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drat Dirty Ape posted:I think one of the most satisfying things in this game may be burning the entire wood elf forest to the ground one city at a time. Personally I enjoy watching the dregs of an enemy army charge at my Empire gunline and just vanish.
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May 17, 2017 04:17
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My personal fav is dwarf irondrakes in the back of an undead horde. Super metal
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May 17, 2017 04:21
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 Seems appropriate for this thread.
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May 17, 2017 04:25
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That should be in the OP for TW:W2 for lizardpersons. Empire should keep the Archaon stomp, maybe orcs should get the gif of an orc getting launched off the boar by a cannon and Bretonnia gets the one of some peasants being knocked around by cavalry.
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May 17, 2017 05:09
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Does melee defense count when being attacked from outside the hurtbox (so the flank or behind)?
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May 17, 2017 06:04
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If you have the finance for them, Should you ever use Swordsmen over Greatswords in campaign?
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May 17, 2017 06:11
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Ze Pollack posted:Appreciating that they're keeping the core Lizardmen weakness of "you will have all day to try to shoot us to death." Interested by the berserk thing. I wouldn't say saurus were particularly slow though. They went just as fast as the average human unit. Goddamnit, I miss WHFB. 
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May 17, 2017 06:11
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Onmi posted:If you have the finance for them, Should you ever use Swordsmen over Greatswords in campaign? If you're facing an opponent with large amounts of AP ranged fire I guess.
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May 17, 2017 06:34
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Safety Factor posted:Their front rank also got extra attacks on any to-hit roll of a 6. I'm guessing they're trying to find a way to represent both aspects of that rule. Aiming for a positive and negative aspect for the trait. It'll be interesting to see it all in action. Did they do away with the 2 attacks per model for Saurus or did they keep that? Use to be that made spear saurus very strong.
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May 17, 2017 10:52
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Baron Porkface posted:Does melee defense count when being attacked from outside the hurtbox (so the flank or behind)? Yes but it's reduced to 75% from flanks and 40% from rear
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May 17, 2017 11:38
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Onmi posted:If you have the finance for them, Should you ever use Swordsmen over Greatswords in campaign? Yes because they are far better at absorbing ranged fire, get nice buffs from 'Honest Steel' (which is a good thing for all Empire generals to train), and are cheaper to keep around. I recently played through an Empire campaign and swordsman remained my bread and butter tar pit type unit for the entire game. I know that you said you have the finances, but there is always a balance between having elite units or multiple armies of more basic units. Don't get me wrong, Greatswords can do a ton of damage against certain armies and units, but they can get quickly mulched by ranged especially when fighting something like wood elves.
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May 17, 2017 11:55
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You could always get more steamtanks instead if you want to splurge.
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May 17, 2017 12:25
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I find swordsmen are a decent option right up until Chaos roll into town, at which point they just melt immediately in battles.
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May 17, 2017 13:00
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They are pretty awful against dwarves and the better VC units, also.
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May 17, 2017 13:08
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AttitudeAdjuster posted:I find swordsmen are a decent option right up until Chaos roll into town, at which point they just melt immediately in battles. I'll admit, past the early game crush with other Empire Factions (who have no cavalry or monsters, typically) I switch over to Spearmen/Halberds and Flaggelants as my line units the rest of the game, with a few Greatswords in my main stack mostly to use against Chaos. I don't think Swordsmen specifically are all that versatile in the long run.
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May 17, 2017 13:09
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madmac posted:I'll admit, past the early game crush with other Empire Factions (who have no cavalry or monsters, typically) I switch over to Spearmen/Halberds and Flaggelants as my line units the rest of the game, with a few Greatswords in my main stack mostly to use against Chaos. I don't think Swordsmen specifically are all that versatile in the long run. Swordsmen are pretty much hot garbage. A unit of swordsmen is substantially worse than a unit of plain old Goblins (they have a little more leadership, melee attack, and armor, but 20% less missile deflection and 30 less men).
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May 17, 2017 13:16
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Wallet posted:Swordsmen are pretty much hot garbage. A unit of swordsmen is substantially worse than a unit of plain old Goblins (they have a little more leadership, melee attack, and armor, but 20% less missile deflection and 30 less men). I'd take the leadership, attack and armour over the missile deflection and unit count tbh. Also are you taking honest steel into account for those stats? I used swordsmen all the way through my campaign and they worked just fine
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May 17, 2017 13:26
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Definitely check out the custom settlements pack. Since getting it I am playing out all the piddly little fights and revolts instead of auto resolving. It also makes attacking cities more fun because they often give you multiple angles of attack. And Dwarves love choke points. Every battle is some Battle of Thermopylae as Dwarves desperately hold off hordes of savage orcs. A lot of the maps actively sabotage ranged units and artillery with a lot of terrain blocking line of sight, but at the same time units with Vanguard deployment and stalk are a lot more useful, since they can function as spotters, scouts, or flank enemies from different angles. Really the only drag is there's no walls, because it can't be modded for some reason. That's too bad, as it would be really neat to have lots of unique fortifications. I love the idea of employing defense in depth where you have a series of defensive lines to fall back on, but so far they don't offer enough opportunities for this. Being able to have arrow towers in unique configurations would be really neat too, or a really long stretch of wall that becomes much more difficult to fully defend.
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May 17, 2017 13:50
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Wafflecopper posted:I'd take the leadership, attack and armour over the missile deflection and unit count tbh. Also are you taking honest steel into account for those stats? I used swordsmen all the way through my campaign and they worked just fine No, but I'm not including Skarsnik's goblin skills either. The increased unit size comes with an increase in unit health, and the armor difference is only 5; the point was simply that Swordsmen are on-par or worse than other militia units. Swordsmen do work just fine, they're just not very good for anything beyond tying up enemy units.
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May 17, 2017 14:20
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Comparisons between factions are going to be inherently kinda iffy.
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May 17, 2017 15:06
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Wallet posted:No, but I'm not including Skarsnik's goblin skills either. The increased unit size comes with an increase in unit health, and the armor difference is only 5; the point was simply that Swordsmen are on-par or worse than other militia units. Swordsmen do work just fine, they're just not very good for anything beyond tying up enemy units. I mean that's all militia style units though. And due to the armor and leadership along with the shield, swordsman can effectively tarpit any faction. Gobbo shields do nothing against vampires and their leadership means they are going to run away pretty quick for an example. Of course that's kind of cherry picking since orcs get two tarpit infantry to handle different situations and boyz will knock some undead heads off. Plus, humans dont need a super strong anvil since they have so many hammers in their arsenal.
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May 17, 2017 15:41
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Randarkman posted:Did they do away with the 2 attacks per model for Saurus or did they keep that? Use to be that made spear saurus very strong. I remember back in 6th that saurus had a rule specifically calling them out like that. At the time, I think they were the only 2 attack spear infantry in the game. 8th allowed all units one extra rank of attacks and spears granted an additional rank so they had to make it a universal rule.
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May 17, 2017 16:32
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Panfilo posted:Definitely check out the custom settlements pack. Since getting it I am playing out all the piddly little fights and revolts instead of auto resolving. It also makes attacking cities more fun because they often give you multiple angles of attack. The custom settlements sounds cool but I've repeatedly heard that it makes the AI pants on head retarded. Have they somehow fixed that problem?
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May 17, 2017 16:34
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Wallet posted:There are a few, in the screenshots for the mod (Hawk Banner is new, so is Bog Standard). Most of them add existing imbuements (like Sunder Armor on hit or Blind or what have you), though there is one new imbuement effect. Is that steel faith compatible? Because I wanna use those in it.
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May 17, 2017 16:42
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Safety Factor posted:Saurus still had 2 attacks each, but the rules in 8th edition made it so that models in supporting ranks only got 1 attack each. Only the front rank fought at full effectiveness. Yeah other than high elf infantry blocks.
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May 17, 2017 16:47
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Southpaugh posted:Yeah other than high elf infantry blocks. As in all other things, high elfs are complete bullshit.
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May 17, 2017 17:02
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In a topic unrelated to militia units, now that I have the banners more-or-less squared away (there are tons more that could be added, but I don't have many ideas for new things that they might do), I have what I think is an interesting idea for how to implement musicians. I don't know anything about Warhammer lore, though, so I was wondering if one of you who does could tell me if there is anything I should know. Like, are there any factions that would absolutely not use musicians in battle (Vampire Counts seems sort of weird to me, but what do I know)? Do orcs have a religious belief in drums as the superior battlefield instrument? Does Bretonnia have a burgeoning bugle culture? I have no idea, maybe someone can fill me in.Lynneth posted:Is that steel faith compatible? Because I wanna use those in it. It should be compatible with any mod you want. That is, it shouldn't cause crashes or anything (it doesn't overwrite any core tables), but if Steel Faith is modifying banners as well then whichever mod's .pack file comes last alphabetically will overwrite the other's changes. Panfilo posted:Definitely check out the custom settlements pack. Which one? Wallet fucked around with this message at 17:18 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 17:04
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Lynneth posted:Is that steel faith compatible? Because I wanna use those in it. I use steel faith and like 10 other mods, including this one, with no issues
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May 17, 2017 17:08
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Captain Beans posted:The custom settlements sounds cool but I've repeatedly heard that it makes the AI pants on head retarded. Have they somehow fixed that problem? It's not too bad on some maps I played, but they'd need to really change some little things to make the most out of it. A lot of it is pathing weirdness because the engine doesn't seem to handle units of 120 dudes maneuvering around impossible terrain efficiently. For example, many maps give tons of areas attackers can deploy from, but the AI always deploys in the exact same spot and didn't make the most out of it. Barak Varr, for example, has an 'island' which defenders can use multiple bridges to form choke points. But the attackers have like 7 areas they can attack from so they could force the defenders to spread themselves thin. Unfortunately the AI really doesn't take advantage of this and always attacks from one bridge. Vanguard deployment is a lot better because there is more 'neutral' spots on many maps letting you place units, and I could see a beastmen army being an absolute nightmare to defend against what with Ungors appearing all over the drat place. Assuming the AI could make the most of it.
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May 17, 2017 17:11
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Southpaugh posted:Yeah other than high elf infantry blocks. High Elves didn't get any 2 attack units though 
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May 17, 2017 17:30
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Wafflecopper posted:High Elves didn't get any 2 attack units though High Elves got to fight in an extra rank, so 3 ranks normally or 4 for spearmen (5 for spearmen in hordes). But they did get a 2 attack unit in the Swordmaster
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May 17, 2017 17:33
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Wafflecopper posted:High Elves didn't get any 2 attack units though High elf spearmen had three ranks of 1 attack, which made them worse than saurus with 2 ranks of 2 attacks. 5 wide x 1 attack x 3 ranks = 15, 5 wide x 2 attacks x 2 ranks = 20. Saurus were way better than elves in 6th, elves sucked.
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May 17, 2017 17:33
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Wafflecopper posted:High Elves didn't get any 2 attack units though They all had that bullshit rule where they always fought in three ranks and spears made it four. They also had Always Strike First which was completely busted when they added the re-rolls to hit if you already had higher initiative than your opponents'. For elves, this was almost always the case. Elves. 
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May 17, 2017 17:36
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We're all mad. Mad about elves.
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May 17, 2017 17:36
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Safety Factor posted:Swordmasters. In 7th edition, they had a special rule that acted LIKE ASF, but wasn't actually ASF. This means (and was confirmed in faq/errata) that even elves with Always Strikes Last weapons got to always strike first, since the army book specific rule overwrote the general book rule. In 8th edition, it was updated to just be Always Strikes First so it canceled out with Always Strikes Last. This combined with the new reroll rule for ASF made great weapon elves a bit weaker (although White Lions remained a staple of competitive lists)
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May 17, 2017 17:40
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Other than ROR units and armored units, swordsmen with full honest steel (which needs a rank 4 general) only get handily beat by wardancers, savage orcs, big 'uns, and monstrous infantry; they otherwise just die really, really slowly which makes them a really great tarpit even against anti-infantry armored units. I don't see how they can be poo poo if they punch that high above their weight class-- they're the first unit you can recruit as Empire!
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May 17, 2017 19:19
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I've never felt greatswords performed that well, you are almost always better off tarpit+flank with ranged against AI. So I like swordsmen and halbs. trying to beat units in 1 to 1 matchups will usually leave you with mass casualties
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May 17, 2017 19:21
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Lynneth posted:Is that steel faith compatible? Because I wanna use those in it. At this point I've just thrown caution to the wind and stacked Cataph's Magic, Starting Traits Remastered, Empire Legitimacy, Legendary Wizard Lords, and the Followers & Items Overhaul on top of SFO. It hasn't caused any crashes, but there's definitely gaps in the whole combination (particularly with Legendary Lord items). That said, it worked out a lot better than I thought it would, and while some stuff might be overpowered (Gelt spamming a permanent and stacking -30 armor on key targets with a 7 second cooldown), I'm having enough fun to justify it.
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May 17, 2017 19:43
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Does anyone know how the Lorehammer Overhaul is?
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May 17, 2017 23:55
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jokes posted:Other than ROR units and armored units, swordsmen with full honest steel (which needs a rank 4 general) only get handily beat by wardancers, savage orcs, big 'uns, and monstrous infantry; they otherwise just die really, really slowly which makes them a really great tarpit even against anti-infantry armored units. I don't see how they can be poo poo if they punch that high above their weight class-- they're the first unit you can recruit as Empire! This is my experience. They don't kill much of anything, but they do a good job of bogging down other things so my other units can kill them and they are very cheap. Sure, late game chaos and dwarfs will win with few casualties, but it will take them a while and you can afford a lot of them (and recruit them very quickly). Also, unlike chaos and the dwarfs the empire doesn't really get an upgraded 'tar pit' style of infantry anyway.
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May 18, 2017 00:06
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