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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I always find statements like this super disappointing because it refuses to acknowledge peoples actual gripes based solely on the fact of "I don't want to hear anything negative about my favorite game." in a lot of cases. Great games can have flaws and bad games can have positives. People tend to ignore that fact and see it as a black and white thing.
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May 15, 2017 18:59
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Great games can have flaws and bad games can have positives. People tend to ignore that fact and see it as a black and white thing. I have played a bunch of games that I know are bad but will put way more time than I should into because they have a really awesome feature and I want to see where the devs took it. Weird MMOs that have been running for years and still have a niche community are usually good for this. In college I would spend vacations hunting out free to play MMOs and seeing all the weird systems that were good but tied to horrible systems that didn't complement them and bad the game overall terrible. For what breath of wild is it's a great game and further polishing would likely have needed another recode and the issues might not have been obvious until later. I'd rather have this than the game not be out for another year or two. There is room for another open world Zelda or even new IP that builds on the lessons from Breath of the Wild if they decide to go back to more traditional Zelda titles.
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May 15, 2017 19:07
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:BotW has some serious problems and it's a shame it's hard to hold a discussion about it because certain folks would rather pretend it's perfect. Seriously where the gently caress is tingle
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May 15, 2017 19:07
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Serious problems? I dunno if I agree with that, or we might have differing definitions of serious problems
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May 15, 2017 19:16
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tingle is loving dead man
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May 15, 2017 19:16
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LethalGeek posted:Serious problems? It's got a bunch of nagging annoyances that didn't stop a ton of good things from happening. Well serious in a subjective sense. For example a serious problem to me is the fact that after I finished Zora's Domain I never died again because the combat is really tame and boring. Every enemy in the game that isn't a miniboss feels like it's a sword and board user, and the two-3 things that aren't only have 1hp and ultra basic "slowly hover to the player" AI. Also the minibosses that are spread all over the world outside like one in the desert is just a variation of Talos or Hinnox and there's nothing really exciting past the first encounter with them. I also think the Divine Beasts were really lame and that all of the puzzles in them felt kind of samey in a "stand in one spot and just rotate a part back and forth until it's solved" kind of way. It doesn't help all of the bosses in the game were (to me) unremarkable and kind of lame to fight due to the "do whatever you want" first design philosophy. They just felt weaker and more pathetic as I got stronger and better gear which ultimately led to the final boss not even scratching me or doing damage because it was painfully straight-forward. There's the complaint about shrines that people try to handwave away with "Y-you don't HAVE to do all of them!" but I don't find that acceptable. If your answer to something being dull and repetitive like the shrines is to stop doing them or playing that means there's a problem with the game in my opinion. The fact that just about (if not half) of them are just the same exact combat trials or "you found the shrine- there is no puzzle surprise" means, to me again, that they should of probably cut down on the numbers and instead tried to make them more unique and interesting. Hell even then it would of gone a long way to have shrines in the Gorons made by actual gorons- like they're handmade trials for Link. Make the shrines look like rocks and have lava and bomb related puzzles up there. Have wide open shrines that look like nests or something in the Rito region. Personalize them a bit. Then there's the quest rewards always being rupee's or like, a nice steak dinner. I had 0 motivation to do any of the quests because the rewards just weren't worth it when I could just go snow bowling for 10 minutes and have more then what any quest could hope to give me. Like these are just a handful of examples from my playtime- I'm not saying that the game is bad or anything as clearly it's hitting it out of the park for some people- just for me it's kinda sad that this might be were the series is heading.
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May 15, 2017 19:19
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Tingle has joined his brothers in becoming a big rock. Those magic words were not actually for becoming a fairy.
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May 15, 2017 19:20
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[Edit: Whoops, you already replied to someone else]
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May 15, 2017 19:20
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I lost my entire day to Minecraft yesterday. Anybody else pick it up? I could use some advice on spicing up my fort's exits and it would be more fun to have someone wander around my world than post screenshots.
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May 15, 2017 19:38
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Every enemy in the game that isn't a miniboss feels like it's a sword and board user, and the two-3 things that aren't only have 1hp and ultra basic "slowly hover to the player" AI. Also the minibosses that are spread all over the world outside like one in the desert is just a variation of Talos or Hinnox and there's nothing really exciting past the first encounter with them. Did you feel this way about Zelda 1? Like, when you entered Level 8, did you go "Ugh, alright, ANOTHER Manhandla. Guess I'd better bomb the center AGAIN."? quote:I also think the Divine Beasts were really lame and that all of the puzzles in them felt kind of samey in a "stand in one spot and just rotate a part back and forth until it's solved" kind of way. It doesn't help all of the bosses in the game were (to me) unremarkable and kind of lame to fight due to the "do whatever you want" first design philosophy. They just felt weaker and more pathetic as I got stronger and better gear which ultimately led to the final boss not even scratching me or doing damage because it was painfully straight-forward. I feel like the general criticisms of the DBs are justified, but the complaint about the final boss is very much up there with someone saying that an RPG's final boss is too easy because they were overleveled and overequipped for it. The game is as easy or as hard as you want it to be, and that's kinda the point, I feel. quote:There's the complaint about shrines that people try to handwave away with "Y-you don't HAVE to do all of them!" but I don't find that acceptable. If your answer to something being dull and repetitive like the shrines is to stop doing them or playing that means there's a problem with the game in my opinion. The fact that just about (if not half) of them are just the same exact combat trials or "you found the shrine- there is no puzzle surprise" means, to me again, that they should of probably cut down on the numbers and instead tried to make them more unique and interesting. Half of the "you found the shrine- there is no puzzle surprise" shrines were found by solving puzzles, albeit usually very simple ones, and the trial by combat exercises are actually pretty exciting if you aren't going in with 80+ defense and dozens of full heals. Again, if you make the game really easy, then that's not really the fault of the game for giving you the option. And if you felt the combat was too tame and simple, then avoid combat or fight in a different way. That's all anyone can suggest, really. Also, I think having special Goron and Rita shrines would kind of defeat the purpose of the whole thing being Sheikah-related. Everything being so smooth and eerie adds a flair of mysticism. Adding a Goron aspect to a shrine would just require me to have Fire Resistance armor on all the time. quote:Then there's the quest rewards always being rupee's or like, a nice steak dinner. I had 0 motivation to do any of the quests because the rewards just weren't worth it when I could just go snow bowling for 10 minutes and have more then what any quest could hope to give me. BotW is very much "the journey, not the destination," and it sounds like you want extremely complicated quests and puzzles with extremely gratifying rewards. Most of the quests come from very normal people with very normal lives in very normal environments. If the prize for doing their yard work was the Zelda 1 Magical Sword, I would wonder why they're not the hero and I'm not the NPC. You do their quests, because you want to hear what they have to say, why they want whatever, and what they'll say when they've received their gift. Like, there's the guy in Tarrey Town that asks you to risk life and limb against Guardians for his amusement, and his reward is an overall minuscule amount of rupees because "lol get hosed." There's a special kind of emotional experience in that, and it gives the world character. quote:Like these are just a handful of examples from my playtime- I'm not saying that the game is bad or anything as clearly it's hitting it out of the park for some people- just for me it's kinda sad that this might be were the series is heading. I'm quite positive that the next Zelda won't be "BotW2: We Didn't Change Anything, " but if your concerns are "giving me lots of options is bad, because I will use them all, and if future games do the same, I will not enjoy Zelda anymore," then I think you just won't enjoy Zelda anymore. It seems like you really enjoyed the spectacle of the game but wanted it to constantly one-up itself, despite the entire concept of the game being "what you see is what you get, but you can do anything."
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May 15, 2017 19:39
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Well serious in a subjective sense. For example a serious problem to me is the fact that after I finished Zora's Domain I never died again because the combat is really tame and boring. Those are mostly subjective, though? Like it's fine that you didn't like BotW, because tastes are subjective. But don't come out with "People ignore obvious flaws" and then list subjective poo poo. Yeah, there are issues with BotW. The grass is pretty, but the framerate suuuuuucks because of it. It doesn't have any dungeons. Those are actual issues. [Edit: the game even has solutions to your issues, too. "The enemies are too easy". Ok, so strip down Link to his boxer briefs and fight only using sticks and leaves!] asecondduck fucked around with this message at 19:46 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 19:39
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Well serious in a subjective sense. For example a serious problem to me is the fact that after I finished Zora's Domain I never died again because the combat is really tame and boring. I could have just run into mobs and Spin to Win as others said, I had way more fun sneaking up on them and taking them all out like it was MGS for the simple fact that it was harder and amused me. Also there is no way to really fix the last boss being easy when the entire point of all the stuff before it is to get stupid strong and trash him, that's just open world games at all. Hell that's nearly all the Zeldas. LTTP if you got the red armor and max Master Sword, both things you can miss, Ganon in that game was still a push over because at worse you throw your body at the problem until he dies. I get why people are a bit annoyed that they don't have some crafted thing presented to them to do in order but holy hell after 20 years of that it was DULL. Painfully even. It was great to have something that was way more of a game IMO. Sure make the 4 main dungeon looking things longer and make shrines a little more involved next time cause those are fun things but those were whatever to the 100s of little fun things I got to do.
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May 15, 2017 19:46
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You're allowed to think Zelda is not amazing, but you also have to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of people disagree with you and will consider it GOTY, best Zelda, or even among their favorite games of all time (me included). So there is gonna be pushback against (even perfectly valid) criticisms that no one asked for. Like, way more people prefer BOTW to all previous Zelda's since... OOT? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wind Waker was not as well received initially and LBW just didn't have the sheer amount of hype/praise. Not that popular opinion is a reliable indicator of quality, but there has to be a point where overwhelming consensus among fans and critics means something, right?
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May 15, 2017 19:46
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Drunk Tomato posted:You're allowed to think Zelda is not amazing, but you also have to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of people disagree with you and will consider it GOTY, best Zelda, or even among their favorite games of all time (me included). So there is gonna be pushback against (even perfectly valid) criticisms that no one asked for. BotW is not the end-all-be-all video game that some people claim it is, but I don't think it's fair to say an aspect of the game is lackluster because you missed the point. Like, imagine the complaint that Journey on PS4 is boring because it has no combat. It is technically a valid complaint, because it does indeed have no combat, which some players might find boring, but that's not the point of Journey.
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May 15, 2017 19:54
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Its an 85/100. Thanks for consulting me the arbiter of taste.
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May 15, 2017 19:58
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Takoluka posted:Did you feel this way about Zelda 1? Like, when you entered Level 8, did you go "Ugh, alright, ANOTHER Manhandla. Guess I'd better bomb the center AGAIN."? Too lazy to break it up like you did (sorry) but gamer truth, I never finished Zelda 1. I got bored with it pretty fast and wasn't having a lot of fun playing it so take that for what you will. The final boss without going into spoilers wasn't much of me being overleveled or anything- it literally never hit me. It's attacks were super slow and hyper telegraphed and I could parry it with 0 effort despite the fact I've never used parry in the game before then. I just walloped it and it was done. Then there's the second form that stands still in the middle of a field and just... there's enough complaints about that floating around at this point I shouldn't have to talk about it. There were no teeth in the game. The combat shrines to me weren't really fun or exciting outside the first one because it's the same enemy every time- after you know their pattern there's no deviation from it. They all use the same weapons (or shield) and at a certain hp limit they all do the "quick hide behind something" gimmick, followed by the beam whirlwind and if they're still alive they charge the beam up to fire. It's always those 4 things in that order. As for the "you found it congrats!" ones, a lot were basically just stamina or heart checks (skull lakes one being a stand out) or just "can you walk in a circle while holding a ball?" which... isn't really that involving or satisfying either. I'm not trying to make a point that they're all bad, just that they tend to be repetitive. I know the whole story reason that Shiekah made the shrines but it still would of been nice- how hard would it of been to add a line saying "Shiekah needed the help of Gorons to put shrines in the most intensive areas of the volcano" and leave it at that? Like I said have puzzles up there involve directing lava flow with your tablet powers or bombing certain rocks or using gems to open doors. Have a lot of swimming challenges and cryostasis puzzles in the Zora region. Mix it up so it's not the same sterile voidscapes that they are now. The problem with the journey aspect (to me) was that the journey wasn't that fun or involving. I liked being able to climb around and I genuinely think that the overworld is amazing and fun- just that the stuff inhabiting it are kind of dull and forgettable. Maybe it's the sheer amount of them but the NPC's in towns never really grabbed me as a lot of them looked like obvious throwbacks (like the dye shop guy) or they looked like they were made in mii maker in a few seconds. Like I can recall Kass, Paya, Robbie, the -Sons and Impa but everyone else is just kinda... there. (Oh and Sidon, just recalled him) The stuff I want from Zelda is a escalating challenge, none of the games are super hard or anything but something that feels like it's trying to keep up with the player to some extent- not just of "the same enemies you've fought all game get 1 more hp" types of balancing. When I play Zelda games I want fun gizmos to use and dungeon items that offer a new wrinkle to gameplay (even if they're not all winners). I want to see long themed dungeons that have more than 3 enemies in them, with bosses that are harder than a sneeze. It's stuff that BotW just didn't deliver on to me. lelandjs posted:Those are mostly subjective, though? Well yeah, I tried to correct myself and say it was subjective at the start  .
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May 15, 2017 19:58
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I think the thing about BotW that throws off people is that a huge part of the game is what you do with it. Look at Dunkey's video of the game. That game? What's he's playing is a loving blast because of all the crazy poo poo he's doing. I didn't even do half of the crazy poo poo that he's doing and I still had a blast. If you just go around the game poking at Bokens with swords that's like... I dunno, man.
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May 15, 2017 20:00
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Please wait a year before presenting hot takes to BotW
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May 15, 2017 20:00
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Zelder posted:Serious problems? I dunno if I agree with that, or we might have differing definitions of serious problems I think the only serious problem BOTW has is with replayability, there's a ton to do but none of it is really fun enough to want to do again, for me anyway. I'd love to replay the game somewhere down the line but I don't see myself caring about doing any of the shrines again but they're tied to health/stamina upgrades and you almost need them unless you're going to do a challenge run. Also most of the side quests are uninteresting, the rewards suck, lead to shrines and they're all given by weak, one dimensional characters. Helping said characters never changes the world in anyway which is lame.
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May 15, 2017 20:01
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s.i.r.e. posted:I think the only serious problem BOTW has is with replayability, there's a ton to do but none of it is really fun enough to want to do again, for me anyway. I'd love to replay the game somewhere down the line but I don't see myself caring about doing any of the shrines again but they're tied to health/stamina upgrades and you almost need them unless you're going to do a challenge run. Also most of the side quests are uninteresting, the rewards suck, lead to shrines and they're all given by weak, one dimensional characters. Helping said characters never changes the world in anyway which is lame. That's why I didn't do all the shrines, I can find new ones when I reply it on hard.
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May 15, 2017 20:02
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They'll be stale takes by then
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May 15, 2017 20:03
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s.i.r.e. posted:I think the only serious problem BOTW has is with replayability, there's a ton to do but none of it is really fun enough to want to do again, for me anyway. I'd love to replay the game somewhere down the line but I don't see myself caring about doing any of the shrines again but they're tied to health/stamina upgrades and you almost need them unless you're going to do a challenge run. Also most of the side quests are uninteresting, the rewards suck, lead to shrines and they're all given by weak, one dimensional characters. Helping said characters never changes the world in anyway which is lame. Oh man I think you might have missed one of the best parts of the game. [Edit: Did you buy the house? You reaaaaaaaally should have bought the house.] asecondduck fucked around with this message at 20:06 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 20:03
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I'm going to replay the entire game in hard mode and I can't wait to do so.
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May 15, 2017 20:03
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Real hurthling! posted:Its an 85/100. 8.9/10, too much water (falling from the sky)
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May 15, 2017 20:04
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I thought hard mode would be "link now has to eat food periodically or he'll starve to death" and other survival game stuff but it sounds just like stat inflation on enemies
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May 15, 2017 20:08
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I didn't even think about BotW in terms of replayability because almost no Zelda games have been "replayable" per se. Worth revisiting a few years down the line? Absolutely. I replayed ALBW before BotW dropped. But they aren't replayable in the same way that, say... Actually I'm having a really hard time thinking of a game that I would consider replayable, besides rougelikes like Binding of Issac where replaying it is the point.
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May 15, 2017 20:09
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Lakbay posted:Please wait a year before presenting hot takes to BotW Bu-but the clicks 
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May 15, 2017 20:09
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I have to wonder a ton when people say this game was too easy when it killed me more times than every other Zelda game combined has over the course of my lifetime three times over if I had to guess. That first time you see a not red Moblin with a sword it's all oh sweet I'm going to murder him and take that sweet sword. Then you do no real damage and they one shot you.
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May 15, 2017 20:09
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Kirios posted:I'm going to replay the entire game in hard mode and I can't wait to do so. 
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May 15, 2017 20:13
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LethalGeek posted:I have to wonder a ton when people say this game was too easy when it killed me more times than every other Zelda game combined has over the course of my lifetime three times over if I had to guess. Right? I constantly got my poo poo pushed in throughout the game, it was only at the end when I had enough hearts to wrap around to a second line that I wasn't constantly pausing and diving for food. But maybe I'm bad at videogames.
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May 15, 2017 20:13
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LethalGeek posted:I have to wonder a ton when people say this game was too easy when it killed me more times than every other Zelda game combined has over the course of my lifetime three times over if I had to guess. For me it was just that flurry rush was ultra easy to trigger and after fighting a bokoblin like 1000 times it kinda became easy to know exactly what it was going to do. Then the game just throws those same enemies at you with the only modifier being "they have more hp" and it doesn't really get harder- just more tedious because you're still fighting the same thing you've done dozens of times at this point. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 20:22 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 20:13
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Zelda is good ok!
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May 15, 2017 20:13
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To stay more on topic portable MK8 is god drat amazing. I would say the extra time in the multiplayer map selection between rounds is nice cause I don't have to rush to the bathroom and back like I used to on the Wii U version but now I just take the whole drat thing with me Playing in bed for a little before going to sleep was also sweet.
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May 15, 2017 20:14
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:For me it was just that flurry rush was ultra easy to trigger and after fighting a bokoblin like 1000 times it kinda became easy to know exactly what it was going to do. Then the game just throws those same enemies at you with the only modifier being "they have more hp" and it doesn't really get harder- just more tedious because you're still fighting the same thing you've done dozens of times at this point. You know you can just ride by them on the horse and ignore them right?
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May 15, 2017 20:14
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I'll absolutely want to replay BOTW down the line when all the DLC is out because it's just fun to control Link and the combat is great. Saying it's too easy is insane when it's easily the hardest Zelda since Zelda 2. 100+ hours in and it never stops being satisfying to throw my almost broken sword right in a moblin's face. SeANMcBAY fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 15, 2017 |
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May 15, 2017 20:16
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I died a lot in Zelda before it really hit me how important armor (and upgrading it) plays into staying alive. Once I upgraded some beefy armor (I think it was the soldier set) and actually remembered to switch to it for fights I stopped dying / burning through fairies and mipha's grace.
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May 15, 2017 20:17
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Neddy Seagoon posted:e3's gonna be the real factor over whether it's actually dying out this year or not. It's still got some legs on it for a while though, just for being relatively cheap compared to a Switch and having a pretty good-sized library available. I never thought they would support two portable devices and sold my 3DS long ago, now I'm not so sure. I'm interested in Fire Emblem: Echoes, Monster Hunter Stories, Culdcept Revolt and maybe Ever Oasis. So if there's anything new at E3 I'll probably pick up a 2DSXL.
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May 15, 2017 20:19
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Yeah I'm at three upgrades wearing level three champion tunic, soldiers helmet, soldiers leggings and I can pretty much face tank anything. I can only imagine what the fourth upgrade is like.
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May 15, 2017 20:19
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pixaal posted:That's why I didn't do all the shrines, I can find new ones when I reply it on hard. Same. Also, I did a limited run, (need to grab a certain shield and then have a final go at the last boss) because I haven't bought a switch yet. Looking forward to replaying it this summer on the switch.
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May 15, 2017 20:22
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PPT adventure mode keeps throwing me into swap battles. The only way I can figure out how to beat them is to just copy the AI in puyo mode. When they start their chain, I counter with the same chain. Then I try to beat them in tetris. It seems like Tetris mode is shorter though. In this recent one, I lucked into a 3 or 4 chain and they died after it swapped to tetris.
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May 15, 2017 20:22
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