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There's no new content in this 4 min video btw, but a lot of love for fanartists. Says event will end 6/12.
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May 17, 2017 19:17
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I got halfway through before I realized they weren't going to say what the event was :-/
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May 17, 2017 19:22
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playing a lot of mystery heroes mostly teaches you to be better at mystery heroes but you can get some takeaways on things like pushing with your team and dear God how do I kill this mercy. but for learning a specific hero it's garbage. if you don't know how to play them you usually die before you pick anything up and you aren't learning how to deal with your counters so you can end up with an inflated sense of skill in playing a hero or in other words, ask me about my 23 kills/ no deaths game as tracer in mh
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May 17, 2017 19:22
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Ehud posted:I got halfway through before I realized they weren't going to say what the event was :-/ It's gonna be a community hats update
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May 17, 2017 19:25
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Nihilarian posted:this concept is more commonly known as skill Taking advantage of a weakness is your opponent's skillset is not necessarily indicative of personal skill, a Pharah can play like poo poo- not landing direct hit, not knowing how to weave in and out of cover to avoid getting shot, etc- and still climb fairly well, despite their own skill not being all that great. This is because they are exploiting their opponent's inability to aim and target prioritize. Climbing high in overwatch requires both personal skill and the ability to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. It's a lot harder to learn how to improve your own personal skill if you learn how to exploit an opponent's weakness' first, because exploitative gameplay is very binary- are they making a mistake/have this weakness or do they not. If you don't have that weakness or make a mistake you can punish, then you get punished for not having the requisite skill, and then you lose and drop SR. berenzen fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 19:28
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Main Paineframe posted:It's gonna be a community hats update All for Tracer.
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May 17, 2017 19:31
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Main Paineframe posted:It's gonna be a community hats update Everyone gets a little party hat 
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May 17, 2017 19:34
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Main Paineframe posted:It's gonna be a community hats update Don't toy with me like this.
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May 17, 2017 19:34
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berenzen posted:Taking advantage of a weakness is your opponent's skillset is not necessarily indicative of personal skill, a Pharah can play like poo poo- not landing direct hit, not knowing how to weave in and out of cover to avoid getting shot, etc- and still climb fairly well, despite their own skill not being all that great. This is because they are exploiting their opponent's inability to aim and target prioritize. Climbing high in overwatch requires both personal skill and the ability to exploit your opponent's weaknesses. It's a lot harder to learn how to improve your own personal skill if you learn how to exploit an opponent's weakness' first, because exploitative gameplay is very binary- are they making a mistake/have this weakness or do they not. If you don't have that weakness or make a mistake you can punish, then you get punished for not having the requisite skill, and then you lose and drop SR. I'm baffled by what is being called out here. Outplaying an opponent is trash unless its done with pure mechanical skill?
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May 17, 2017 19:37
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wit posted:I'm baffled by what is being called out here. Outplaying an opponent is trash unless its done with pure mechanical skill? I think it's like "using imbalance to win games isn't the same as getting better." except with more words. idk though.
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May 17, 2017 19:41
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i play roadhog 24/7 because he is the greatest character
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May 17, 2017 19:45
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wit posted:I'm baffled by what is being called out here. Outplaying an opponent is trash unless its done with pure mechanical skill? I think the point is that punishing misplays of your opponents only works when your opponents make lots of misplays.
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May 17, 2017 19:54
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TheMaskedUgly posted:I think the point is that punishing misplays of your opponents only works when your opponents make lots of misplays. A mix of this, and the fact that you can play like utter dogshit but if your opponent is unable to punish you for playing like dogshit doesn't automatically mean that you are not playing like dogshit. berenzen fucked around with this message at 20:22 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 20:02
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Main Paineframe posted:It's gonna be a community hats update Nah, that's not nearly fetishized enough to sell loot boxes. It's gonna be shoes.
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May 17, 2017 20:22
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Punishing misplay is a skill. And one that has value at every level of play, because we aren't robots. Even the pros make mistakes. There are heroes whose entire skillset revolves around punishing you for being out of position. So I don't see why Pharah should be singled out here - if she's skilled enough to take advantage of the opponents lovely play, she'll climb until she can't climb anymore - because the enemies are as skilled as her, and make fewer misplays and/or hit better shots.
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May 17, 2017 20:26
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I think the main thing though is that if you're one-tricking Pharah at low SR you may not actually understand what you're doing that is punishing your opponents. That doesn't mean you're not going to climb, but it also doesn't mean you're learning anything or improving in any way
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May 17, 2017 20:33
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I like all the talk like this is some hyper tuned esports game when blizzard balancing is done by a palsied guy arbitrarily slapping levers between good and bad without rhyme or reason
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May 17, 2017 20:44
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kumba posted:I think the main thing though is that if you're one-tricking Pharah at low SR you may not actually understand what you're doing that is punishing your opponents. That doesn't mean you're not going to climb, but it also doesn't mean you're learning anything or improving in any way juggalo baby coffin posted:I like all the talk like this is some hyper tuned esports game when blizzard balancing is done by a palsied guy arbitrarily slapping levers between good and bad without rhyme or reason
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May 17, 2017 20:48
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Exploiting a tactic that only works against people who don't yet understand how to counter it is not really analogous to skill. It's smart, yeah, but when people adapt you're brought back to earth. A cheesy tactic can work against a team of better players the first time, but then never again the next hundred. Skill is a more general indicator of ability.
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May 17, 2017 21:06
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Jeza posted:Exploiting a tactic that only works against people who don't yet understand how to counter it is not really analogous to skill. It's smart, yeah, but when people adapt you're brought back to earth.
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May 17, 2017 21:20
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pharah is also a very good hero to roll in mystery heroes because she's brainless easy when she's not being countered, for what it's worth
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May 17, 2017 21:55
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People don't like having to switch off characters they like just to counter and there is nothing that more obviously demands a specific counter than Pharmercy. As someone said previously, it's a binary "do I have the falloff range to hit her" question for most characters, rather than a "can I safely reach the right position to hit her by using spatial awareness and positioning". Low tier Pharahs have bad positioning. My friends routinely call out in qp that they have a "Pharah balloon", which is a Symmetra attached to the Pharah by her laser beam. But sometimes you encounter the Pharah that has good positioning, and at that point it feels unfair every time you die to her when you're not playing one of the hitscan crew. It makes people eat their own teammates for not taking care of a problem they personally can only hide from. It's more player feelings than balance, though nerfs to McCree/76/Ana don't help when a lot of players don't want to play Widow either. In the recent video about balancing, Blizz talked about both statistics (raw power and winrate of a hero) and player perception as being influencing factors on their character design. For Pharah these principles collide in a really ugly way, because to much of the player base Pharah is a god simply by existing, but statistically she is not OP and gets worse as she climbs. No one thinks Junkrat is a god. But he's ubiquitous and arguably pretty powerful in scrub tier. Something about his implementation keeps his kills from feeling unfair, and it might be that no one has to switch to something specific to counter him. Symm is the only other one people go crazy over in chat as far as I have seen. Symm is the result of more obvious positioning mistakes than Pharmercy, and does not demand a specific counter, but I don't have time rn to decode why her kills feel unfair to people.
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May 17, 2017 21:57
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turtlecrunch posted:Symm is the only other one people go crazy over in chat as far as I have seen. Symm is the result of more obvious positioning mistakes than Pharmercy, and does not demand a specific counter, but I don't have time rn to decode why her kills feel unfair to people. there isn't much to decode there. as one pubbie on the other team once told me during my sym potg, "lol using a trackball". she just feels unfair to people who can't aim because she doesn't require any, and there's a feeling of helplessness when you're getting destroyed by someone five feet away from you who just has to hold down left click to kill you
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May 17, 2017 22:14
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turtlecrunch posted:Symm is the only other one people go crazy over in chat as far as I have seen. Symm is the result of more obvious positioning mistakes than Pharmercy, and does not demand a specific counter, but I don't have time rn to decode why her kills feel unfair to people. It's a combination of factors. Off the top of my head: -laser chain staying leashed at distances most people think it should fall off -Symm jumps around which leads to the aiming impaired (me) being upset we can't shoot the tiny woman jumping around like a rabbit on crack -laser damage not resetting after a kill so under the right circumstances she can just mow through a group -nobody actively looks for the turrets she plops out which leads to deaths that feel cheap -laser chain stays leashed for a few moments when moving behind cover -the perception that not having to look at your victim+not having to aim leads to seeing an auto lock gun as cheap and unskilled There's more but I don't feel like typing it all out.
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May 17, 2017 22:15
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Exploitative gameplay can absolutely happen with every hero, it's just very prominent with Pharah in lower SR. This is because her strongest counters- Widow and McCree- require higher mechanical skill in order to actually counter her. Enough mechanical skill to push them out of the SR where pharah's are more prominent. After that point, the Pharah's that are in that bracket are the ones who have learned how to have proper mechanical skill to not just get dunked on endlessly by Widow/McCree players Exploitative gameplay is not skill- it's relying on the enemy not to have certain skill rather than having a skill. Punishing opponents for making mistakes is a skill, but that's not exploitative gameplay. Another example: Baiting out a roadhog hook and them punishing him for throwing said hook is a skill, standing directly in front of a roadhog that cannot land a hook to save his life and just shooting him is exploitative. The former is showing how well you can juke, the latter is literally just abusing the fact that hook accuracy is pisspoor at low levels and is something that you would get punished for at higher SR.
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May 17, 2017 22:22
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When Roadhog hooks Mei, can she no longer turn herself into an ice cube before getting shot? I haven't played Mei in a few months but last time I did I was able to hold shift as soon as I got hooked so that I would ice cube before being shot?
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May 17, 2017 23:16
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Roadhog used to have to step forward before shooting Mei. He no longer has to now, meaning he can get his shot off before the stun wears off.
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May 17, 2017 23:20
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berenzen posted:Roadhog used to have to step forward before shooting Mei. He no longer has to now, meaning he can get his shot off before the stun wears off. This clears up that mystery. Thanks!
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May 17, 2017 23:22
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berenzen posted:Exploitative gameplay can absolutely happen with every hero, it's just very prominent with Pharah in lower SR. This is because her strongest counters- Widow and McCree- require higher mechanical skill in order to actually counter her. This. Pharah and Symmetra bring out the salt at low tiers more than Junkrat because countering them at low levels requires significantly more skill than using them. (Once you're playing at the level where players have consistently better aim Pharah and Symmetra start to require a lot more obviously, but the skill floor for using them at all is lower.) Hidingo Kojimba fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:50
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Hidingo Kojimba posted:(Once you're playing at the level where players have consistently better aim Pharah and Symmetra start to require a lot more obviously, but the skill floor for using them at all is Higher skillfloor = easier to use Lower Skill floor= harder to use Pedantic, I know. But it's something that bugs me.
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May 18, 2017 00:15
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After 18 hours of Ana I finally got my Enabler achievement. Thanks to one of my close friends no less https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixINCjH4vI4 NSFW language I guess
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May 18, 2017 00:40
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Linx posted:After 18 hours of Ana I finally got my Enabler achievement. Thanks to one of my close friends no less That's a charmingly modest standard of "NSFW language." That was a pretty nice play, though. Now that Ana's been out for a while, I don't see people boost Reinhardts anymore. Especially not without the old speed buff it gave.
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May 18, 2017 00:49
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I didn't really want the Discord in there but shadowplay keeps grabbing everything no matter what I do  Rein is still a pretty good target for it as long as you don't expect to get a lot of kills. 9/10 times the glowing axe wielding man is enough to disorient the enemy long enough for you to capitalise on it.
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May 18, 2017 00:58
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I can't avoid Shadowplay recording my voice at 10x the volume of everyone else's no matter what I do to the mic volume settings, and it refuses to record audio onto separate tracks so I can correct it in post, so I gave up on recording my voice at all. Bad program, but I like hitting the "record the last x minutes" button.
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May 18, 2017 01:03
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It's not a Shadowplay thing, audio output capture is just plain hosed on Windows. Splitting audio into different tracks by program is only possible through workarounds, and even those have some hard limitations. I can't find the guide I used originally, but the best setup I was able to figure out uses Voicemeeter to split my audio into two groups: "everything", and "everything minus voice chat" (and the catch is that "voice chat" can only include programs that have a "select audio output device" option in their settings, which Discord mercifully does).
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May 18, 2017 07:28
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Theta Zero posted:That's a charmingly modest standard of "NSFW language." Yeah I don't see it much either. Always goes to soldier or Genji. Rein will do in a pinch though, if you have a lucio he can speedboost rein into people and just need to clear space around the payload, he's really good for that.
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May 18, 2017 09:12
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I boost him sometimes purely for stalling/survival purposes, if we have no visor/sword up.
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May 18, 2017 10:36
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I see it quite a lot and it can work pretty well. It means a Rein with his shield down can contribute to a fight far more than he would otherwise, and you can easily get most of an Earth Shatter out of it.
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May 18, 2017 11:04
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berenzen posted:Higher skillfloor = easier to use Wrong. A higher skill floor means you need HIGHER skill to use the character. You need high skill to get on that floor. A low skill floor means it's easy to get to the point where you can do something.
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May 18, 2017 11:08
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When did skill ceiling fall out of favour?
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May 18, 2017 11:20
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