showed day to day operations. I guess Gao's super heroin is a new plan but that seemed like a step along the path more then anything else.
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May 15, 2017 17:32
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I imagine The Defenders is where the Master Plan is revealed.
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May 15, 2017 17:33
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flosofl posted:DDS2, they had the big hole in the ground from which they apparently recovered the resurrection sarcophagus Is that confirmed? I got the impression they weren't digging for something but to something, if that makes sense.
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May 15, 2017 17:35
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Toast Museum posted:Is that confirmed? I got the impression they weren't digging for something but to something, if that makes sense. Yeah, I may be making a big unwarranted assumption on that. The two may very well be unrelated and all we really know for sure is that the hole is a God drat Big and Deep Hole.
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May 15, 2017 17:37
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They need storage space for all of the bodies they are anticipating The Punisher to pile up 
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May 15, 2017 18:54
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Digging a tunnel to Asia to quickly transport more ninjas to NYC, obviously
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May 15, 2017 21:11
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Strom Cuzewon posted:What even are nu-Hands goals? I can't remember them actually trying to ever do anything. Bakuto's group was infiltrating society, placing people loyal to the Hand in positions of power like working for politicians and working at important locations like hospitals, police stations, and other things. Coleen believed her organization was taking the poor and vulnerable and helping them succeed. It was only later that she realized that the summer camp/technical college that she was sending her students to was actually an indoctrination camp. Having people in positions of power, authority, and importance is a pretty helpful thing. It lets you do things like sweep zombie ninja invasions of hospitals under the rug or lets you recapture anyone who evades you and looks for help. Bakuto is running a "soft power" wing of the Hand that makes it easier for other factions to do things like run drugs or Yakuza it up in Manhattan.
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May 15, 2017 21:16
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enraged_camel posted:Not sure what's so confusing about that. We've seen the Hand revealed to be a much more complex and multi-faceted organization than it was originally portrayed in Daredevil, with multiple factions that aren't necessarily friendly towards each other. There's a Japanese death cult component (led by Nobu), a Chinese drug manufacturing and smuggling component (led by Gao), pseudo-Asian youth re-education/brainwashing component (led by Bakuto), and probably many more. This is what you would expect from an ancient organization that presumably out-dates relatively modern cultures like China and Japan. The most important thing to realize here, okay, is that Hydra aren't Nazis, okay? /Marvel Light Gun Man posted:Digging a tunnel to Asia to quickly transport more ninjas to NYC, obviously Oscar The Grouch and Telly Monster actually did this in the 80's.
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May 15, 2017 23:19
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One of the least interesting parts of the rest of the Marvel stuff to me is Hydra, and the fact that Hydra has about a bazillion divisions and are actually responsible for literally every bad thing that's ever happen and you can soundly and thoroughly defeat them as many times as you like, they'll still be back in the next movie/a few more episodes/the next comic in some form. The Hand is the Hydra of Netflix. Also, the Hand came into existence a long time ago when they discovered the secret to eternal life (presumably the coffin), why would they be digging for it in New York?
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May 15, 2017 23:21
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:The most important thing to realize here, okay, is that Hydra aren't Nazis, okay? /Marvel lmao quoting Agent Coulson/Agents of Shield: "Remember, they're nazis. Every last one of em." edit: ah wasnt Coulson 
bring back old gbs fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 23:28
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I don't hate Iron Fist, but I do think there's a major disconnect between the quality of the show's ideas and the quality of execution. Like, I really appreciated showing the 'behind the scenes' of Hand operations -- it makes the DD Season 2 Ninja Flash-Mobs easier to believe in. I also liked what I think they were trying to do with Danny Rand's character, making him open and guileless as a contrast to the cynicism of the other Defenders. The problems imo are mostly in the execution.
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May 15, 2017 23:32
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bring back old gbs posted:lmao quoting Agent Coulson/Agents of Shield: Yeah, but the official line from Marvel is that they're not Nazis, omigawd you guys. The Hand, likewise, is an ancient society full of
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May 15, 2017 23:35
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