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jivjov posted:Man, how much cognitive dissonance does it take to look at the sentence "some slaves were treated quite well" and prioritize "treated quite well" over "slaves"? Like, it doesn't matter if they got 4 course meals and a feather bed...they were still literally owned by another person. its not even dissonance, they're just trying to minimize the reality of human bondage because they've dehumanized the person in bondage already. aka they're bigots doing a poor job of hiding it
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May 17, 2017 16:16
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jivjov posted:Man, how much cognitive dissonance does it take to look at the sentence "some slaves were treated quite well" and prioritize "treated quite well" over "slaves"? Like, it doesn't matter if they got 4 course meals and a feather bed...they were still literally owned by another person.
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May 17, 2017 16:23
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Guavanaut posted:Some slaves were treated quite well, they got food and shelter, now let me tell you about how socialism is slavery and giving people food and shelter is terrible because they'll become slaves to the big government.
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May 17, 2017 16:30
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There is no cognitive dissonance there. Socialism is government slavery which is bad. Chattel slavery was just free market slavery and the government enforcing contract law like it is supposed to. ... I am amazed any one can think that without their head exploding.
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May 17, 2017 16:34
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Remember: the first slaves were white. Ask the Romans.
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May 17, 2017 16:37
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Here's one that got deleted but is worth posting,
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May 17, 2017 17:27
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Yeah Russian intelligence would totally leave him alive and responsive when police arrived.
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May 17, 2017 17:29
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Yeah Russian intelligence would totally leave him alive and responsive when police arrived. its kind of wild how the alt right is normally freaking out about black crime and protecting yourself from violent criminals but in this case, where a man was shot dead in a relatively dangerous city by an unknown assailant, the immediate assumption is that a white woman is responsible
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May 17, 2017 18:06
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darthbob88 posted:To be fair, some actually were treated well. I forget if it was this or the MilHist thread, somebody mentioned coming across an account of a plantation owner who hated the practice of slavery and lamented that he couldn't just free his slaves now, What was stopping him?
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May 17, 2017 19:48
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I think it's funny that people think that the reasonable thing to do after screwing up a mugging, getting into a struggle, and then firing a loud as hell gun multiple times in a populated area is to then gently caress around with a bleeding struggling man to try and take their watch and wallet. I'm like the least criminally minded person ever and my first thought is "get the gently caress away before you get arrested for murder."
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May 17, 2017 19:49
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VideoTapir posted:What was stopping him? It actually was against the law in a lot of places to do that. If you tried to free your own slaves they would just be auctioned to someone else
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May 17, 2017 19:52
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Al Borland Corp. posted:It actually was against the law in a lot of places to do that. If you tried to free your own slaves they would just be auctioned to someone else On top of that, teaching slaves to read was a prosecutable offense in some states. The south was scared stiff at the idea of slave revolts.
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May 17, 2017 20:11
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Please do not trigger me with rings.
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May 17, 2017 20:12
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VideoTapir posted:What was stopping him? in many places it was illegal to free your slaves, and if it wasn't at the very least if you found some way to free your slaves (who would then immediately have to leave town forever) you would have no way to work your property and family land, meaning you also would have to sell that and leave town, severing all social and family ties. it would absolutely be a social death sentence to so absolutely reject the underpinnings of a white supremacist slaver society like that. and this is in an era when even moderately wealthy people wouldn't commonly travel more than a couple hundred miles this should absolutely in no way be construted as a defense of the slaver aristocracy or the racial oppression which was the very foundation of the southern planter society, but - if you were born into it, you had very few, practically no, avenues of escape without completely renouncing all wealth and your family name in an era when radical reinvention wasn't really possible and your personal reputation and family ties largely defined who you were. it would be absolute social suicide to take a step that large, which is a lot to ask of individuals like the most liberal bleeding heart slave owners had the attitude "this is wrong, but what can you do - it's society, how can i change it?" and if you still think that it's just as simple as freeing your slaves and changing everything about the way you live, why haven't you 100% rejected capitalism yet to live like Eustace Conway? my point being that it's way easier to tell people what they should do rather than completely disconnect themselves from the society they were born and raised in, on which their entire life is based Dr. Arbitrary posted:I think it's funny that people think that the reasonable thing to do after screwing up a mugging, getting into a struggle, and then firing a loud as hell gun multiple times in a populated area is to then gently caress around with a bleeding struggling man to try and take their watch and wallet. it's like the world doesn't operate by video game rules where you kill a mob and then loot the corpse boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 20:14
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In antebellum south, mob kills you!
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May 17, 2017 20:20
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So, ClickHole, the Onion's clickbait parody site rebranded itself to PatriotHole. We get to enjoy such gems as this now Berkeley Scientists Have Engineered An Unstoppable Mecha-‘Dreamer’ Capable Of Stealing 6 Jobs At Once Personally, I'm waiting for the ones that sound plausible so we can start to see who unironically posts them as real news.
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May 17, 2017 21:13
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darthbob88 posted:To be fair, some actually were treated well. I forget if it was this or the MilHist thread, somebody mentioned coming across an account of a plantation owner who hated the practice of slavery and lamented that he couldn't just free his slaves now, so instead he was just really nice to them and actually let them get an education. There really was at least one kind slave owner! I think that was Mel Gibson in The Patriot. The English come to free his slaves and the slaves go "we are not slaves. We are paid workers" Where would a black person at the time even spend money?
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May 17, 2017 22:20
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Catberry posted:I think that was Mel Gibson in The Patriot. Smart investment would be on their own slaves
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May 17, 2017 22:26
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Catberry posted:I think that was Mel Gibson in The Patriot.
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May 17, 2017 22:28
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boner confessor posted:in many places it was illegal to free your slaves, and if it wasn't at the very least if you found some way to free your slaves (who would then immediately have to leave town forever) you would have no way to work your property and family land, meaning you also would have to sell that and leave town, severing all social and family ties. it would absolutely be a social death sentence to so absolutely reject the underpinnings of a white supremacist slaver society like that. and this is in an era when even moderately wealthy people wouldn't commonly travel more than a couple hundred miles Also freeing your slaves opened them up to being kidnapped and sold back into slavery, as the South was hardly above randomly grabbing black people it saw and ignoring them when they insisted that they were free men with the paperwork to prove it. I think there were even cases of free blacks in northern abolitionist states being kidnapped and sold to plantations. Selling his slaves could have easily been a death sentence for them because they'd no longer be under his protection on his property.
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May 17, 2017 22:28
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Catberry posted:I think that was Mel Gibson in The Patriot. this is before the cash economy took hold so workers would have most likely been paid in food, lodging, and land to grow their own crops. the only people who were earning wages at this point were people who were high enough in the organizational tree at a cash generating business but not high enough to leave and start their own business. even people who earned cash this is why plantations really only work with enslaved/indentured labor, as before the widespread availability of credit it would be a payroll nightmare to employ that many paid workers in agricultural labor since the planters themselves lurched from cash rich to credit poor because of the harvest cycle but you're right, even if there was such a thing as a free black fieldhand paid in cash in a rural area it's not like they can just run on down to the store and expect to be treated fairly. this is why many freed former slaves took off to the frontier to become independent yeoman farmers, where they could settle near towns and all this is ignoring, of course the sheer absurdity that we're expected to believe that a bunch of black skinned fieldhands in wherever pre revolution america ( i looked it up, it's south carolina lol) aren't slaves? gently caress off mel gibson boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:35 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:31
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boner confessor posted:this is before the cash economy took hold so workers would have most likely been paid in food, lodging, and land to grow their own food. the only people who were earning wages at this point were people who were high enough in the organizational tree at a cash generating business but not high enough to leave and start their own business. this is why plantations really only work with enslaved/indentured labor, as before the widespread availability of credit it would be a payroll nightmare to employ that many paid workers in agricultural labor since the planters themselves lurched from cash rich to credit poor because of the harvest cycle It pisses me off that the only British soldier to object to burning a church full of civilians was actually American born. Could he not bare to have a single English man not be a total monster? The well dressed French general was great, and I feel like the movie tried to make fun of him but actually made him the coolest dude in the film.
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May 17, 2017 22:36
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chitoryu12 posted:Also freeing your slaves opened them up to being kidnapped and sold back into slavery, as the South was hardly above randomly grabbing black people it saw and ignoring them when they insisted that they were free men with the paperwork to prove it. I think there were even cases of free blacks in northern abolitionist states being kidnapped and sold to plantations. Selling his slaves could have easily been a death sentence for them because they'd no longer be under his protection on his property. yeah, this is why they would have to leave. there were very few free black southerners before the war, and they were constantly navigating awful restrictions and were legally lumped in with slaves, they were basically self-owning slaves (how generous) who could be sold into slavery for intensely petty and absurd violations of the law. this is how southern states managed to perpetuate some portion of the slave system even after the war, and is the foundation on which jim crow was built Strom Cuzewon posted:It pisses me off that the only British soldier to object to burning a church full of civilians was actually American born. Could he not bare to have a single English man not be a total monster? i dont know for sure but i'd bet money that didn't actually happen irl, so no the point is to make the english as evil as possible while claiming that your hero is such a saint that he's the one guy who doesn't own slaves on his south carolina plantation boner confessor fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:39
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boner confessor posted:i dont know for sure but i'd bet money that didn't actually happen irl, so no the point is to make the english as evil as possible while claiming that your hero is such a saint that he's the one guy who doesn't own slaves on his south carolina plantation
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May 17, 2017 22:55
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darthbob88 posted:The church burning didn't happen during the American Revolution, that was a Nazi atrocity the filmmakers attributed to the English to, yeah, make them cartoonishly evil. I've been reading the Wikipedia section on the controversy, it really is a hoot. quote:The historian Richard F. Snow, editor of American Heritage magazine, said of the church-burning scene: "Of course it never happened—if it had do you think Americans would have forgotten it? It could have kept us out of World War I."
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May 17, 2017 23:00
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chitoryu12 posted:Also freeing your slaves opened them up to being kidnapped and sold back into slavery, as the South was hardly above randomly grabbing black people it saw and ignoring them when they insisted that they were free men with the paperwork to prove it. I think there were even cases of free blacks in northern abolitionist states being kidnapped and sold to plantations. Selling his slaves could have easily been a death sentence for them because they'd no longer be under his protection on his property. Slave owners in the South who had runaways would also generally just say "yup, that's him!" to any random black person brought in front of them. Given that a freed slave was probably also illiterate the paperwork didn't matter; they couldn't read it so there was no way they could defend themselves against somebody that looked at it and went "hmmmm no actually it says here you aren't actually free now go pick some cotton before I whip you." Didn't matter how free a black person was in America; there was always the possibility that a white guy from the South would just go "oh yes, totes my slave, that one. Yup. Definitely. No way I'd lie about that sort of thing! That would be wrong." Wasn't much the black person could do about it; how friendly do you suppose the legal system was to any member of a race that was deemed sub-human and only fit to be owned like cattle? ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:48
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boner confessor posted:i dont know for sure but i'd bet money that didn't actually happen irl, so no the point is to make the english as evil as possible while claiming that your hero is such a saint that he's the one guy who doesn't own slaves on his south carolina plantation "Mel Gibson, a racist? Well, I never!" darthbob88 posted:There were free black people at the time, so presumably there were some people who'd be willing to sell to a paid black worker. And no, pookel didn't give a source, but I'm prepared to accept that there actually was at least one honestly regretful slave owner. Possibly as many as two. It's really irrelevant. The problem with slavery isn't the individual abuses, it's that there's no recourse for the slaves if they are abused. There would have to be a spectrum of slave masters from overly cruel to basically kind, but even if a slave won the lottery and was treated "well," there's nothing to stop the master from changing his mind and becoming more cruel or selling the slave to someone else. So, anyone got some good David Clarke memes? I ask because it was just announced he'll have a new role as Assistant Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. I just found out that he once suggested suspending habeas corpus and locking up a million terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay.
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May 18, 2017 00:36
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quote:You need to distinguish between the scientific method and what has come to be known as "Scientism." The scientific method is a mode of investigation, nothing more. In itself it is non-sectarian, non-partisan, non-sexual. Not long ago science was viewed as an method of discerning the "mind of God" through studying the laws of nature. Now, for various reasons, science in the public imagination is allied with atheism and looked to as final arbiter in all matters of the greatest importance to humanity, which as you indicate, is a mistake.
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May 18, 2017 00:48
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darthbob88 posted:There were free black people at the time, so presumably there were some people who'd be willing to sell to a paid black worker. And no, pookel didn't give a source, but I'm prepared to accept that there actually was at least one honestly regretful slave owner. Possibly as many as two. George washington loved his slaves so much he set them free after he died
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May 18, 2017 01:14
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Jurgan posted:"Mel Gibson, a racist? Well, I never!" I need the David Clarke 'Dog Diarrhea Helmet' one if anyone is kind enough to post it.
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May 18, 2017 01:21
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Ainsley McTree posted:George washington loved his slaves so much he set them free after he died Only his own, Martha's remained enslaved until some of their descendants were eventually freed by Robert E. Lee himself  History is hosed up
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May 18, 2017 01:30
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Mondian posted:Only his own, Martha's remained enslaved until some of their descendants were eventually freed by Robert E. Lee himself Didn't know that last part lmao. Life comes at you fast I guess
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May 18, 2017 01:50
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It pisses me off that the only British soldier to object to burning a church full of civilians was actually American born. Could he not bare to have a single English man not be a total monster? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFuqk6QsHbI&t=127s
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May 18, 2017 02:24
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I have friends who are proud Libertarians. They like to share Libertarian memes about how both sides are exactly equally as bad.  And a little something from PatriotHole about gun control.
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May 18, 2017 04:03
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who is still whining about light bulbs in tyool 2017
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May 18, 2017 04:04
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boner confessor posted:who is still whining about light bulbs in tyool 2017 Freep.
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May 18, 2017 04:09
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boner confessor posted:who is still whining about light bulbs in tyool 2017 I wager that there were very few/zero people whining. But, in somebody's imagination, EVERYONE was whining about it, and that's the version they chose to run with.
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May 18, 2017 04:21
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the_steve posted:I wager that there were very few/zero people whining. that makes them the whiners, the person who posts the "i'm so much better than the sheeple" macro
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May 18, 2017 04:44
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boner confessor posted:who is still whining about light bulbs in tyool 2017 coyo7e fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 05:08
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boner confessor posted:who is still whining about light bulbs in tyool 2017
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May 18, 2017 05:09
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