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People go on about Corbyn being a weak opposition and that, but a really interesting development I've seen in this election is that now labour are opening up the left of political discourse the tories and libdems both are announcing policies they never would have otherwise to try and and claim the imaginary centre. Things like caps on energy prices or the libdems promising to bring back the EMA. Another thing I've barely seen come up so far is immigration immigration immigration, though I suppose that's covered by brexit. Like whatever you think of labour's prospects, having a left wing leader who focuses on policy over personality has done a great deal to open up the field and create an actual debate rather than competing shades of austerian concensus.
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May 17, 2017 18:49
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Milliband proposed an energy price cap in 2015. It's been adopted by the Tories in 2017 as an easy way of capturing the centre ground. Immigration isn't an issue because both parties have committed to a hard Brexit.
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May 17, 2017 18:53
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Pissflaps posted:He should stand down if he fails to make progress against the Tories. Gonna vote Corbyn so hard.
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May 17, 2017 19:13
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jabby posted:Gonna vote Corbyn so hard. I think it's certainly possible that the membership could choose to keep him.
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May 17, 2017 19:22
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Pissflaps posted:I think it's certainly possible that the membership could choose to keep him. The main reason being, I agree with TomViolence. The tone of this election is completely different from 2015, and it's because Labour is starting to present it's own narrative. We've heard almost nothing about eliminating the deficit and reducing immigration, because Labour are no longer trying to outdo the Tories in those areas. Instead they're talking about nationalisation and investment and the Tories are having to explain why they aren't pursuing similar policies. Sure a lot of people are still blaming immigration for their problems but at least politicians from all sides aren't agreeing with them any more. Look at some recent happenings: the Tories proposed increasing worker's rights. The Tories proposed more social housing. The Lib Dem manifesto contained large increases in spending and investment. George Osborne wrote an editorial about why even trying to cut immigration is 'economically illiterate'. Now you can take the pessimistic view that this just represents other parties capturing the centre ground, but in order to do that they actually need to move closer to where Labour are now. Your example of the energy price cap is a perfect one: in 2015 it was a Labour policy and the only debate was around whether it went too far. Two years later it's a Tory policy and the question is does it go far enough?
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May 17, 2017 19:38
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Regarde Aduck posted:Prediction: We get Yvette Cooper or someone equally banal and centrist. She does better than Corbyn because the powers that be "can work with her". This boils down to maintaining the status quo minus fox hunting or something. Thread assholes declare victory. That this is precisely the pyrrhic non-victory that was warned about falls on deaf ears. The RED center-right party is back in power and can proceed to do nothing because they're "balancing the books". "We will be tougher on benefits cheats. Anyone caught committing benefit fraud will be boiled in acid." "We will be even tougher, anyone suspected of benefit fraud will be boiled in acid." I give it 6 months until "The crime is life, the sentence is death."
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May 17, 2017 19:48
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Guavanaut posted:I give it 6 months until "The crime is life, the sentence is death." Finally a policy I can support.
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May 17, 2017 19:52
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May 17, 2017 20:04
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The bullets are labour voters.
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May 17, 2017 20:11
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Pissflaps posted:Milliband proposed an energy price cap in 2015. It's been adopted by the Tories in 2017 as an easy way of capturing the centre ground. The only brexit was ever hard brexit because freedom of movement has always been off the table
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May 17, 2017 20:17
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Posted this in the scotpol thread as well but I reckon it's interesting for here as well. Quick recap of today's madness in Aberdeen: - Aberdeen Labour decide to go into coalition with the Tories - Scottish Labour HQ says it will suspend them if they do - The councillors ignore HQ, and are now independents - The leader of the Tories on the council issues a statement saying this is a victory for the union The people of Aberdeen elected 19 SNP councillors, 11 Tories, 9 Labour, 4 Lib Dems, and 2 independents. All of the Labour councillors, and one of the Lib Dems, are now independents so that they can go into coalition with the Tories.
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May 17, 2017 20:26
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Jose posted:The only brexit was ever hard brexit because freedom of movement has always been off the table It can be put back on the table by the UK.
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May 17, 2017 20:29
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Coohoolin posted:Posted this in the scotpol thread as well but I reckon it's interesting for here as well. A Throng of Cunts
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May 17, 2017 20:35
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Coohoolin posted:Posted this in the scotpol thread as well but I reckon it's interesting for here as well. That's what people need to restore trust in Scottish Labour. gently caress me.
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May 17, 2017 20:46
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Pissflaps posted:The bullets are labour voters. there aren't bullets in star wars u idiot
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May 17, 2017 20:49
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jabby posted:That's what people need to restore trust in Scottish Labour. gently caress me. To be fair Kezia did expel them from the party, but this is the result of Scottish labour losing sight of the tories and their repositioning as a party of union for whom the SNP are the be all and end all of evil.
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May 17, 2017 21:00
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Looke posted:there aren't bullets in star wars u idiot You think those are voters you're canvassing?
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May 17, 2017 21:13
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jabby posted:Look at some recent happenings: the Tories proposed increasing worker's rights. The Tories proposed more social housing. The Lib Dem manifesto contained large increases in spending and investment. George Osborne wrote an editorial about why even trying to cut immigration is 'economically illiterate'. One of the early commitments of the government, long before Corbyn got in, was to rebuild any council housing that was sold off (this has not happened). They successfully reframed Minimum Wage as The Living Wage (which is something different but that has been lost to history) when they put it up. The courts and MPs are currently in the business of updating working rights legislation to match 'modern conditions' wrt the gig economy.
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May 17, 2017 21:24
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If Labour had seemed as purposeful and clear as they have done since they released the manifesto for more of the last two years and the press took anything except the least charitable line towards them I think people would recognise that Labour have had influence in opposition. Look at all the good work Corbyn did for the leave vote.
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May 17, 2017 21:33
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To be honest, the difference in Corbyn's performance since he got an actual spin doctor and team is remarkable and makes me wish he had gotten one from the start. His messaging is so much better now.
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May 17, 2017 21:40
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jBrereton posted:All of those things have been, in their own way, Tory policy that they haven't actually been doing for a long time. Obviously I don't trust the Tories to deliver, but at the last election any promises like this were buried behind mountains of stuff about the deficit, benefit skivers, and immigrants. Usually coming from both parties. We even ended up with ridiculous situations like the Tories promising more free childcare and more money for the NHS than Labour, because Labour had completely internalised the idea that they had to chase the Tories on right-wing policy. Skinty McEdger posted:To be honest, the difference in Corbyn's performance since he got an actual spin doctor and team is remarkable and makes me wish he had gotten one from the start. His messaging is so much better now. I am genuinely suspicious that one of Corbyn's team leaked the manifesto, because it's been nothing but beneficial. If so, good for them.
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May 17, 2017 21:41
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Looke posted:there aren't bullets in star wars u idiot http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Slugthrower IDIOT.
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May 17, 2017 21:56
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Skinty McEdger posted:To be honest, the difference in Corbyn's performance since he got an actual spin doctor and team is remarkable and makes me wish he had gotten one from the start. His messaging is so much better now. Really? Every time I hear him - which is a lot at the moment - it's still the same weird, unconvincing dalek delivery.
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May 17, 2017 21:59
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Pissflaps posted:Really? Every time I hear him - which is a lot at the moment - it's still the same weird, unconvincing dalek delivery. Edit: I'm coining a term right here right now. You have to be an iPhone politician to win an election Hoops fucked around with this message at 22:08 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 22:02
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Pissflaps posted:Really? Every time I hear him - which is a lot at the moment - it's still the same weird, unconvincing dalek delivery. To be fair its more that everyone seems to be on message with the media far more than they were in the past. A lot less announcements that the relevant shadow cabinet minister has no idea about for instance.
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May 17, 2017 22:03
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TomViolence posted:People go on about Corbyn being a weak opposition and that, but a really interesting development I've seen in this election is that now labour are opening up the left of political discourse the tories and libdems both are announcing policies they never would have otherwise to try and and claim the imaginary centre. Anthony Trollope posted:Many who before regarded legislation on the subject as chimerical, will now fancy that it is only dangerous, or perhaps not more than difficult. And so in time it will come to be looked on as among the things possible, then among the things probable;–and so at last it will be ranged in the list of those few measures which the country requires as being absolutely needed. That is the way in which public opinion is made.
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May 17, 2017 22:04
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serious gaylord posted:To be fair its more that everyone seems to be on message with the media far more than they were in the past. A lot less announcements that the relevant shadow cabinet minister has no idea about for instance. Aye, it all just feels a lot less "we have no idea what we are doing and are just winging it" which is refreshing. Unfortunately most of the damage on that front was already done, maybe it could have been repaired given time, but with the snap election, not a chance, just too soon.
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May 17, 2017 22:06
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The election has produced a clear and distinctive manifesto at least. He would have been cunting it up with train toilets for five years otherwise. Of course they'll lose but at least it's now an actual battleground.
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May 17, 2017 22:08
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Hoops posted:The election has produced a clear and distinctive manifesto at least. He would have been cunting it up with train toilets for five years otherwise. Of course they'll lose but at least it's now an actual battleground. I don't know about that. The whole operation definitely feels slicker than it has been, though clearly that's a low bar to scramble across. Of course this hypothetical also assumes that the Labour MPs could resist forcing another leadership contest they cannot win until 2020 and that is getting pretty fanciful even by the standards of hypotheticals.
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May 17, 2017 22:17
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Hello - news alert for the first summaries of the Tory manifesto. Levy on firms hiring foreign workers that goes to pay for skills training for UK nationals. drat that will play pretty well. There would have been trade unionists in the 80s who would have been all about that.
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May 17, 2017 22:18
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Then its followed up with restricting free school meals. Lunch snatcher indeed.
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May 17, 2017 22:25
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i just got freakin owned and apologise to Pissflaps More elderly people will have to pay for their own social care in the home and lose universal benefits under a new Conservative policy which, Theresa May will say on Thursday, is difficult but necessary to tackle the crisis in funding. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/may/17/theresa-may-conservative-tory-policy-older-people-pay-for-social-care
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May 17, 2017 22:25
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Pissflaps posted:He should stand down if he fails to make progress against the Tories. There will be a leadership challenge no matter what.
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May 17, 2017 22:29
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MikeCrotch posted:I can see the Guardian thinkpieces now "Centrism Ascendent: The End of Labours Brief Flirtation With Populism & The Failure of the Corbyn Experiment" When was the last time labour won an election on any platform but centrism?
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May 17, 2017 22:33
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Hoops posted:Hello - news alert for the first summaries of the Tory manifesto. Why isn't this in the labour manifesto if they are the party of workers?
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May 17, 2017 22:35
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tithin posted:There will be a leadership challenge no matter what. If he quits then there is no leader to challenge?
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May 17, 2017 22:40
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Looke posted:i just got freakin owned and apologise to Pissflaps slugthrowers are only in the Star Wars EU and therefore haraam you did nothing wrong
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May 17, 2017 22:47
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Metal, anime, student politics, monty python and blackadder, Jeremy Corbyn, computer games, Robot wars, Doctor Who, Star Wars expanded universe
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May 17, 2017 22:50
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Pissflaps posted:If he quits then there is no leader to challenge? I believe that course of events to be extremely unlikely
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May 17, 2017 22:55
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Remember when the leave campaign said that leaving would allow us to treat non-EU migrants more fairly? In a shocking twist all these new anti migrant measures only apply to non-EU migrants.
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May 17, 2017 22:55
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