UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Jedit posted:

And is also a mind game played by the Invisibles, in case you hadn't noticed.

I read it years ago as separate graphic novels but recently bought it as one giant tome. Big mistake, the thing is borderline unreadable and unwieldy. Should have just got the collection that's divided into three parts.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:15

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# ? May 17, 2024 02:55

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

OzyMandrill posted:

If the manifesto has everything costed, then where is the 'more borrowing' dogwhistle coming from?

They commit to borrowing 250bn

# ? May 16, 2017 12:15

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

I just saw andrew neil give an interview with a tory about wage inequality and not only was it not an easy hand beezy for the tory, neil actually turned the screws a fair bit. Shocked. Can't see it on youtube yet but it's worth a look if you can find it on facehook.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:17

Undead Hippo: Jun 2, 2013

OzyMandrill posted:

If the manifesto has everything costed, then where is the 'more borrowing' dogwhistle coming from?

The costing document explicitly says that there will be �250 billion borrowed, to set up a national investment bank with a focus on infrastructure and development. A good thing that almost couldn't help but pay for itself in long term growth, but one that the Tories will spin out as "Running up the national credit card".

# ? May 16, 2017 12:17

Pissflaps: Oct 20, 2002; by VideoGames

OzyMandrill posted:

If the manifesto has everything costed, then where is the 'more borrowing' dogwhistle coming from?

The infrastructure investment and nationalisation programme?

(It's not fully costed).

# ? May 16, 2017 12:17

Breath Ray: Nov 19, 2010

Ewan posted:

They commit to continuing HS2, and further rail developments (electrification, etc) in the manifesto

Thats a shame. But they can still reassign civil servants from somewhere. Course they'll need some consultants on 200k a year but not sure you would expect to see that level of detail in a manifesto

# ? May 16, 2017 12:20

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

All those spare civil servants gambolling around the hills worry-free during the Brexit days sure.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:22

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

Newspapers should be coming out soon-ish with formal "who we are supporting"? The Times is particularly interesting to me, as they don't hold back from critical anti Tory posts and have in the past (most recently 2005) supported Labour. FT often seems anti Con recently too, although I would suspect they'd tend towards Lib Dem.

2015:
Express: UKIP
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab
Sun: Con
Times: Con
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lib Dem
FT: Con

My predictions:
Express: Con
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab (already declared)
Sun: Con
Times: Con or Lib Dem
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lab
FT: Lib Dem

# ? May 16, 2017 12:22

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

OzyMandrill posted:

If the manifesto has everything costed, then where is the 'more borrowing' dogwhistle coming from?

As other have pointed out - the manifesto and costing both explicitly say they will be borrowing for investment. Whether or not you think this is a good thing - it renders what Laura K said factually true.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:24

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Ewan posted:

Newspapers should be coming out soon-ish with formal "who we are supporting"? The Times is particularly interesting to me, as they don't hold back from critical anti Tory posts and have in the past (most recently 2005) supported Labour. FT often seems anti Con recently too, although I would suspect they'd tend towards Lib Dem.

2015:
Express: UKIP
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab
Sun: Con
Times: Con
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lib Dem
FT: Con

My predictions:
Express: Con
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab (already declared)
Sun: Con
Times: Con or Lib Dem
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lab
FT: Lib Dem

The Times went red because Murdoch thought Blair was his buddy.

Until he found out he was loving his wife.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:27

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

jBrereton posted:

Every G8 member has seen some form of austerity in the last decade because of a consensus, wrong-headed though it may be, among the policy-setting classes.

I'm not going to bother reframing this article, as if I just figured it out myself.

Britain (well, the tories, supported by the right-wing press) has maintained an aberrant fixation with austerity that can in no way be called a "consensus" opinion, either in Britain, or in the rest of the world. It is bullshit. Austerity is an utterly discredited economic policy for a country like the UK, and has been for years now. It's only on this backward island that we still talk about it seriously, and it's beyond belief..

# ? May 16, 2017 12:27

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

Owen Jones is a big fan

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/labour-manifesto-left-election-social-democracy

I've not seen him gushing this much in a long time

# ? May 16, 2017 12:30

number one pta fan: Sep 6, 2011; my work is my play play
every day pay day

It's a dizzying thrill to have a Labour Party I think I'd be happy to defend with a straight face. I can't wait to watch them lose by a smaller margin than widely predicted.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:30

Noxville: Dec 7, 2003

Ewan posted:

Newspapers should be coming out soon-ish with formal "who we are supporting"? The Times is particularly interesting to me, as they don't hold back from critical anti Tory posts and have in the past (most recently 2005) supported Labour. FT often seems anti Con recently too, although I would suspect they'd tend towards Lib Dem.

2015:
Express: UKIP
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab
Sun: Con
Times: Con
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lib Dem
FT: Con

My predictions:
Express: Con
Mail: Con
Mirror: Lab (already declared)
Sun: Con
Times: Con or Lib Dem
Telegraph: Con
Guardian: Lab
Independent: Lab
FT: Lib Dem

The Guardian will be liberals because they're a festering pool of turds and they've supported them a lot in the past too.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:38

haakman: May 5, 2011

It's a good manifesto for Further Education.

It's a shame that Labour are going to crash and burn because too many people are 'economically anxious'.

Also the culture of reflexivity in the UK is death to any economic policy which doesn't follow 'common sense', man on the street intuition about the economy.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:41

peanut-: Feb 17, 2004; Fun Shoe

I like this manifesto, but I did laugh that Labour's grand plan for Scotland is to have an investigation into the miners' strike. Finger on the pulse there guys.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:47

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

peanut- posted:

I like this manifesto, but I did laugh that Labour's grand plan for Scotland is to have an investigation into the miners' strike. Finger on the pulse there guys.

A lot of the things in the manifesto (higher education, taxes) are devolved to Scotland and Labour broadly supports devolved powers, so there's not really many specific policies they can "announce".

# ? May 16, 2017 12:48

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

I like the manifesto.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:49

Firos: Apr 30, 2007; Staying abreast of the latest developments in jam communism

Gonzo McFee posted:

I like the manifesto.

hosed up if true OP.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:50

Gonzo McFee: Jun 19, 2010

Firos posted:

hosed up if true OP.

It's better than the one the tories leaked about pictures of dogs having sex.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:52

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Oberleutnant posted:

I'm not going to bother reframing this article, as if I just figured it out myself.

Britain (well, the tories, supported by the right-wing press) has maintained an aberrant fixation with austerity that can in no way be called a "consensus" opinion, either in Britain, or in the rest of the world. It is bullshit. Austerity is an utterly discredited economic policy for a country like the UK, and has been for years now. It's only on this backward island that we still talk about it seriously, and it's beyond belief..

There's an awful lot of words and very few numbers in that article. Here's my take:

The current US government has talked a big game on austerity while also preparing to borrow trillions more.

The current UK government and future one will do the same. It has the same patchy austerity as the US, where infrastructure spending is going to go up but social/local govt. spending collapses despite increased need.

We all know about Merkel's love of austerity, but fuckboi neolib Martin Schulz has indicated nothing will change if he's the new chancellor either (link).

Macron's France is set to reduce government debt and lay off tens or hundreds of thousands of civil servants. That was in his manifesto.

The PRC is apparently engaging in austerity in an attempt to control its public finances, even though they don't matter at all. See here.

Russia has had big spending cuts and has tanned the Reserve Fund in an unsustainable way to even match that.

I don't disagree with you that it doesn't appear to make much sense, but it is factually inaccurate to claim that it isn't happening today.

# ? May 16, 2017 12:54

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

It really upsets me that Dugdale is probably going to keep her job so that the Labour right keep another spot on the NEC

Scottish Labour are a loving waste

# ? May 16, 2017 12:54

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

That's a loving great manifesto, and it breaks my heart that it'll never be realised.

# ? May 16, 2017 13:00

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Jedit posted:

And is also a mind game played by the Invisibles, in case you hadn't noticed.

...good enough excuse fr me to re-read it.

# ? May 16, 2017 13:17

Paperhouse: Dec 31, 2008; I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side

Ewan posted:

Owen Jones is a big fan

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/labour-manifesto-left-election-social-democracy

I've not seen him gushing this much in a long time

The comments are loving depressing

# ? May 16, 2017 13:18

Intrinsic Field Marshal: Sep 6, 2014; by SA Support Robot

Regarde Aduck posted:

So the guardian is slowly going overtly pro Tory? Cool, cool cool cool.

something rotten in the state of the guardian

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-03-03/hsbc-and-the-sham-of-guardians-scott-trust/

quote:

HSBC and the sham of Guardian�s Scott Trust
When I and others accuse the British media of systematic and consistent bias in favour of corporate power, and point out that the media is structurally part of that system of corporate power, we typically receive emails from readers arguing that not all parts of the media are subject to such pressures. Britain, we are told, is privileged to have two �liberal� media outlets, the BBC and Guardian, that are seen either as neutral or as a leftwing counterbalance to the rightwing agenda of the rest of the media.

Occasionally, it is also claimed that Britain�s media regulator, Ofcom, is there to prevent bias, ensuring that minimum standards of objectivity are maintained in news coverage.

Here are three illuminating articles and a short video that should help to dispel any such illusions about a healthy and diverse British media. Rather, the media in the UK is embedded in the corporate world, and therefore incapable of fulfilling its self-declared role as watchdog against abuses by the powerful.

The first article, by Glenn Greenwald, shows how Ofcom is just another tool of the British state to intimidate and exclude any voices, such as broadcasters RT and Iran�s PressTV, that might provide a narrative that challenges the official London-Washington consensus on world events. Ofcom has just announced yet another investigation of RT for �bias�. RT is not even allowed to discuss the case while it is being investigated. Greenwald points out:

All of this underscores the propagandistic purpose of touting �media objectivity� versus �bias.� The former simply does not exist. Revealingly, it is British journalists themselves who are most vocal in demanding that Her Majesty�s Government bar RT from broadcasting on �bias� grounds: fathom how authoritarian a society must be if it gets its journalists to play the leading role in demanding that the state ban (or imprison) journalists it dislikes. So notably, the most vocal among the anti-RT crowd on the ground that it spreads lies and propaganda � such as Nick Cohen [of the Observer] and Oliver Kamm [of the London Times] � were also the most aggressive peddlers of the pro-U.K.-government conspiracy theories and lies that led to the Iraq War. �

This is about nothing more than ensuring that Western citizens are not exposed to the side of The Enemy. � Western countries love to depict citizens of their long list of adversaries as being propagandized � whether it be China, Iran, Russia, North Korea, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Syria, Venezuela, Ecuador, etc. etc. � even as they themselves work in all sorts of ways to ban their own citizens from exposure to those adversaries� views.
The second, by Seumas Milne, reviews a new book offering a history of the BBC through the difficult years when Margaret Thatcher waged a relentless assault against its supposed left-wing politics. Milne notes that in the years before Thatcher�s interference the BBC�s programming was in some ways more liberal than it is today, but even so:

The corporation was always an establishment institution, deeply embedded in the security state and subject to direct government control in an emergency. The sexism at the BBC, as Seaton recounts, was appalling, as in many other workplaces, and ethnic diversity non-existent. Around 40% of the staff were vetted by MI5: those who failed the �political reliability� test, often for the mildest of radical connections, were blacklisted � their personnel files marked with the symbol of a Christmas tree. To give a flavour of the relationship, one broadcaster still well-known today had to be brought home from a foreign posting in the 1980s after BBC management became alarmed that his relationship with MI6 was becoming too overt.
Thatcher lost no time in sacking the BBC�s director-general, Milne�s father, and bringing into the BBC the new corporate boardroom culture she was cultivating throughout the economy. With it, the BBC became even more politically obedient than it already was:

Once the government had demonstrated it could not only manipulate the licence fee to ensure BBC compliance, but summarily dispatch its leadership at barely one remove, what BBC director general or chair would do anything but bend the knee or jump ship? That is what happened in 2004, after a report by a tame judge into the death of the weapons expert David Kelly and BBC reporting of government deceit over the Iraq war led not to the fall of ministers or officials � but the resignation of the chairman and director general of the BBC. �

Two decades on, in a symbolic mark of its creeping corporate capture, the latest BBC trust chair, Rona Fairhead, has become embroiled in the tax dodging scandal that has engulfed HSBC, of which she is also a non-executive director.
Finally, Nafeez Ahmed, an investigative reporter fired by the Guardian for his work exposing the connection between Israel�s attacks on Gaza and its interests in Gaza�s natural resources, exposes the sham of the Guardian�s Scott Trust.

In the first 12 mins of the video below, he talks to RT�s Going Underground about the Trust and the reasons for his sacking � maybe this interview will offer Ofcom yet more grounds for banning RT from Britain�s airwaves.

Even more important is his latest lengthy, wide-ranging and crowd-funded investigation into how the HSBC bank and the City are deeply implicated in money-laundering the proceeds of globalised crime, and how that same financial sector has captured not only Britain�s political elites but also the entire British media. Yes, the entire media, including the Guardian, which has been lauded for its recent revelations about the corrupt practices of HSBC�s Swiss arm.

Ahmed points out, however, that the Guardian has very much pulled its punches on fraudulent practices by HSBC in the UK. A whistleblower, Nicholas Wilson, has spent years trying to publicise the overcharging of British shoppers, some 600,000 of them, of quite astounding sums totalling �1 billion in debt collection charges through their credit cards. HSBC has been at the heart of this mass fraud.

According to Ahmed, almost every major British investigative team, including the Guardian, has got close to publication and then spiked the story for unexplained reasons. The regulatory authorities admit that HSBC has lied about its practices and that there are grounds for suspecting that fraud on an enormous scale has occurred but they have refused to investigate further, saying such action would be �disproportionate�. The reason, he argues, is that:

London, even more than Wall Street, is the world�s finance capital, harbouring most of the global economy�s international transactions, and therefore holding 400% more money than Britain�s entire GDP. A significant quantity of this money � �many hundreds of billions of pounds� worth � is from the criminal economy and laundered through UK banks and their subsidiaries. As [financial sector campaigner Joel] Benjamin said: �What the British government cannot tell the public is that the current growth model for the UK economy revolves around the endorsement and protection of financial sector fraud.�

The exposure of HSBC�s fraud in Britain could fundamentally jeopardise both the bank�s domestic and US operations.
In other words, politically and economically, HSBC is too big to fail. And for that reason it is well-protected by the corporate media. The HSBC has done more than any other bank to ensure its friends are embedded in the very senior echelons of the political and media class. Note, as Milne observes above, that the BBC Trust is headed by Rona Fairhead. Here�s Fairhead�s CV, according to Ahmed:

Fairhead is currently chair of HSBC�s North America Holdings, and was chair of the audit and risk committee when HSBC was fined by US authorities for money-laundering. Some of the fraud exposed in the Swiss leaks occurred during her watch on the committee. Before her government nomination to the BBC, Fairhead was appointed a British Business Ambassador by Prime Minister David Cameron. Prior to that, she had been a non-executive board director for the UK Cabinet Office under the coalition government.
The Guardian is no less in bed with HSBC, as Ahmed details. Recently, Peter Oborne, formerly of Britain�s Daily Telegraph, revealed that his newspaper spiked HSBC stories to avoid losing ad revenue. The Guardian is even more dependent on income from HSBC than the Telegraph.

During the Treasury Select Committee meeting on 15th February, it emerged that the newspaper that styles itself as the world�s �leading liberal voice� happens to be the biggest recipient of HSBC advertising revenue: bigger even than the Telegraph. � User growth permitted a dramatic increase in advertising revenues: �Revenues from US operations more than doubled on the previous 12-month period, reflecting advertising demand and sponsorship deals with partners such as HSBC, Netflix and Airbnb.�
According to the Guardian�s supporters, the benevolent Scott Trust acts as a buffer against commercial pressures, guaranteeing the Guardian�s editorial independence and its liberal-left credentials. Ahmed throws cold water on that theory:

The Guardian is not owned by a trust at all. In 2008, �the trust was replaced with a limited company� that was accordingly re-named �The Scott Trust Limited.� Though not a trust at all, but simply a profit-making company, it is still referred to frequently as �The Scott Trust,� promulgating the widely-held but mistaken belief in the Guardian�s inherently benign ownership structure. � The problem, of course, is that the Guardian functions under the same sort of corporate structure as any other major media company.
Ahmed details that the Scott Trust board members have deep ties to HSBC. Consider, for example, board member Anthony Salz�s CV, care of Ahmed:

a senior investment banker and executive vice chairman of Rothschild, and a director at NM Rothschild and Sons. He was a key legal adviser to Guinness during the notorious share-rigging scandal, helped Rupert Murdoch form BSkyB, and was vice chair of the BBC�s Board of Governors before it was replaced by the BBC Trust. He was also lead non-executive director of the board at the Department for Education under arch-neoconservative Michael Gove. Until 2006, Salz led a highly successful 30 year career as a corporate lawyer at Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer, where he was head and senior managing partner since 1996.

One of Freshfield�s most prominent long-term clients is HSBC. In 2012, Salz�s former firm was appointed to advise HSBC on its record $1.9 billion fine from US authorities for money-laundering, regarding its UK law implications. Although that occurred well after Salz�s time, HSBC�s relationship with Freshfields had been consolidated under Salz�s tenure shortly before he left, establishing an advisory monopoly on much of HSBC�s corporate work in Asia, and displacing the rival firm Norton Rose as HSBC�s advisor of choice.
I strongly recommend you take the time out to read Ahmed�s report in full.

Whistleblower Nicholas Wilson is now trying to crowd-fund a legal action against HSBC that might finally bring its practices to light. It�s a sad indictment of our political rulers, legal authorities and �free press� that our only, slim hope of holding those in power to account is through crowd-funded journalism and crowd-funded court cases.

It is typical evasion from Rusbridger. First, he admits that the Scott Trust Ltd is not a charity, but nonetheless insists it acts �like a trust�. One wonders then why the Guardian didn�t leave it as a trust. Why change it into a limited company, if it�s only role is to be a trust?

Second, what makes the Scott Trust Ltd different from other corporate media organisations � as we keep being told by its staff, including columnists like George Monbiot and Owen Jones � if, as Rusbridger claims, its board members� strong ties to corporations like HSBC are irrelevant to understanding its influence on the Guardian? Why are the Trust board members, deeply embedded in the corporate culture, any different from other corporate media chief executives? It seems Rusbridger is in deep denial.

# ? May 16, 2017 13:23

Spuckuk: Aug 11, 2009; Being a bastard works

Paperhouse posted:

The comments are loving depressing

Never read the comments in anything, it's like quoting Pissflaps, no good can come of it.

# ? May 16, 2017 13:32

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:

something rotten in the state of the guardian

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-03-03/hsbc-and-the-sham-of-guardians-scott-trust/

Stopped reading when RT and Iran's PressTV were referred to as legitimate news sources, can you give a tl;dr?

# ? May 16, 2017 13:36

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

I think Corb's policy guys are really good and I hope they can stay on in some capacity.

# ? May 16, 2017 13:40

fridge corn: Apr 2, 2003; NO MERCY, ONLY PAIN

GaussianCopula posted:

Stopped reading when RT and Iran's PressTV were referred to as legitimate news sources, can you give a tl;dr?

Lmao

# ? May 16, 2017 13:53

Jrbg: May 20, 2014

jBrereton posted:

There's an awful lot of words and very few numbers in that article. Here's my take:

This is a lot of pedantry to defend an analysis that was vague and misleading. Consensus - among whom? More taxation - in what way?

Also lol that economics can only be talked about in terms of numbers and graphs

# ? May 16, 2017 14:08

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

J_RBG posted:

This is a lot of pedantry to defend an analysis that was vague and misleading. Consensus - among whom? More taxation - in what way?

Also lol that economics can only be talked about in terms of numbers and graphs

Human beings are nothing but fuel to be fed into the gaping maw of the furnace that is THE DEFICIT

# ? May 16, 2017 14:11

Mega Comrade: Apr 22, 2004; Listen buddy, we all got problems!

So if Labour won and scrapped tuition fees, what would happen to my current �30k+ student debt? Just a 'sorry you went to Uni at a bad time" ? Or would there be some kind of retroactive scrap of debt also.

# ? May 16, 2017 14:15

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

Mega Comrade posted:

So if Labour won and scrapped tuition fees, what would happen to my current �30k+ student debt? Just a 'sorry you went to Uni at a bad time" ? Or would there be some kind of retroactive scrap of debt also.

the costing hasn't been leaked along with the manifesto, so we don't know the details

however most conventional analyses assume that existing debt is unaffected, as finding change behind the cushions to patch up �30 billion in extant loans would raise eyebrows

# ? May 16, 2017 14:23

Ewan: Sep 29, 2008; Ewan is tired of his reputation as a serious Simon. I'm more of a jokester than you people think. My real name isn't even Ewan, that was a joke it's actually MARTIN! LOL fooled you again, it really is Ewan! Look at that monkey with a big nose, Ewan is so random! XD

ronya posted:

the costing hasn't been leaked along with the manifesto, so we don't know the details

however most conventional analyses assume that existing debt is unaffected, as finding change behind the cushions to patch up �30 billion in extant loans would raise eyebrows

ehh? both costing and manifesto have been officially published...

# ? May 16, 2017 14:35

ronya: Nov 8, 2010; I'm the normal one.

You hate ridden fucks will regret your words when you eventually grow up.

Peace.

I admit to not having read the papers today

# ? May 16, 2017 14:38

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

Im pretty sure they aren't touching existing debt

# ? May 16, 2017 14:39

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

J_RBG posted:

This is a lot of pedantry to defend an analysis that was vague and misleading.

How the gently caress is it vague and misleading to suggest that the G8 is Doing Austerity, which they obviously are, and that this is because of a consensus, which their collective following of austerity policy would inherently suggest is true?

# ? May 16, 2017 14:39

kustomkarkommando: Oct 22, 2012

I'm sure Khan is probably spitting bullets about the expansion of stamp duty into derivatives.

Personally not sure post-Macron's victory and with an EU exit looming its wise to push for a more robust unilateral Tobin tax tbh

Edit: I mean it sounds good and the principle is sound, just a case of possible bad timing really

# ? May 16, 2017 14:41

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# ? May 17, 2024 02:55

Scikar: Nov 20, 2005; 5? Seriously?

jBrereton posted:

I don't disagree with you that it doesn't appear to make much sense, but it is factually inaccurate to claim that it isn't happening today.

Yeah I don't see what's controversial about this. The biggest failing of Labour since the financial crisis has been to roll over and accept blame for the deficit instead of justifying their spending. As soon as Harman came out with that comment about how the public thinks Labour spend too much and you can't say voters are wrong (even when they are), it became consensus. The consensus is misleading and inaccurate, and it's perpetuated by the press repeating it over and over, but it still exists regardless.

# ? May 16, 2017 14:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

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