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ZiegeDame posted:. 
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May 17, 2017 03:26
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That's the one. Good to know I didn't hallucinate it.
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May 17, 2017 04:03
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 BGM: White Shadow  "Hmm. The log for today has not yet been filled out." "Yes. I'll do that right away. Kanon-kun, thanks for keeping an eye out while I was gone." "...That was a pretty long break."Kanon had already noticed. There was a silvery glint coming from the ring finger on Shannon's left hand.  "Then I will retire. Please do not hesitate to wake me if anything occurs."  ""Goodnight, Genji-sama.""Genji disappeared off to the waiting room. After that, only Shannon and Kanon remained.  "...Thanks for giving me some time. I'll stay here for the rest, so you can go to sleep now." BGM: Blue Butterfly  "...Yeah. Sorry, but we aren't going to lose." "And I... won't lose either..." "Even though you've always been a coward and let Milady take the lead until now...?" "...Wasn't it you who taught me, Nee-san?" "What did I teach you...?" "The past is immaterial when it comes to love. The present is all that's important. If that is true, then I think my present is in no way inferior to yours, Nee-san."Shannon and Kanon glared at each other with serious eyes. That period of tension vanished when Shannon chuckled.  "...Yeah, that's good. You and Milady have to give it your all. If you do end up together, make sure you build up a relationship wonderful enough so that the rest of us can cheer you on with all our hearts." "Well, you do have a huge lead on me." "...Nothing to be done about that. That's what you get for your cowardice before now." "I know. That is my... sin."Shannon and Kanon fished around in their pockets, and drew out two small things that glittered gold. They looked like... the left and right wings of a gold butterfly. "We are furniture. In order to become human and receive the miracle that allows us to love, we must rely on a miracle of magic once again." "...To think that her brooch would prove useful." "It's the only magic within our reach."It was the golden butterfly brooch, which Beatrice had once given to Shannon in the hopes of creating love between her and George. Shannon had given it to Kanon, but he had let his emotions get ahold of him and had crushed it into pieces. So, when the two wings they held were brought together, it would regain the form of a beautiful butterfly.  "...Then I'll be back soon. After all, they have asked me to play cards with them." "Yeah. Good luck. I'm sure Milady will be happy." "...It's a bit embarrassing." "Enjoy that feeling."Kanon left the servant room. He went to go see Jessica and tell her what he had determined to do. Shannon quietly watched him go. The fragment of the brooch and the engagement ring let off a gold and silver glint...  BGM: Hope  "...That's the golden butterfly brooch, isn't it? I read about the magical brooch that can save a love relationship in Featherine-san's book."And that had been the first moment that Beatrice, witch of the forest, had met with a human and given them her power. Bit by bit, she had transformed from a mere ghost to the ruler of the mansion at night, and by making the servants believe in her, she had wiped away the anti-magic power. And then, it eventually became possible for her to appear openly in front of Shannon, whose magic resistance had grown particularly low and who had begun to believe in the existence of Beatrice... To Beato, who had been unable to interact with anyone for many years, this conversation with Shannon must have been especially fun...  "That's why I generously gave her the butterfly brooch. *cackle*cackle*, I was in quite a good mood. It is no common thing for a heartless witch such as myself to be so gracious." "But it's wonderful. You brought a pair of future lovers together." "Of course, I did not do it to pamper them. It was in exchange for smashing that hateful spirit mirror that had repressed my magical powers. Thanks to that, I was able to regain much of my power all in one go." BGM: None Kumasawa had the rest of the night off. So, she had let Erika talk her into drinking a bit, and was chatting about the legend of Akujikishima and Beatrice in a happy, tipsy mood. Erika would nod from time to time, but she listened very closely. She wasn't actually taking notes, but she was gathering the information on the whiteboard inside her head. ...Then, she frowned as though noticing something out of place and held up her hand.  "Let's stop there." "Yes?" BGM: The Great Detective Knows  "Yes, that is correct. It was one who possessed a vast supernatural power, and who placed that power within the mirro-" "And placed it within the shrine as a sacred mirror to seal the evil spirits. Something feels off about that. Why would a shrine to seal the evil spirits of Akujikishima also seal Beatrice?" "W, well... That's, uh, because the power of the sacred mirror..." "...I see. So it's this really convenient sacred mirror that works on both evil spirits from the East and witches from the West. Got it. I'm still not satisfied, but I'll back off there for now. What I don't understand is why Beatrice can't stand spiderwebs."According to the legend, the evil spirits of Akujikishima despised spiderwebs, so they were apparently used as wards against evil in the surrounding islands. Actually, spiders are a useful bug. There was nothing strange about the fact that the farmers of the islands had treasured them. It's very possible that they were then tied to the story of evil spirits and became known as charms against evil, leading to a tradition of people treating this useful bug with care through the generations...   "In other words, the evil spirits of Akujikishima and the Golden Witch Beatrice are completely different things. And yet, their setup is treated in exactly the same way." "W, well now..."The evil spirits of Akujikishima couldn't stand spiderwebs. So neither could Beatrice. That sort of reasoning has been applied all over the place. When it was pointed out that this was strange, Kumasawa was lost for an answer... "The doorknob to Kinzo-san's study has a scorpion magic circle drawn on it, which represents a charm against magic in western sorcery. That's why the western witch Beatrice can't touch it. I can understand that part." "But there's no reason for Beatrice to dislike spiderwebs. I don't remember spiderwebs ever being included among things witches can't stand. On the contrary, wouldn't spiders be the friends and minions of a witch?" "W, well..." "In my opinion, those two legends about the evil spirits of Akujikishima and the witch Beatrice... have been mixed together a little. In fact, maybe they've been fully joined together as one. The legend of Akujikishima is a fairy tale created by fishermen fearful of reefs in the Rokkenjima area. However, there was no visual image to go along with those evil spirits." "Were they people, or monsters, or ghosts without legs? There's no mental picture of them. People are bad at imagining things without visuals. And that's when the legend of the witch called Beatrice came in. A witch is a lot easier to picture than evil spirits. And on top of that, Kinzo-san had a portrait of Beatrice drawn and displayed. In other words, the lack of a visual image, which was the one weak point in the legend of Akujikishima, was finally completed. At some point since then, perhaps the two legends have been mixed together." BGM: None Kumasawa laughed to smooth it over, wiping away a cold sweat... She might have seemed confused, but she actually did understand what Erika was saying. In truth, she had been vaguely aware of how the legend of Akujikishima, which had been around before Ushiromiya Kinzo had come to Rokkenjima, and the legend of the Golden Witch, the story of the woman who had given Kinzo a vast quantity of gold, had both transformed. She didn't want to acknowledge it, but she knew. The 'setting' where Beatrice hated the spirit mirror and spiderwebs. This had been based on the ancient legend of Akujikishima. The 'evil spirits' part of that legend had just been replaced by the witch of the portrait... "...So, if there really was someone claiming to be the Golden Witch Beatrice, I'd really like to ask her, whether she actually does hate spiderwebs or not. What happens when she touches them?" "I, it is said that witches and their minions... receive burns when they touch spiderwebs... so that is probably what would happen, I guess..." "Hmph, that's not bad. A splendid witch trial. If the spiderweb touches her and she gets burned, then she's an evil spirit, not a witch. And if nothing happens, then it proves she's just a human. In other words, whether she's burned or not, it will prove that the Golden Witch doesn't exist. The legend of the witch is nothing more than the legend of Akujikishima re-boiled with a new face on it." "...W, well..." "Simply by the existence of the legend itself, reasoning of this level is possible for Furudo Erika. What do you think, everyone...?"Though only the two of them were in the lounge, Erika faced in the direction an invisible audience would have been if there was one, and shrugged... And, to match Erika's imagination, the two of them actually were there, listening in...  BGM: Melody (instrumental)  "..."When Beato the elder snapped her fingers, a single, graceful spider slipped down from the ceiling, hanging by a transparent thread. Afterwards, only a single silver strand remained.  "...Umm..."Timidly, Beato stretched her finger out towards the spider's string... Then, she touched it...   "...You are?" "Huh...?"Beato the elder lifted up a white, pale finger, and after showing it to her little sister, she traced the silver string with it. There was a stench like a single hair being burnt. Once again, she held her finger up in front of Beato, who was dumbfounded. There was a thin burn line, as though someone had traced across it with a razor...  "What's... going on...?" "That's what I would like to know. Why are you unharmed?" "I, I don't know. What I don't understand is why you do get burnt by touching a spiderweb..." "...I do not know. It has always been like that since I first gained consciousness." "Then, are you..."Beato hesitated. However, her question was clear.   "Are spiderwebs the only things you can't handle...?" "As this Erika said, I can't touch the doorknob to Kinzo's study. That scorpion magic circle burns me. For me, trying to open the door to that study is like trying to pick a red-hot horseshoe out of a fire. What about you?" "Huh? Scorpion magic circles, you mean...?"The older sister snapped her fingers again. When she did, the surrounding scene bent and twisted, and they had suddenly moved to the place in front of Kinzo's study. And there... was the doorknob engraved with the scorpion magic circle.  "Those who research magic must have a refuge sealed off from both human and spiritual disturbances. It's no surprise that Kinzo chose to seal off his study and place a charm such as this here. And, unfortunately, that affects me as well."She gently grasped the doorknob.   "B, big sister, are you okay...?! Your hand... aaaaaaahhh...!!"Her hand... had been horribly burnt, and Beato couldn't help but avert her eyes... "Fear not. This scratch will heal quickly."Apparently, it would heal by itself if left alone. The older sister seemed to heal at an inhuman rate. "However, it seems that you can handle it just fine." "...Ah... aaah."She timidly poked the doorknob. Nothing happened. Slowly, she touched it with her entire palm, but she felt nothing but a pleasantly cool sensation.  "...Strange. Though you are my double, you are different from me in several ways." "While I might be able to touch the doorknob, if I ever get burnt like you did, I don't think I'd heal that easily..." "...It's as though you're a normal human." "Y, yes. Even I find it a little hard to believe that I'm a witch... I can't use magic like you, and I can't get strange burns or heal from them later... Father believed... that I was a great witch reborn... but... I cannot believe that..." "...Who are you?" "I, I am Beatrice. I was born for Father's sake. And you, big sister?" "I am also Beatrice. I used magic to give Kinzo gold, and later became a soul and the formless witch that haunts this island." BGM: Apathy "...Unlike me, it seems you possess a body." "Huh? Really...?" "Yes. I thought of it while listening to that Erika person. I am a witch who can use magic but has no body, and you are a witch who has a body but can use no magic. Eventually, perhaps we will become one, each filling in what the other lacks, and become the true, complete Beatrice." "..."It did seem plausible. Both of the Beatrices were missing something. If they become one, then surely they would be very close to the Beatrice Battler desires... "...Do you want... to try?" "...Huh...?" "Hold out your hand."The older sister slowly raised her palm and held it out before Beato. The large burn from a second ago really had started to heal already... "It may be possible for us to become one. I want to know as well. By becoming one with you, I want to learn about my future self." "..."Beato also raised her hand slowly, and the two hands... touched...  Perhaps this meant that, while they were fated to become one eventually, that time had not yet come... "...For me, being burned by spiderwebs is perfectly normal. However, you didn't even know about it. In the same way, you say that the reason you were born was for your Father's sake. Apparently, that father is Ushiromiya Battler. I know him as a rare guest who only comes a few times a year, but I cannot understand what connection you and I have with such an infrequent guest. Surely, we must learn more about each other." "Y, yeah, you're right... I get the feeling that learning about each other will lead us to something very important." "On the other side lies the single future Beatrice. No, it may be more correct to say that it is the true form we are supposed to possess."With their hands still joined, the two Beatrices swore to fill in the parts the other lacked and regain their single form.  
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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Kumasawa can get out of anything by claiming age as an excuse. Still knocks back liquor like a champ though.
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May 17, 2017 15:51
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Just because the story of the witch doesn't make that much sense doesn't mean witches don't exist though? What's her point?
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May 17, 2017 15:56
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Erika just likes punching people, even when there's no point to it. I'd guess the elder sister is the Beatrice legend, the one put forward by Kinzo and conflated with the island's reputation for evil spirits. The younger one is Kinzo's illegitimate daughter, the 1967 Beatrice. However, I'm not clear if they're supposed to be sneaking around a real world mansion, or in the meta world the witches watch from, or in some other side dimension between the two. Neither should actually be alive at this time. And I have no idea who's point of view all that was supposed to be from. The two Beatrices, I guess? Shannon's personality is really changed in this arc. It's almost like Battler, as game master, is trying to force a happy ending on everybody. Except that would be entirely out of character for the story, and we have to get some murders soon, right?
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May 17, 2017 16:10
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Hmm, that was a lot more restrained than I thought might happen, the whole "let's try to join" thing... I was expecting some ridiculous image, but they just pressed hands together like a trust exercise or something. I wonder what is meant by them "coming together", though, because like this update indicated, neither of them seem complete, like two masks the OG Beatrice wore- with Spirit-Beatrice being the persona formed by the legends of the night spirits of the island, and Chick-Beatrice being the image in the painting, but... something still feels off, somehow. I guess it's how incongruous Chick-Beato seems so far; Spirit-Beato seems the same as Beato ever was, if somewhat one directional (and without real Beato's weird emotional shifts), but this girl... it's odd having someone so sweet in this story, and if she's comparable to anyone, it's 1967 Beato that fell off the cliff... The question is, is Battler still playing by the rules of the game before, using all of the roles and pieces, or is he changing it up? I guess I mean- did Beato have Chick Beato the whole time and just didn't use her except for a flashback, or is she a new person that just came about because Battler cloned the painting? If she is a piece of Beato's... why keep her around? Is it out of sympathy, something like "Here, have a new life, mind you stay away from any cliffs in future"? Or was she just a mask she wore for Battler's benefit?
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May 17, 2017 16:15
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Tired Moritz posted:Just because the story of the witch doesn't make that much sense doesn't mean witches don't exist though? What's her point? She's saying that ancient Japanese methods of protecting the island from evil also working on protecting against Beato's magic are very convenient for anyone trying to get others to believe in it. In other words she's implying it's just the same story that's warped over generations in order to keep a culture's order, not unlike when the Legend of the Golden Witch spread to the now adults on the island after Rudolf said he wanted to pet the wolves in the forest the Kinzo wants his dang kids to stay out of it. Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 16:40
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resurgam40 posted:The question is, is Battler still playing by the rules of the game before, using all of the roles and pieces, or is he changing it up? I guess I mean- did Beato have Chick Beato the whole time and just didn't use her except for a flashback, or is she a new person that just came about because Battler cloned the painting? I'm not entirely sure what exactly you're asking here, but regardless of whether she's new or - like Genji and Kumasawa insist - the same old Beatrice, creating new pieces shouldn't really be against whatever rules are in place. Look at... well, any previous episode. Erika's existence, in particular.
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May 17, 2017 17:17
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Elder Beatrice is the personification of the legends and folklore surrounding the island. Younger Beatrice is the totally human persona created somehow as a result of Battler's sin. This would be the Beatrice that is capable of having real-life tea parties with Maria or murdering 13 people. What I find most interesting is that it's Elder Beatrice who gave Shannon the brooch. Might this mean that Shannon just found this good-luck charm somewhere, and used smashing the mirror as a symbolic act of defying social conventions in order to summon the courage to go out with George? Is it possible that in the beginning of episode 2, the conversations Shannon and Kanon have are with different Beatrices?
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May 17, 2017 17:42
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"Hmph, that's not bad. A splendid witch trial. If the spiderweb touches her and she gets burned, then she's an evil spirit, not a witch. And if nothing happens, then it proves she's just a human. In other words, whether she's burned or not, it will prove that the Golden Witch doesn't exist. The legend of the witch is nothing more than the legend of Akujikishima re-boiled with a new face on it." Erika. Erika, please. We know you're incompetent, you don't need to keep proving it. You make a good point about the legends fusing together, and then you just kind of get confused and spew this mess out. Erika would have done very well at the Salem witch trials. She'd be very happy with dropping someone into a lake and then seeing if they drowned to prove they were a witch. Though since the actual goal of the trials was to get rid of people they didn't like she'd be the first one they tried it on. Simply by the existence of the water itself, drowning of this level is possible for Furudo Erika!
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May 17, 2017 19:23
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Well, this could be taken as another suggestion that Beatrice and X are two parts of a whole, aka personalities. Not sure if confirmation bias is what's leading me to that conclusion, though. I had been wondering about the reason for the whole spiderweb thing in episode 2, though. Qrr posted:"Hmph, that's not bad. A splendid witch trial. If the spiderweb touches her and she gets burned, then she's an evil spirit, not a witch. And if nothing happens, then it proves she's just a human. In other words, whether she's burned or not, it will prove that the Golden Witch doesn't exist. The legend of the witch is nothing more than the legend of Akujikishima re-boiled with a new face on it." The point she's making is that the "Legend of Beatrice" is just the evil spirits of Akujikishima legend with Beatrice's face stamped on top, and the actions could easily be that of a human, meaning Beatrice simply exists in the gap between the two. Once one or the other has been confirmed, Beatrice has no space to exist in, and is denied.
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May 17, 2017 20:11
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tiistai posted:I'm not entirely sure what exactly you're asking here, but regardless of whether she's new or - like Genji and Kumasawa insist - the same old Beatrice, creating new pieces shouldn't really be against whatever rules are in place. Look at... well, any previous episode. Erika's existence, in particular. So Neo-Beato could have been created for this episode, is what you're saying, just a new character stitched whole cloth. Or perhaps a personification of a mask that was always there... the thing that Beatrice pretended to be while being someone else. Someone we probably haven't seen the true self of yet.
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May 17, 2017 20:48
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resurgam40 posted:Someone we probably haven't seen the true self of yet. I know that's not where you're going with this sentence, but it made me think, what if multiple people have split personalities? Say if Beatrice was a game Kanon and Shannon played together, both taking it in turns to be the witch, to play pranks at first probably, but it could turn into something more, with one or both of the created peesonalities taking on a life of her own. Of course you start going down this route and you end up at everyone being a personality of someone else and it's all in Battlers head and he's in a coma. Which would work, but is a bit of a cop out.
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May 17, 2017 22:08
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resurgam40 posted:So Neo-Beato could have been created for this episode, is what you're saying, just a new character stitched whole cloth. Or perhaps a personification of a mask that was always there... the thing that Beatrice pretended to be while being someone else. Someone we probably haven't seen the true self of yet. This is just my own speculation, so take it with salt. Elder-sister Beatrice is a piece on the board that was made by Beatrice from episode 2 and onward, episode 5's was made by Lambdadelta. They are just there as representations for the sake of the game board, but follow the same actions that Beatrice would just like why Battler's piece is doing things he would do without the knowledge that Sorcerer Battler has. While the Little-Sister Beatrice is the real Beato only she lost her original memories, personality, and abilities due to dying then being revived and some other magic stuff. So the Elder Sister still has the same personality and magic abilities as Beatrice but not the memories, and now they're both on a magical adventure to become whole again.
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May 17, 2017 22:21
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Cyouni posted:
But she hasn't really made that point. She's pointed out overlap between the two. Possibilities: Beatrice isn't real/is human. This is the true one, but we can't jump straight to it. Beatrice is affected by spiderwebs, either by coincidence or by some interaction with the evil spirits. Beatrice isn't affected by spiderwebs, and the servants confused the legends themselves. I bet people who heard about platypi second hand believed all sorts of weird things about them, but that didn't disprove platypi. Because that's really what Erika is trying to argue - either it lays eggs and it's a bird, or it doesn't and it's a mammal! Either way, I've proven that platypi don't exist! Heck, maybe Beatrice is a human with a silk allergy and the results got exaggerated. Why not fill out all the possibilities.
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May 17, 2017 22:36
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just because Beatrice has similar weaknesses to the evil spirits doesn't discount that a witch exists. RIght?
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May 17, 2017 22:48
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resurgam40 posted:So Neo-Beato could have been created for this episode, is what you're saying, just a new character stitched whole cloth. Or perhaps a personification of a mask that was always there... the thing that Beatrice pretended to be while being someone else. Someone we probably haven't seen the true self of yet. I'm saying it's not impossible, yeah, but whether she's new or old is obviously left as an exercise for the reader. Hell, she could be both somehow! I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi.
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May 18, 2017 02:56
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 October 4th, 1986, 10:59 PM  ...The eerie sound of the wind and rain. Once again, I hazily regained consciousness on top of the bed... The finger that the witch had bitten off.. was still attached. I didn't say 'it was all an illusion'... just that it was still attached. After all, the pain and the teeth marks as though a witch had bitten it... were still there. And yet, the window, which I had supposedly smashed, had been fixed as though it had never been broken in the first place... ...How can I escape this creepy room? Why am I locked up in this eerie room... all alone...? I want to get out. I have to get out. Let me out of here...  I could open it a crack, but only enough to peek out into the corridor at best. It would probably be hard even to get just a fist through it. The window won't budge either. It was no better than a barred prison window... The bathroom didn't even have a window. The only thing that could get out of there was the water that flowed out if you turned on the tap. No matter what I do, I can't think of a way out of here. Being shut up in a place like this makes me a true prisoner. Unless someone comes from outside to save me, I won't be able to get out for all eternity.  BGM: Eternal Chains Yes, the tiny gap I can make in that door must exist so that I can call for help. But... can I make the words come out...? Earlier, I tried to call out for help, but for some reason, the words couldn't escape my mouth. I might have made some kind of mistake. I might have just lost my voice in my haste and confusion. I'll open the door and make that crack appear one more time. The warm light of the hallway flowed in, making the darkness of the room stand out all the more... Though I couldn't hear any voices, I did feel something peaceful. I'm sure everyone's in the room at the other end of the hallway, chatting happily about something. If I can just call out, surely someone will come to save me...  Holding back some indescribable fear, I tried yelling once more...  "...!! ...!!! ...!!!!"But the result was the same. It was like trying to yell underwater. All I did was get out of breath, unable to call out in the slightest. "...Haah!! Haah, haah, haah..."Even though I could say as much as I wanted if I just grumbled to myself inside the room, whenever I tried to make my voice reach outside, I choked and was unable to say anything. I understand. My body isn't the only thing locked up in this eerie closed room. My voice is too... Thinking that I could use some other kind of sound to call for help, I tried opening and closing the door violently, making the chain rattle. It does sound as though it's making a noisy clanking sound, but it's surely no good. Even this sound... is being locked inside this closed room. No matter how harsh a sound I make, I'm sure it'll be quieter than a leaf falling by the time it reaches the other end of the corridor... I tried using the hateful chain that sealed the door to make a sound to call for someone, but that only deepened my despair... "...? This... chain...?"BGM: None That's insane... Even though just a second ago, it was a stiff chain that looked like it was used to seal a monster away...  This changes everything. Now I can just undo it from the inside...! I tried to undo it, but the chain wasn't long enough for that while the door was still open a crack, and I couldn't get it off. Of course. "...C, calm down...*gulp*..."I gulped, and calmly closed the door. Then, when I saw that the chain had slackened enough, I touched it with my finger to make sure. When I was little, I hated chains, because I could never get them undone right. However, that was a long time ago. Now, I can undo something like this. Anyone could... it's easy... *clank*... I had a vision of the demon who had locked me in this room using this as a trap to give me hope and then make me despair even more, but I pushed those thoughts aside for the time being.  ...Now, there is no lock sealing this door. Please, don't torment me anymore... and just... open normally...! Slowly... the door opened. I had closed the door in order to undo the chain, so the warm light from the hallway had been cut off. If I open it again, what if that warm light is gone this time? I was even afraid of that. However, that was... just me over-imagining things. Slowly, quickly... no, I guess this is normal for a door... As the door let out an annoying creak, the exit from this cursed closed room finally opened...  Ha... hahaha, I did it... I did it...! Even my cry of joy was strangled. But that doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is that I can get out! I poked my head out and looked left and right down the corridor. The warm corridor. I could sense people having fun at the other end. Everyone's right there. Let's go, right now. "...Gyeh...?!?!"At that moment, something cold and heartless crushed my throat. It was as though an iron loop had been fastened around my neck and pulled on hard from behind. No... not 'as though'.  When did this happen?! When I turned around, I despaired even more. Out from the inner side of the door I had just opened, a thick chain had extended... and attached itself to my collar. I pulled on it, but it didn't even budge. When I shook it, the whole door creaked. ...What... th... the hell... The chain that connected to my collar... was attached to the inner side of the door.  BGM: Golden Slaughterer That's insane... that's insane...!! Dammit, what's going on here?!! I pulled with all my strength, trying to tear the whole door off, but I already knew from repeated experiments that it wouldn't even budge. I'm sure this chain will disappear once I go back inside the room. But it will never let me leave the room. Though it had appeared to revert to being a normal chain lock, nothing had actually changed. The fact was that 'the chain lock' still bound me to that room... "...Uuu... nnngh... aaaaaaaaahhhh...!!!"Tears flowing down my face, I pulled with all I had. It was completely useless. No matter what I did, I'd never tear it loose. And I wasn't even permitted to call out for help. I felt a confused anger at how the demon had mercilessly made me think that I'd escaped for just an instant. But no matter how much I yelled, no voice came out, and no one on the other end of the corridor could hear me... Then, I noticed... an odd stain on the wall of the corridor. It wasn't a stain. They were letters, traced out by a finger that had been covered in red paint. "...?! ?!?!"Those letters... which looked like they had been drawn in blood, answered my biggest question...  I instantly understood the meaning of that ominous message. Then I tried it out, and understood completely. When I returned to the room and reset the chain lock, the binding around my neck disappeared. When I undid the chain lock again, that heavy feeling around my neck returned. In other words, I cannot leave this room while the chain lock is still unset. In that case, why don't I just set the chain while outside the room...?! I undid the chain one more time. The collar and chain appeared around my neck again. I stepped out into the corridor and closed the door behind me, leaving only the slightest of cracks. I stuck my hand through that crack, grabbed the dangling chain, and tried to reset it somehow.  The gap needed to be wide if I wanted to manipulate the chain well. However, that made the chain too short to reach. To make the chain reach just a bit further, I would have to close the door a little bit more. But if I do that, there won't even be enough of a gap to fit my hand in. Of course, it was perfectly natural. Chain locks are made to be done from the inside. They'd be completely pointless if you could set and unset them from the outside. That's why the length of the chain is specially chosen to prevent anyone from setting or unsetting it from the outside. Then can I use some kind of hard and thin tool? If the gap of the door is just a finger's width across, that's more than enough for the chain to reach. If I could just bend a wire hanger so that it fits through the crack and work the chain with that... That's right, there's a closet just to the side of the door. Could there be some hangers in there?  A single, cheap-looking hanger, like one you might find in a laundry room, was hanging there. Really? I'm pretty sure that when I last looked a short while ago... nothing like this was in the closet... Ah, who cares...! Quickly... quickly...!! I twisted the wire hanger, bending the end with the tip around. I formed a loop at the end to grab at things with, making for a sort of burglar's tool. I then dashed out into the corridor again and closed the door almost as far as it would go. My wrist could never pass through this. However, if I close it this much, the chain should have extra length to spare...! And this crack is large enough for me to stick the hanger through...! Now it's just a matter of technique...! I'll definitely be able to do it if I try enough times... I'm certain of it!! "...Hah... haah... haah... haah...!"It's harder than it looks... But the chain is long enough. It isn't impossible...! I had finally gotten my hands on the one way to escape. It was hard, yes, but it was theoretically possible. If it is possible, I'll be able to get out. I'll be able to escape from here...!!  BGM: Miragecoordinator "...! ?!?!"At that moment, I felt a heavy weight on the far side of the door. It felt as though someone inside the room had pressed their forehead against the door... and was drawing closer.  Then, I felt a powerful and strange force on the wire hanger. Is she trying to grab it away from me?! Yeah right, like hell I'll let go!! Like hell I'll let my one key out of here get stolen while my guard's down!! Fortunately, I had stuck my wrist through it so that I wouldn't drop it if my hand got tired. You won't be able to snatch this out of my hands...!  The witch on the other side of the door watched me and laughed... Then, I noticed something weird. I looked at my left hand, which I had pressed against the door to hold it in place, and between the fingers of that hand, I could see something red. They were... red... letters. I realized immediately. At some point in time, even more bloody letters had been drawn on the door, and my left hand had been covering them up. Still fighting against the vice-like strength of the witch beyond the door, I moved my left hand to the side. Where that hand had been... bloody letters had indeed been drawn. It was... as though someone had predicted that I'd struggle this way from the very beginning... a message from the witch to me.  "N, no way..." There was suddenly a terrible sound, and the force that had been pulling on the hanger was suddenly released. Then, when I pulled it out and looked... I lost all hope. As though it had been hit by the acid of the room's darkness, the tip of the hanger... had burnt and bubbled... and melted off. Now it's pitifully short. This can't be used for anything...! It would be useless to search for a substitute. All schemes to close the chain from the outside... have been sealed...! Dammit... dammit, dammit, dammit...!! I threw the remnants of the wire hanger against the floor, faced the hallway filled with a warm light, and called for help. However, I just choked, unable to speak at all. Everyone's just down the corridor. And everything's peaceful there! I can't hear their voices, but I know! I'm sure they're all having a good time playing cards! Please, someone notice!! Someone... save me!!!  Aaaaaaaahgggyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh...!!!  This time, it wasn't the witch's voice. It was the happy voices of everyone else, which I could hear from the other end of the hallway... 
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May 19, 2017 13:24
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ProfessorProf posted:That's insane... Even though just a second ago, it was a stiff chain that looked like it was used to seal a monster away... I feel like that might just be the wrong line in the screenshot. But I guess this is a good time to revisit ways of accomplishing Eva/Hideyoshi in episode 1.
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May 19, 2017 13:44
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I'll fix it after work.
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May 19, 2017 13:50
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So this is Battler being trapped in his own locked room then? Psychologically at least, as even on the meta level his body's walking around fine (and getting married to Erika for some reason, seriously, what the hell?) E: ProfessorProf posted:For the record - it's been a long and lovely month, but I've more or less made a full recovery, so we should be back up to daily updates very soon. Glad you're doing better  , and no worries on the updates, your health is more important
Graylien fucked around with this message at 15:10 on May 19, 2017 |
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May 19, 2017 14:48
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For the record - it's been a long and lovely month, but I've more or less made a full recovery, so we should be back up to daily updates very soon.
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May 19, 2017 14:49
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Yeah, glad you're doing better; as someone who had a nasty medical shock himself recently, take all the rest you feel comfortable with- good health is one of those things that's hard to notice when it's here but very noticeable when it's gone. Much like freedom that way, as Battler (?) is discovering...
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May 19, 2017 16:07
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I don't know if it's Battler specifically, but yeah it's definitely a metaphorical representation of how to set up a locked room with nobody inside. Of course, my solution to this is to lie about the chain being set in the first place. But how would that look in this setup? Imagine really hard that the chain is set? Ask the witch to set the chain for you and believe that it is locked?
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May 19, 2017 17:40
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I hope you feel better soon ProfessorProf. As for Battle trapping himself in his own fortress. Nothing has been revealed yet so everything is a wild guess, mine is that he trying to pin all suspects down to whoever's trapped in the room which is probably himself. Then he's going to have that person killed to eliminate suspicion and frustrate Erika. There was a hitch and now he has to marry her because of a joke/bet that his piece made during the game or something.
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May 19, 2017 19:33
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Looking again at episode 1, it pretty much has to be Kanon and/or Shannon. Numerous times it's stated in red that all the living have alibis, and all unidentified corpses had their identities guaranteed. The unidentified corpses are: Rudolf, Kyrie, Gohda, and Rosa. That leaves Shannon and Krauss. Krauss was identified by multiple people, including Battler, so he's the less likely of the possibilities. Kanon's death was never proclaimed in red, even indirectly, so the possibility of him remaining alive exists. As to how Eva/Hideyoshi were killed, for the supposed dead, they simply had to stay within the room both before and after the crime, and leave after the locked room had been confirmed. For Kanon, he could have cut the chain and committed the crime, as the only ones that could testify that it was locked when the bodies were discovered are other possible conspirators. ProfessorProf posted:For the record - it's been a long and lovely month, but I've more or less made a full recovery, so we should be back up to daily updates very soon. Very good news. Take extra time if you need it - we're not exactly lacking in conversation topics to fill the space.
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May 19, 2017 20:35
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I'm pretty sure our person under house arrest is supposed to be Shannon. She came to the island when she was very young, and the experience may not have been the best. In this metaphor I think Shannon is coming in contact with the rules that bind her. So long as she can find a way to meet those conditions (reset the door chain before she takes off, find a way to do it from the inside, etc.) she will eventually escape. She's learning to evade the restrictions her captors have placed upon her in way that they can't be sure if she's still captured or not. This is mirrorIng 1960s Beatrice confinement (probably).
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May 19, 2017 21:11
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Seems like a pretty standard locked room so far. Options to get out include the chain never being set at all, the person leaving the room after the chain is removed somehow, and the chain being set by someone who is known to be in the room (generally the victim). Presumably secret passages are still not permitted. The window hasn't been closed off by red but it has been closed off by being a super weird window and, presumably, by not being broken when the room is opened. The other obvious way to get out of the room is to be a witch. But one of the constraints of witches is that they can never do anything that a human couldn't also do, because they're not real. Very sad. While both Beatrice and Shannon could have been trapped in a room, they would not have needed to get out without removing the chain. That's murder mystery closed room rules.
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May 19, 2017 21:43
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I think I can put an end to the Shannon=Kanon theory. Shannon is not Kanon. For that to be true, they would have to hold two master keys. There are five, one for each servant. The only master keys are the ones held by the servants, one key each. There are only five master keys. As Shannon and Kanon were only holding one master key each, they are not the same person.
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May 19, 2017 22:51
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Cyouni posted:I think I can put an end to the Shannon=Kanon theory. Who were the listed servants who were given master keys? If it was not specified then it's possible that the key that is theorized to go to Kanon actually goes to Kumasawa instead.
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May 19, 2017 23:49
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Cyouni, that's exactly my episode 1 theory, though I haven't gone through and tested it. It bothers me that it could be Shannon or Kanon; Kanon's death is easier to fake, so I prefer him. And honestly, I think Shannon = Kanon has only been visible with the eye of faith for some time. But the servants are an unambiguous group of five: Kumasawa, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda.
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May 19, 2017 23:57
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Also I want to give credit to Qrr for starting to figure out ways to get out of this locked room, because I don't really know of any. :p Master key issues though, I think I can handle. Five servants, five master keys. For sure, Gohda was not given one. In an attempt to curry favor with solving a locked room, he mentioned that he wished he had one so he could open the locked door with it. This causes Shannon/Kanon to wince because they were hoping to have that door remain locked much longer (can't remember which book it was from). Maybe he was lying about not having one (but Gohda is the best character and would never lie, goddammit), or he was intentionally ruining Shannon/Kanon's attempt to have the door remain locked. I personally believe Gohda was telling the truth and has no master key. This leaves in extra key available if you assume that Kumasawa, Genji, Shannon, and Kanon have one each. If you believe that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, then it actually leaves two master keys available.
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May 20, 2017 00:14
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BurningStone posted:Cyouni, that's exactly my episode 1 theory, though I haven't gone through and tested it. It bothers me that it could be Shannon or Kanon; Kanon's death is easier to fake, so I prefer him. I definitely agree with you on how it's easier to fake Kanon's death, plus other minor cues I've noted suggest Kanon's more likely (subject to confirmation bias, of course). EagerSleeper posted:Who were the listed servants who were given master keys? If it was not specified then it's possible that the key that is theorized to go to Kanon actually goes to Kumasawa instead. It's never noted, but there are five servants - Gohda, Kumasawa, Genji, Shannon, Kanon - and the red says "one key each". EagerSleeper posted:Also I want to give credit to Qrr for starting to figure out ways to get out of this locked room, because I don't really know of any. :p Master key issues though, I think I can handle. Part 55, Devil's Proof II: "Genji-san looked at Gohda-san and Shannon-chan. The two of them nodded, and set their own master keys onto the table." I'll keep an eye out for that section as I continue rereading, but if you find it, please note it. Edit: The reactions you noted sound a lot like Kinzo's study door during episode 5 and how Gohda kept mentioning the ladder.
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May 20, 2017 01:08
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Perhaps Kanon and Shanon are one body but are two servants. So if they do have two keys, the red would be satisfied. It would also be weird but hey, that's fine. Honestly I think the Kanon = Shanon thing will turn out to be a red herring, possibly created by Battler. It doesn't seem impossible given what we've seen, and I'm willing to argue for it, but it frankly requires bullshit on the level of small bombs and not trusting anything at all that isn't in red. It also doesn't really help resolve much if it's true, mostly it just raises more questions.
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May 20, 2017 01:26
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Honestly I think the biggest mark against Shannon = Kanon is that for it to work Hideyoshi would have to be in on it. Also the killer would be taking a gamble that nobody who isn't in on the increasingly large conspiracy would get the chance to look at "Shannon's corpse" in episode 1. Also I guess Genji would have had to kill Battler, Rosa, and Maria at the end of episode 2. From a writing standpoint it just seems like an excessively bloated and complicated conspiracy plot. So it makes total sense that Battler would try (and fail) to pull it off.
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May 20, 2017 01:49
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Cyouni posted:I'll keep an eye out for that section as I continue rereading, but if you find it, please note it. Edit: The reactions you noted sound a lot like Kinzo's study door during episode 5 and how Gohda kept mentioning the ladder. Ack yeah that is true. That's what I was thinking off. I was honestly expecting Gohda to not have a master key because he doesn't the one-winged eagle crest. Thank you for the correct information.
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May 20, 2017 03:02
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ZiegeDame posted:Honestly I think the biggest mark against Shannon = Kanon is that for it to work Hideyoshi would have to be in on it. Also the killer would be taking a gamble that nobody who isn't in on the increasingly large conspiracy would get the chance to look at "Shannon's corpse" in episode 1. Also I guess Genji would have had to kill Battler, Rosa, and Maria at the end of episode 2. Yeah, having two characters like Shannon and Kanon, who've both been seen by the detective be not real seems like it would involve some really tricky work-arounds. There's definitely some personality trickery though, I'm a fan of Shannon and Sayo are counted separately, or someone (probably Shannon again) is Beatrice in body, but isn't the same personality. I also like our Battler and original Battler are different, but there's no real proof for that, other than I think him and Beatrice having that parallel would be cool. Also her line about the real Battler Ushiromiya wouldn't break his promise.
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May 21, 2017 11:02
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Graylien posted:I also like our Battler and original Battler are different, but there's no real proof for that, other than I think him and Beatrice having that parallel would be cool. Also her line about the real Battler Ushiromiya wouldn't break his promise. That line's always read as weird. But I'm not sure where it gets you. Unless, of course, if the original Battler is still alive. We vaguely theorised that it could be Kanon in the last thread, but there are only so many people that Kanon can simultaneously be. I was sure that the fact that he was hiding his name was going to lead to a twist about his identity, but it actually seems like a un-twisty name.
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May 21, 2017 18:58
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CottonWolf posted:That line's always read as weird. But I'm not sure where it gets you. Unless, of course, if the original Battler is still alive. We vaguely theorised that it could be Kanon in the last thread, but there are only so many people that Kanon can simultaneously be. I was sure that the fact that he was hiding his name was going to lead to a twist about his identity, but it actually seems like a un-twisty name. To me, the fact that his name is so unremarkable means the fact that it was withheld until now was supposed to be a hint to think about what Kanon's real name could be.
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May 21, 2017 19:28
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