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Then the games have different luck stats 
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May 17, 2017 15:03
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Raygereio posted:Nah, they really do. In all three games it just comes down to luck whether you get PvP/co-op partner with a good connection or a lovely one. That has not been my experience either. DS1 feels just like playing old school Quake with a 400 ping - you have to press a button almost a half second before you see the action take place. I didn't play enough DS2 PvP to comment, and 3 feels at least like Quakeworld - sometimes you see weird poo poo happening, but for the most part, if I see a hit connect, that's what actually happened.
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May 17, 2017 15:04
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I have no issue with invasions as a mechanic. They're ridiculously infrequent in both DS2 and DS3 and your chances of getting some insane tryhard is surprisingly small. Almost all of the invaders I've fought over the multiple hundreds of hours I've invested in these games have been at or slightly above my own skill level, and even if I didn't beat them, I still made them fight for every inch. My problem is with the implementation of invasions: Fromsoft has repeatedly refused to invest the necessary resources into it, meaning that a potentially enjoyable element frequently leaves a bad taste in my mouth, either because my opponent is stuttering around (if not outright teleporting), my attacks are connecting visually but not being confirmed by the server, or because I legitimately whack someone several times and see that their HP hasn't dropped an inch.
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May 17, 2017 15:07
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:No they really don't. Games for Windows live is a piece of poo poo, and Ds2's net code is extremely temperamental at best. It is the reason why 3 is the first game I actually got into the pvp You're wrong, sorry to say. GFWL had basically nothing to do with it the moment you actually connected with someone. It only mattered for the initial connection. HaB posted:That has not been my experience either. DS1 feels just like playing old school Quake with a 400 ping - you have to press a button almost a half second before you see the action take place. I didn't play enough DS2 PvP to comment, and 3 feels at least like Quakeworld - sometimes you see weird poo poo happening, but for the most part, if I see a hit connect, that's what actually happened. The same to you. You are letting perceptual biases and memory cloud your judgment. Especially when you remember that DS1 and DS3 work basically the same to the point where some of the same old hacks I used back in DS1 work with an address update. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:10
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HaB posted:I mean...here's a snippet from YOUR latest post: You're missing literally all context and I have no idea if you're even being serious right now  That post you quoted was in reply to Kraken, mid-conversation and after the parts I quoted. I had already made it clear who I was talking about so I didn't feel the need to clarify it in every post. You're also completely missing what the conversation was even about, because I'm not whining about invaders "ruining my fun" or anything of that sort, I'm saying that it's literally unplayable for some of us and I even posted a video showing it off. Your advice makes no sense at all in the context of the conversation. I know you're not trying to be an rear end or anything but come on e: to make everything ridiculously clear, since this seems to be a communication mishap; the "people" I'm talking about in that quote are people (like me) who have lag problems due to geographical location or otherwise. The thing I'm talking about us "being subjected to" is awful laggy invasions. I don't like invasions in general but that's not what I'm arguing about here at all. I understand that a lot of people consider invasions to be an integral core part of the game and experience. What I'm saying is that some of us never get that "experience" you're talking about because invasions are completely busted for us and I wish there was a way to opt out of it because from a game design standpoint (remember, games are supposed to be fun) it's bizarre to subject players to this kind of RNG lagfest. I'm  in' out here sorry, it's just frustrating when you're trying to say something and people aren't understanding it
Your Computer fucked around with this message at 15:33 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:13
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Maybe ds2 is played exclusively by fuckos with poo poo internet then.
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May 17, 2017 15:20
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Let me be completely, crystal clear about this. Steam? GFWL? None of that matters. The one and only thing they are responsible for that is relevant to this discussion is hooking you up with another person. After that, it is all peer-to-peer. There was a thing when DS3 was coming out where From devs said that DS2 never used peer-to-peer. Needless to say, they were wrong. It was hilarious. Any differences you guys are seeing between the games is down to: 1) Perceptual bias and 2) Whoever you connected with Especially when you're trying to find a difference between DS1 and 3. And frankly I'm inclined to think 1 is playing the bigger role here. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 15:31 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:23
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Can confirm that i've had incredibly wonky coop or pvp (playing from central europe) at certain times of the day which correlated with their matching systems throwing me in with or against asian or russian players in pretty much all games. Going through 2 and 3 coop with a friend stuck with a rather unstable connection has been equally (un-)reliable. Though i can't remember having as many serious boss desyncs in 1 and 2 as i've seen in 3. Ironically this could even be a side effect of improved connection maintenance - lost packets/information may cause a boss to freeze or a fogwall to stay "locked" on my end but don't just immediately kick me out.
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May 17, 2017 15:29
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I'm not talking about 1. I didn't PvP in that
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May 17, 2017 15:31
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That wasn't directly to you, that was a general statement.
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May 17, 2017 15:32
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Yeah I know it was to everyone. Maybe everyone's internet really was just that much worse when ds1&2 were new
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May 17, 2017 16:39
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Yeah I know it was to everyone. Once while invading as a bellbro the host walked out of the Belfry and never came back. His phantom was very confused.
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May 17, 2017 16:41
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I'm loving stuck at trying to beat this frost guy in the basement of the Undead Settlement. Its in a room full of pillars, he just relentlessly attacks and I have no answer for it.
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May 17, 2017 17:07
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:I'm loving stuck at trying to beat this frost guy in the basement of the Undead Settlement. Its in a room full of pillars, he just relentlessly attacks and I have no answer for it. Hug the butt and roll into his side when he swipes.
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May 17, 2017 17:09
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Outrider Knight is a brick wall and forces you to learn the tight roll timings the game will demand of you. Also teaches you that enemies will rarely give you an opening after just one hit. He usually only does two swings then poke his butt once or twice.
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May 17, 2017 17:12
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Also if you don't care to fight fair, just run past him and open up the door (invincible while opening), light the bonfire and the cheese him at your leisure from the other side of the door!
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May 17, 2017 17:20
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My preferred method is to send the elevator back up, lure him out, and watch him Looney Tunes himself down a hole.
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May 17, 2017 17:28
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Brain In A Jar posted:My preferred method is to send the elevator back up, lure him out, and watch him Looney Tunes himself down a hole. Hells yeah.
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May 17, 2017 17:33
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Don't lock on to the outrider knight, just run around him and point-pivot to attack.
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May 17, 2017 17:54
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Paracelsus posted:Don't lock on to the outrider knight, just run around him and point-pivot to attack. What is a point pivot?
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May 17, 2017 20:34
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lag became a huge non-issue for me when I got not poo poo internet like it still happens but really really rarely and I even get on wifi like a shithead sometimes pvp is not perfect in this series but by the tone of some y'alls posts, holy poo poo you guys have horrible internet connections not much from can do about that
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May 17, 2017 20:41
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:What is a point pivot? Some of the more difficult boss fights are all about abusing angles and geometry.
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May 17, 2017 20:45
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KingSlime posted:lag became a huge non-issue for me when I got not poo poo internet I think it has to do with geographical location, really. I assume most of the posters here are from the US (like the rest of the forums) which means they'll probably have decent connections against other US players (aka. a huge part of the playerbase). Live halfway across the world and the P2P nature of the PvP connections can become a problem. Even worse if you live in/play at a time where you'll almost always get paired with people from very far away. A good internet connection only goes so far when you're P2Ping with someone on the other side of the world whose connection also matters 
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May 17, 2017 20:59
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It's hard to really enjoy dark souls pvp without understanding how the latency works out, but i think this video is a good visual explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTMwkk8r6D0 If you're in range of an opponent and then back off to a safe distance, you still need to roll if they attack. Conversely, with really bad latency you can just walk through an opponent's attack, since on their screen they finished swinging a second ago. With a reasonable connection it's really not an issue, you just need to be aware if you're backing off. It's kinda meta, but at least it's consistent
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May 17, 2017 20:59
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Your Computer posted:I'm sorry I keep posting this video, but look at this: Actually something very specific is happening here. Dark Souls streamer Peeve calls it the Miyazaki Shuffle. Whenever someone is connecting or disconnecting from the host, the animations for the host will stop and all damage taken and given will be delayed until the connection stabilizes. This clip just happens to be a perfect stream of connections and disconnections as the host constantly summons new people in. Note that you'll never see this if you're just trying to play single player or coop. Only invaders have to deal with it. 7c Nickel fucked around with this message at 21:31 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 21:29
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I'll never get why people call it a shuffle and not a slide. Shuffle implies movement but they are just idle-posing across the map. Hey Tallgeese, do you know why that happens? Cause I'm pretty sure it didn't happen in either DS1 or DS2.
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May 17, 2017 21:32
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7c Nickel posted:Actually something very specific is happening here. Dark Souls streamer Peeve calls it the Miyazaki Shuffle. Whenever someone is connecting or disconnecting from the host, the animations for the host will stop and all damage taken and given will be delayed until the connection stabilizes. This clip just happens to be a perfect stream of connections and disconnections as the host constantly summons new people in. Note that you'll never see this is you're just trying to play single player. Only invaders have to deal with it. That's really interesting, but also not true in all cases. I've experienced plenty of t-posing invaders and I never summon anyone (why would I want to drag that kind of PvP out more) and I've seen plenty of other people experience the same thing. I've watched a million Let's Plays and I can't for the life of me remember which one it was, but one guy was getting constantly invaded by Aldrich Faithful who t-posed all over him and he never summoned anyone either (would've been a great counter-example. You'll uh.. just have to take my word?  )I guess there are multiple reasons for this so-called shuffle 
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May 17, 2017 21:39
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Your Computer posted:That's really interesting, but also not true in all cases. I've experienced plenty of t-posing invaders and I never summon anyone (why would I want to drag that kind of PvP out more) and I've seen plenty of other people experience the same thing. I've watched a million Let's Plays and I can't for the life of me remember which one it was, but one guy was getting constantly invaded by Aldrich Faithful who t-posed all over him and he never summoned anyone either (would've been a great counter-example. You'll uh.. just have to take my word? Ohh sure, there are other cases that can do the same thing, it's just that this particular bug is very common and is what's on display in this clip.
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May 17, 2017 21:42
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7c Nickel posted:Ohh sure, there are other cases that can do the same thing, it's just that this particular bug is very common and is what's on display in this clip. Ah, gotcha. In that case that's actually very educational and makes the clip even better As if the summoning thing wasn't already ridiculous.e: makes the video worse to get my point of "lag sucks" across though, but hey. Still a really funny clip!
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May 17, 2017 21:44
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When I'm sunbroing and trying to help people with bosses about 1 in 5 of them are t-posed and I can't move through the fog gate.
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May 17, 2017 22:05
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Steve Jorbs posted:It's where you rush behind an enemy without lock-on active then turn hard just as you pass them to attack/backstab them. With lock-on your movement is always centered on the target so they can rotate with you and you'll always be in their field of attack. Without lock-on you can pass by their peripheral on a sort of tangent. I saw a video of someone killing Nameless without rolling or blocking, just by running around his attacks like that. It was cool. Another thing I like is that you can change direction until very late in the attack animation-- until maybe the first active frame, i think. Way back in DeS Satsuki would exploit this by doing a (very slow in that game) katana R2, in the wrong direction, and then pivoting to gore you when you go for the backstab. I started doing the same thing to DS1 forest invaders and it worked shockingly well for a week or so until they all got better than me
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May 17, 2017 22:14
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I'm not sure if you can still do it, but you could do that to get around shields, too. Shields would only block some attacks if the attacker was facing them directly, so you could walk right against someone's Havel's shield, turn 90 degrees right or left, then use a Zweihander or cast Wrath of God and hit them through their shield. It was called dead-angling IIRC.
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May 17, 2017 22:33
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Dead angling does exist in ds3. edit: for parries at least, not sure about ignoring shields entirely. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 23:03 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:48
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Isn't that just taking advantage of hitboxes? On the same topic, I can't believe it took me as long as it did to stop using lock-on and experience the greatness that is player weapon hitboxes. I know I've mentioned this a lot, but weapons like the Curved Greatswords are just so much fun to use without lock-on when you learn how they swing. You can really use it creatively! Of course, my experience is strictly PvE but the same moves would apply to PvP as well I imagine. It feels really good when you know the moveset well enough that you can predict movement and angle an attack just right so that part of the hitbox *just* touches an enemy as you swing around 
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May 17, 2017 22:54
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Why do Harald Knights hit invaders even if there is no seed active? Seems like kind of bullshit to be dealing with 4 phantoms and still have to watch out for stray swings.
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May 18, 2017 05:48
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Harald knights have friendly fire on some of their moves naturally
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May 18, 2017 05:52
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Maleh-Vor posted:Why do Harald Knights hit invaders even if there is no seed active? Seems like kind of bullshit to be dealing with 4 phantoms and still have to watch out for stray swings. Because From is lazy when it comes to coding. See, there are some enemies in DS3 that can friendly fire with certain attacks. Usually its huge enemies like the giants where it makes sense for other enemies to get squashed by their massive blows. There's also some cases where its just thematically appropriate; the grave wardens in the Cathedral have friendly fire on some attacks, which causes them to cut up those mindless hollows while trying to get you. Its a neat little detail From put in, but it fucks over invaders because the game doesn't distinguish between regular enemies and an invader. So even though these enemies will never target you without a seed being active, you can still get clipped by their friendly fire moves. Its pretty stupid and I highly doubt From intended to screw over invaders with this mechanic. They don't care about changing it either though. I've been on the receiving end of an OHKO from a Harald knight after killing all of a host's phantoms 
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May 18, 2017 05:54
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Yeah, I had killed 3 phantoms using the 2 ringed knights before the long staircase creatively, got another bluecop so I fell back to the Harald Knights, got the bluecop down to like 30hp and got clipped by a Harald Knight's backswing and that was enough stun to get killed by the host. I invaded the same team of gankers like 4 times tonight too, and the first time I did ok and got one of the phantoms, I got a connection failed and got tossed back to my world.
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May 18, 2017 06:24
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Actually, I am pretty sure there is a separate targeting type for red phantoms. I would have to go back and check the targeting flags to be absolutely sure... but simple logic should suffice. Keep in mind that if there was not, seeds would cause enemies to kill each other.
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May 18, 2017 06:25
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After finally killing the Outrider Knight the rest of the game feels like easy mode. That rear end in a top hat was harder than any of the bosses I've faced so far
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May 18, 2017 06:31
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