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ToxicSlurpee posted:The core conservative belief right now is "government is inherently bad and must be destroyed." That's it. That's the basis of it. Liberals want a government at all so they are wrong and bad and must be fought at every turn. They love government so whatever they want to do is obviously bad for freedom and we must always do the exact opposite. That's at the political level. The on-the-ground view doesn't even seem to hold with that, and a lot of them seem to actually want a reliable social security net. It's "Whatever will hurt that smug college professor down the street who thinks he's better than me."
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May 16, 2017 19:38
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:That's at the political level. The on-the-ground view doesn't even seem to hold with that, and a lot of them seem to actually want a reliable social security net. It's "Whatever will hurt that smug college professor down the street who thinks he's better than me." Yeah conservatives I know IRL are not ancaps. They agree that the government should do some things, although they seem to think these things can be done well with almost no funding or personnel.
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May 16, 2017 19:40
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:That's at the political level. The on-the-ground view doesn't even seem to hold with that, and a lot of them seem to actually want a reliable social security net. It's "Whatever will hurt that smug college professor down the street who thinks he's better than me." Conservative voters are generally single-issue voters. The GOP strategy for basically ever has been targeting them and their pet issues. You'll see things like that but people who have a raging boner for all of the gun rights pulling for the Republican politician despite everything else that comes along with it. Abortion is another common one. It doesn't matter what other horrors the GOP is bringing along, we're saving the babies!!!!
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May 16, 2017 19:43
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Xibanya posted:Yeah conservatives I know IRL are not ancaps. They agree that the government should do some things, although they seem to think these things can be done well with almost no funding or personnel. I may sound like an rear end in a top hat saying this, but that seems to be a very common belief among uneducated conservatives. The deference to authority, coupled with not understanding how complex activities are carried out, leads to this idea that politicians, doctors, even librarians, can just snap their fingers and do whatever. So of COURSE the government can do whatever they want with no resources. They just make resources by being a government! Hell, the other day I had an older conservative gent in the library furious because I wouldn't interpret laws for him. No matter what I did, I couldn't get him to understand that a reference librarian cannot give legal advice. He seemed to think that was my job. (No, I don't work in a law library.)
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May 16, 2017 19:46
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It's the same song and dance with FREEDOM OF SPEECH being touted around as a magic spell. For starters, it's about the federal government squashing you like a bug if you dare to talk poo poo. Secondly, they seem to think there's a "freedom from consequences" clause in there, too.
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May 16, 2017 19:50
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:Hell, the other day I had an older conservative gent in the library furious because I wouldn't interpret laws for him. No matter what I did, I couldn't get him to understand that a reference librarian cannot give legal advice. He seemed to think that was my job. (No, I don't work in a law library.) this may be the result of self-selection and negative feedback - someone who is open to the idea that they made a mistake versus raging that reality itself must be wrong is much less likely to be an extremist on either side
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May 16, 2017 19:53
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Checking out Red State's take. Interestingly (but not unusual for them, since they are nothing but opinion columns) they have two very different opinions on Trump leaking Israel's secrets to Russia on their front page right now. http://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2017/05/16/common-core-math-selective-outrage-ginning-scandal/ http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/05/16/nations-begin-openly-question-whether-can-trust-u.s./ Should be noted that the first is by Jennifer Van Laar, who consistently has extremely awful opinions. (http://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/) The second is by Susan Wright, who has been critical of Trump for awhile now. (http://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/) I'm still going over Nattyreview's take; it's a longer column and I want to give it more thought than some Red State columns since in the grand scheme of things Red State doesn't have as much sway.
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May 16, 2017 20:31
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The Daily Stormer is in Spanish now. What is it called? El Daily Stormer. (ABC link to AP story.) And a little schadenfreude: quote:Surpassing Stormfront as the top U.S. hate site hasn't been a financial boon for The Daily Stormer, which calls itself "100 percent reader-supported." Anglin complained in January that a Ukrainian advertising company had banned them, leaving an Australian electrician as the site's only advertiser. I wonder what the company is. "Literally White Power"?
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May 16, 2017 20:46
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Conservative voters are generally single-issue voters. The GOP strategy for basically ever has been targeting them and their pet issues. You'll see things like that but people who have a raging boner for all of the gun rights pulling for the Republican politician despite everything else that comes along with it. Abortion is another common one. It doesn't matter what other horrors the GOP is bringing along, we're saving the babies!!!! Yeah, I know several people that will always straight vote GOP because of abortion. Nothing else matters when in their eyes there's a genocide going on. Nevermind preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place, it's all tunnel vision. They honestly believe they're helping women by restricting abortion, not harming them.
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May 16, 2017 21:09
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seiferguy posted:Yeah, I know several people that will always straight vote GOP because of abortion. Nothing else matters when in their eyes there's a genocide going on. Nevermind preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place, it's all tunnel vision. They honestly believe they're helping women by restricting abortion, not harming them. Yea, you see the same thing with single issue gun voters.
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May 16, 2017 21:14
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Easy Salmon Recipe posted:I may sound like an rear end in a top hat saying this, but that seems to be a very common belief among uneducated conservatives. The deference to authority, coupled with not understanding how complex activities are carried out, leads to this idea that politicians, doctors, even librarians, can just snap their fingers and do whatever. So of COURSE the government can do whatever they want with no resources. They just make resources by being a government! What I've generally encountered IRL is the belief that all funds going into government are being mismanaged, so we should cut off the gravy train. Granted there's a lot of waste and graft, a lot in the sense that it's much more money than an individual person could waste, but some waste seems inevitable in such an enormous nation - enormous both in physical size and population. There's this thinking that if there's less money to work with, agencies will "trim the fat" and just put enough to keep operating. My belief is that it doesn't really matter how much money is in the system, there will always be someone managing to enrich themselves or waste money, so reducing funds across the board does nothing to stop bad or careless actors (or perhaps makes the problem worse by sparing less for oversight.) Incidentally the greatest wastes of government funds that immediately spring to mind involve contractors and the military - and I don't say the military just in terms of "hey let's spend more on social programs and less on missiles" but more like, just reading GiP threads, there's lots of silly wastefulness going on on things like out of date computers, office supplies being ordered in extremely stupid ways, and other totally banal things. A lot of conservatives I know IRL like the idea of public spending if you can make the case that it will provide returns down the road and that it can't be abused by someone who doesn't deserve it. I've gotten conservative friends on board with the idea of municipally owned fiber ISPs and the government negotiating the price of pharmaceuticals with pharma companies (as is done in various European nations) and with using public funds to eliminate lead paint in old buildings. I can't get conservative friends on board with food stamps because even though those have been proved time and time again to have a huge return on investment, they ask why some people get free food and they don't (sadly also don't like the idea of universal minimum income, even though "how come they get free food and I don't" is a valid line of inquiry) and point to examples of people who deserve it less than they would gaming the system. In the case of removal of lead paint vs food stamps, both are government initiatives that wouldn't directly benefit the conservatives I've discussed them with, but I'm guessing lead paint removal is more palatable because what would it mean to game the system in that case? Get more lead paint removed from your home?
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May 16, 2017 21:47
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I think people are making the incorrect assumption that these are positions that conservatives believe in for no reason, rather than them being rationalizations defending their identity. The years since WWII have been seen the most upheaval in social organization in human history. MLK and the civil rights movement in the US totally rewrote what was acceptable in society. While the erosion of the welfare state has slowly sapped the once dominant white male of his power and prosperity relative to others, if you look at how economic anxiety is expressed. most of it is still primarily articulated in terms of race anxiety. All of the rationalizations conservatives present are rationaliztion on top of the core, which is the impression that society has changed in a scary and incomprehensible way. This sort of identity protective cognition appears all over the place. Just recently, there's data showing US millennial men want more traditional gender roles than before, practically in lockstep with the erosion of male earning power in the lower and middle class. It's not in the slate piece, but another comparison showed this was not the case in Europe, because the core issue here is a sense of insecurity in masculinity in a society that is both radically redefining gender, and trying to desperately preserve it, depending on where you look. For the most part, it's not something people can be reasoned out of with facts and numbers. It takes contact with groups they've internalized hatred for, and an honest appeal to their humanity and a listening of their concerns on a personal level. At least for the white working class, I don't think anything could possibly bring entitled shithead bankers or techies back from the brink. E: This is separate from abortion, which was a culture thing weaponized to keep the originally apolitical evangelicals energized after they were brought onboard to fight segregation. For them, it's basically because they've been sold a narrative by their leaders that abortion is worse than the Holocaust. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 22:12 on May 16, 2017 |
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May 16, 2017 22:05
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Sedge and Bee posted:I think people are making the incorrect assumption that these are positions that conservatives believe in for no reason, rather than them being rationalizations defending their identity. The years since WWII have been seen the most upheaval in social organization in human history. MLK and the civil rights movement in the US totally rewrote what was acceptable in society. While the erosion of the welfare state has slowly sapped the once dominant white male of his power and prosperity relative to others, if you look at how economic anxiety is expressed. most of it is still primarily articulated in terms of race anxiety. All of the rationalizations conservatives present are rationaliztion on top of the core, which is the impression that society has changed in a scary and incomprehensible way. This sort of identity protective cognition appears all over the place. Just recently, there's data showing US millennial men want more traditional gender roles than before, practically in lockstep with the erosion of male earning power in the lower and middle class. It's not in the slate piece, but another comparison showed this was not the case in Europe, because the core issue here is a sense of insecurity in masculinity in a society that is both radically redefining gender, and trying to desperately preserve it, depending on where you look. True, but it's also not incompatible with the observation that they are also very reactionary. Why do I read so much RWM? What do I get out of it? For me, it's seeking a way to communicate with them in a language they understand, and to understand what goes on in their minds on a conscious level. What you've said is valid, but for most conservatives it's all stuff below the surface. That's why I haven't been focusing on it so much. I think we're all on the same page about authoritarian followers being driven largely by anxiety. Altemeyer writes we all become more authoritarian (in the sense of wanting to follow authority) in times of anxiety and crisis. This isn't necessarily bad; it can manifest as seeking the advice of a counselor or psychiatrist, but it can be bad if it manifests as clinging to Alex Jones' every word. Altemeyer should be required reading for this thread. The official hosting seems to be down; if anybody wants the pdf, send me a PM
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May 16, 2017 22:13
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  This is not how I'd be managing expectation for that speech, someone's in for some serious loving disappointment
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May 16, 2017 22:24
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Oh yeah so on that Nattyreview article I mentioned, I was going to return to post on it because it was pretty lol (it was a lot of words to say the Trump leaking to Russia story was nothing, then with a small update at the bottom saying it was actually something, but not that big a deal) but it seems to have been pushed down on the front page. It's been replaced by an even more hilarious article: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447682/trump-shared-classified-information-remember-obama-clinton The gist of it is, yeah this is bad BUT HER EMAILS and counterfactuals of “if Hillary had leaked this Democrats would have loved it!” Then concludes with, I’m not saying this is good, but liberals are bad. Cool story, bro. I was heartened to see the Natty Editorial Board did put out this column: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447677/jeff-sessions-sentencing-war-drugs-congress-should-change-law it states the obvious: the war on drugs itself is a terrible answer to the problems caused by drugs. Since Natty is the flagship of intellectual conservatives, seeing them take an unambiguous stance against Sessions’ change in policy on sentencing is heartening, even if they have been and probably will be pro-Sessions in general. The article still takes a conservative tack but it’s actually conservative rather than being spitefully reactionary. (I'm phone posting, hence the lack of excerpts)
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May 16, 2017 22:44
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I'm completely convinced there is a large undercurrent of the baby boomers getting older, realizing they aren't immortal, and also seeing that another generation has different ideas. They world has passed them by and that's terrifying. Or maybe that's just the conservatives I know personally. Basically the Principal Skinner gif "NO IT'S THE CHILDREN WHO ARE WRONG."
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May 16, 2017 22:52
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Kekekela posted:
Hahahahahahah holy poo poo I cannot loving wait for this, I hope he commits blasphemy in the middle of Saudi Arabia during a speech.
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May 16, 2017 23:41
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WampaLord posted:Which is insane, because it got 6 seasons. That's a show naturally dying, not being cancelled before it's time. Plus wasn't it canceled because in spite of having good ratings for the time slot it cost more than they wanted to spend?
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May 16, 2017 23:45
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Feinne posted:Plus wasn't it canceled because in spite of having good ratings for the time slot it cost more than they wanted to spend? the ratings were overblown, it had good aggregate ratings but it was mostly angry people aged 50+. it had crap ratings in the 18-49 demo which is what tv execs really care about. ABC isn't fox news, they don't need an aging demo out for political validation. that + the show is in syndication now + high production costs due to relatively high cost talent (i'd imagine tim allen was getting as much as he could since this is likely the twilight of his career) meant that it was time to cancel now tim allen is going to whine about hollywood liberals rather than face reality and admit he's a faded star with no remaining appeal. it's interesting how stars with ascending careers never have to complain about politically correct hollyweird to get a camera pointed at them
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May 17, 2017 00:00
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Days like today are why I started listening to Master Shake in the first place. 
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May 17, 2017 00:12
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Xibanya posted:Oh yeah so on that Nattyreview article I mentioned, I was going to return to post on it because it was pretty lol (it was a lot of words to say the Trump leaking to Russia story was nothing, then with a small update at the bottom saying it was actually something, but not that big a deal) but it seems to have been pushed down on the front page. National Review has been anti-war-on-drugs / pro-MJ-legalization for decades, it's one of their "No we're *libertarians*" positions
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May 17, 2017 00:17
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FBS posted:Days like today are why I started listening to Master Shake in the first place. omg I haven't checked on him yet. Did he have a stroke on air? Please tell me he had a stroke on air.
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May 17, 2017 00:31
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Xibanya posted:omg I haven't checked on him yet. Did he have a stroke on air? Please tell me he had a stroke on air. How could you tell?
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May 17, 2017 00:40
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GreyjoyBastard posted:How could you tell? It's easy, he might stop screeching for once.
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May 17, 2017 00:43
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GreyjoyBastard posted:How could you tell? He sounds like Meatwad instead?
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May 17, 2017 00:43
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Spite posted:I'm completely convinced there is a large undercurrent of the baby boomers getting older, realizing they aren't immortal, and also seeing that another generation has different ideas. They world has passed them by and that's terrifying. Or maybe that's just the conservatives I know personally. I think it's a huge under current I've noticed in the right wing gen xers I know. They're upset that everything they've known is changing and that think that it's wrong that the social mores of the 80s aren't acceptable anymore. An example I've had is that things were fine back than because you had an extreme stereotype of a Trans person/cross dresser was in the movie. (Movie was The Last Dragon, if anyone is curious) it's the single consistent feature of conservatism, things are different and they hate and fear that
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May 17, 2017 01:33
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Spite posted:I'm completely convinced there is a large undercurrent of the baby boomers getting older, realizing they aren't immortal, and also seeing that another generation has different ideas. They world has passed them by and that's terrifying. Or maybe that's just the conservatives I know personally. To be fair, the Dems are doing their best Principal Skinner impersonation, too. "Single payer? No. They clearly want earned income tax credits."
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May 17, 2017 01:35
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Mark Levin is trying so hard.
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May 17, 2017 01:44
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Sir Tonk posted:Hold on, they were actually going after that kid that Pence smacked? Heartfelt apology has been issued  Tammy Bruce posted:First of all, I am so sorry to the family. My intention was never to hurt a kid and his mom. We had absolutely no idea that Michael was on the autism spectrum. And as a gay woman and feminist, I have spent most of my adult life working to improve the lives of women and children and those who are disenfranchised. I get it and I apologize. I also appreciated the boy’s mother — Dr. Herrera-Yee’s — public comments, and her clarity on this. A main lesson here, no matter intent, is to leave kids out of our political discussions. We certainly agree on this.
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May 17, 2017 02:03
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"ai had no intention of attacking a kid when I attacked a kid." Either that or "He was austic? My bad. I thought I was just attacking a normal kid." You know. Good defenses.
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May 17, 2017 02:09
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Master Shake posted:On Tuesday’s Mark Levin show, There is a concerted effort by the media and the Democrat Party to take out President Donald Trump. The latest in the New York Times is that a memo written by James Comey in February claims that Trump asked him to end the investigation into Mike Flynn. This is a self-serving contemporaneous memo. According to the memo, the President told Comey that he hoped Comey could let this go. Comey is a leaker and person who destroyed the FBI. He doesn’t like the way he was fired and the fact he was fired, so is striking back. If this is obstruction, why would Comey wait 2 and a half months later to show this memo? Only after Trump fired him does this become a major issue. Comey is really a modern day J. Edgar Hoover. This is just another phony scandal with the disgusting and deceitful left wing media. Congress should ask Comey where his memos are and how many he has and should be directed to preserve those memos. In addition, we have Democrat media outlets like the New York Times receiving classified information via leaks. The leakers are committing felonies. The irony is that the leakers are undermining the President and Israel yet nothing is done about them. What is being done to Trump in this presidency is unprecedented and worse than what they did to Ronald Reagan. Later, Trump said repeatedly that he would move the embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, now he won’t even recognize that the Western Wall belongs to Israel. Why is it that we recognize 219 countries and yet with our closest ally we refuse to put our embassy in their capital? We have to get permission from Hamas, Mahmoud Abbas and others to acknowledge our closest ally who shares intelligence with us. I like how for two days in a row Levin has complained about the embassy thing while also defending Trump from all other criticism. I wonder if he's priming his audience for when he decides to stop publicly supporting Trump but over this embassy thing rather than admitting on air that Levin has been dead wrong about everything since January.
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May 17, 2017 02:56
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Kekekela posted:Heartfelt apology has been issued I didn't know who Tammy Bruce was before this, but reading her wikipedia page you can tell there is an exact single crystallizing moment that cemented her as a total rear end in a top hat. See if you can pick it out: quote:Bruce collaborated with Los Angeles professional women to create one of the first ad hoc independent pro-choice activist groups. The group's early feminist activism began in 1987. This group confronted anti-abortion group protesters, and helped develop a strategy to stop "Operation Rescue" from successfully blocking the entrance to abortion clinics. During the years 1987–1990 she also participated in the Los Angeles chapter of the AIDS activist group AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power (ACT-UP). If you guessed "tried to play down/completely ignore the racial element of the OJ trial to the point where she was actively being called racist and proceeded to sell out her gender and join the conservative movement", you win! (for real though, going from pro-choice advocate/ACT-UP participant/NOW board member to "well maybe us gay people don't really need full civil rights" is quite the jump)
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May 17, 2017 08:16
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DC Murderverse posted:I didn't know who Tammy Bruce was before this, but reading her wikipedia page you can tell there is an exact single crystallizing moment that cemented her as a total rear end in a top hat. See if you can pick it out: Haha I'd actually forgotten where I'd first heard that name until you posted that, it was her campaign against American Psycho. I was in college and a huge Brett Easton Ellis fan at the time.
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May 17, 2017 11:33
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Leofish posted:The Daily Stormer is in Spanish now. https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...228-gunj2l.html quote:Queensland tradie has emerged as the sole corporate sponsor of one of the world's most popular neo-Nazi websites, drawing condemnation from a Jewish civil rights organisation. https://smerffelectrical.com/ 
SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 13:01 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 12:49
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https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/864637860166725632
ZDar Fan fucked around with this message at 13:29 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 12:58
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So has RWM begun finding their talking points on the latest yet? "Comey should have resigned immediately!" Something like that?
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May 17, 2017 14:06
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Zwabu posted:So has RWM begun finding their talking points on the latest yet?
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May 17, 2017 14:15
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Zwabu posted:So has RWM begun finding their talking points on the latest yet? See Master Shake above, also this thinger: https://xibanya.github.io/frontpages for a menu of poo poo talking points. I am assigned seating with my manager next to me and my micromanager behind me so I'm phone posting and can't make the big images myself without getting in trouble  I'm a dev. I deserve better treatment. (We all deserve better treatment.) This is the future conservatives want. 
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May 17, 2017 15:07
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GET BACK TO WORK for your glorious corporate overlords. 
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May 17, 2017 15:39
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A co-worker (luckily a remote) referred to Levin as a "constitutional scholar". I think I remember him doing something for some republican president but that's certainly not an accurate description, right?
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May 17, 2017 16:13
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