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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:If there's one seemingly obvious change I wish they'd make but they aren't making for whatever reason, it's the "zones of control don't bleed over across occupied and owned territory" thing which can lead to some incredibly stupid behavior. For the purposes of ZoC, it really shouldn't matter whether a province is occupied or fully owned. maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but a fort does continue projecting its ZOC to all of your owned provinces around it even if those provinces become occupied by someone else. ZOCs just don't go across borders under any circumstances
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May 17, 2017 22:47
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QuarkJets posted:maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but a fort does continue projecting its ZOC to all of your owned provinces around it even if those provinces become occupied by someone else. ZOCs just don't go across borders under any circumstances I'm talking enemy territory you have occupied. One of my screenshots of Morocco a month or so ago showed a region that was at the bare minimum fully occupied and controlled by me, with plenty of maintained forts peppered throughout, that the enemy could march right on through because the actual provincial ownership was patchwork. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:06
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'm talking enemy territory you have occupied. One of my screenshots of Morocco a month or so ago showed a region that were all at the bare minimum occupied and controlled by me, with plenty of maintained forts peppered throughout, that the enemy could march right on through because the actual provincial ownership was patchwork. Do you mean this post? Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:
The provincial ownership doesn't matter at all here, the movement is completely explained by the 2-province rule and forts not projecting a hostile ZOC across borders. The AI moves to provinces that are all within 2 spaces from Kasdir, which became the return province when the AI entered Figuig. The situation would have changed if Tlemcen could broadcast its ZOC across borders into Kasdir, since then Kasdir wouldn't have been able to be a return province. But letting ZOCs cross borders creates its own problems (say the AI builds an army in Kasdir and then you declare war... what's the return province? Kasdir, presumably, so suddenly the army gets +1 movement range and appears to be breaking the rules again) I don't know why the 2-province rule exists but presumably it's the result of some contrived situation that came up at some point
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May 17, 2017 23:22
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So uh, I am not sure where to go from here: After one more war with Russia and the Ottomans I will have enough European land to go from Emperor-in-perpetuity to Revoked Privelgia. The only other achievement that I am gunning for was Poland Can Into Space and I'll be waiting a while to get that (I was never even thinking of going for the HRE but then PUs happened and Bohemia + some vassals did the trick). As you can see, Sweden and Bohemia are my junior PU partners; I just cancelled my alliance with France so I could return land to the Empire. Other than that, I am not sure what to do next/until I have 32 in each tech. Any suggestions? Azuren posted:
AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 23:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:So uh, I am not sure where to go from here: Can you become Emperor of China?
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May 17, 2017 23:25
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QuarkJets posted:Do you mean this post? No, I didn't. I meant this: https://forums.somethingawful.com/newreply.php?action=newreply&postid=471199899 Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Okay, I have another fort question. Can anyone explain why these forts don't have zones of control? Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Here's what happened. The Portuguese, starting in Haha, marched south and then northeast around the Atlas Mountains through territory with no forts, then they went from Figuig, to Meknes, to Gharb, and then back down to their starting position in Haha. Fez, Ceuta, and Tangiers all have fully maintained forts.
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May 17, 2017 23:25
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Arrhythmia posted:Can you become Emperor of China?
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May 17, 2017 23:25
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Force more nations into joining the HRE, if it's not too late. Take their capitol, join it with the HRE, then return their capitol. Sometimes you may need to take whatever their temporary new capitol became in order to get them to switch back (for instance, you take Paris, add to HRE, give back Paris, and then possibly you take Champagne or whatever became the new French capitol in order to get France's capitol to switch back to Parise; now France is a HRE member). Repeat this with Castille, Portugal, all of Italy, Ottomans if you can pull it off, etc. Then when you revoke you get those countries as vassals, if you can get them to support the reform
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May 17, 2017 23:28
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QuarkJets posted:Force more nations into joining the HRE, if it's not too late. Take their capitol, join it with the HRE, then return their capitol. Sometimes you may need to take whatever their temporary new capitol became in order to get them to switch back (for instance, you take Paris, add to HRE, give back Paris, and then possibly you take Champagne or whatever became the new French capitol in order to get France's capitol to switch back to Parise; now France is a HRE member). Repeat this with Castille, Portugal, all of Italy, Ottomans if you can pull it off, etc. Then when you revoke you get those countries as vassals, if you can get them to support the reform
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May 17, 2017 23:29
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:No, I didn't. I meant this: Okay, but that's just another situation where provincial ownership doesn't matter, just the inability of forts to project a hostile ZOC across borders.
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May 17, 2017 23:31
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QuarkJets posted:Okay, but that's just another situation where provincial ownership doesn't matter, just the inability of forts to project a hostile ZOC across borders. Which is exactly my point. What I've been saying is that it should project ZoC across borders, if it's into territory you're occupying.
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May 17, 2017 23:32
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I'm having a real hard time with this loving game. I'm on my fifth playthrough, and every time I've quit because I've basically blown it. It just feels so hard to come back from a terrible war. One bad decision and you're gonna have half your poo poo taken away from you, you're in crushing debt, and you're paying war reparations for the next ten years. I never had such a hard time getting into HOI or CK. 
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May 18, 2017 00:06
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Geisladisk posted:I'm having a real hard time with this loving game. I'm on my fifth playthrough, and every time I've quit because I've basically blown it. It just feels so hard to come back from a terrible war. One bad decision and you're gonna have half your poo poo taken away from you, you're in crushing debt, and you're paying war reparations for the next ten years. Sometimes it's fun to ride out the poo poo storm and try for a comeback. You have almost 400 years. If you get screwed in a war you'll get revanchism which will help you recover more quickly for a while. Which countries have you been playing? I'd give the Ottomans a go if you haven't already. Eat all the small countries around you and then steam roll whoever you choose.
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May 18, 2017 00:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Oh lord I never even considered that. Can I?!? You'd have to convert. Christians can't be the Celestial Empire.
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May 18, 2017 00:23
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QuarkJets posted:Okay, but that's just another situation where provincial ownership doesn't matter, just the inability of forts to project a hostile ZOC across borders. How does who owns the province not matter if the issue is borders?
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May 18, 2017 00:56
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Senor Dog posted:How does who owns the province not matter if the issue is borders? We're talking about ownership in the sense of occupation; Dr. Video Games wants ZOC to extend across borders into provinces that you occupy.
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May 18, 2017 02:43
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Provinces that you occupy, or into provinces you have military access to, even. I think that would cut down on at least some of the weird bullshit you see.
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May 18, 2017 02:59
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 Your willingness to defend your garbage tributaries is greatly appreciated, Ming. 
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May 18, 2017 03:37
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they don't seem to like you very much
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May 18, 2017 04:00
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I am debating making them all Marches and sending them officers.... Apparently when you have enacted Proclaim Erbkaisertum (the one before Revoke the Privilegia) HRE vassals do not count towards your relation limit. This means I have a small vassalswarm that I can use to pull off the shenanigans that QuarkJets outlined. Detheros posted:
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May 18, 2017 04:02
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I just learned about this and I hope it's incorporated into an event chain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague
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May 18, 2017 04:25
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Is the total change of profit shown when selecting ships for trade node protection a monthly or yearly change? Also, if you don't care about diplomatic penalties, is it extra profitable to protect trade and privateer in the same node? Should you privateer in nodes you dominate?
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May 18, 2017 04:44
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Geisladisk posted:I'm having a real hard time with this loving game. I'm on my fifth playthrough, and every time I've quit because I've basically blown it. It just feels so hard to come back from a terrible war. One bad decision and you're gonna have half your poo poo taken away from you, you're in crushing debt, and you're paying war reparations for the next ten years. Just remember that the game is over 400 years long, so losing a single war isn't a huge deal. The most important thing is to know when to cut your losses, and knowing how to use the peace deal to put yourself in a good position for a comeback. As mentioned, you get a revanchism bonus when you lose, and you also lose war exhaustion proportional to the war score of the peace deal.
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May 18, 2017 05:14
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snoremac posted:Is the total change of profit shown when selecting ships for trade node protection a monthly or yearly change? Also, if you don't care about diplomatic penalties, is it extra profitable to protect trade and privateer in the same node? Should you privateer in nodes you dominate? Privateers steal from the total trade value of a node and give you 30% of what they steal, so doing it in a node that you dominate is just throwing money away. The ideal node to privateer is one that you don't have any power in, or that doesn't lead to a node you collect in, and preferably one where your rivals have a lot of trade power.
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May 18, 2017 05:17
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snoremac posted:Is the total change of profit shown when selecting ships for trade node protection a monthly or yearly change? Also, if you don't care about diplomatic penalties, is it extra profitable to protect trade and privateer in the same node? Should you privateer in nodes you dominate? It's a monthly change, but your profit isn't what's being shown; the tooltip shows the additional trade value that you control by sending the fleet there. If the node is your home node, then you get to keep all of that value (+ or - any bonuses or penalties). If it's a node that you have a Merchant collecting in, then you get half of that value. If it's neither of those, then that value is moved downstream according to the normal trade steering rules. It is not extra profitable to protect trade and privateer in the same node, and you should not privateer in nodes that you dominate. Privateering gives that fleet's trade power to a special Pirate nation, which takes some cut off the top (I forget exactly how much but they take like 60% or something) then gives you the rest. The trade power of the privateers is not effected by your own trade power in the node, or vice versa. Privateering in nodes where you're collecting just needlessly sends a big chunk of your trade value to the pirate nation, so it's best reserved for trade nodes where you have no trade power or that are downstream of nodes in which you collect (because those nodes are downstream and thus you don't get any benefit from them normally). It's almost always a bad idea to send privateers to trade nodes that you dominate, although there are some contrived situations where it would make sense. In general just don't do it.
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May 18, 2017 05:24
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Yeah, privateering is not a good way to earn money, it's a way to earn power projection by sending your privateers to a node controlled by a rival.
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May 18, 2017 05:41
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I actually always forget about Privateers. They'd be super handy in my Japan game because I'm funneling everything possible into the Malacca node, but I'm starting to take territory that isn't funneling there. (New world provinces other than California/Mexico/Rio Grande, Beijing, etc.) It might not be the most profitable way to use light ships, but it's better than nothing and hopefully it'll make back their upkeep.
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May 18, 2017 05:48
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Thanks people. I was making quite a few errors and have rearranged things. I was also wondering: why does the trade value from node protection increase in smaller values the more ships you add? For example, 3 ships might net me 2.77, I get 3.33 from 4 ships, 3.55 from 5, and so on. Also, is there a cap on node protection's trade value influence? As in too many light ships in one node could just be dead weight if I'm not paying attention? I wish the game explained this stuff better. I have to fart around with ships until the trade value/amount of ships seems right. snoremac fucked around with this message at 06:50 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 06:47
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snoremac posted:Thanks people. I was making quite a few errors and have rearranged things. The trade value in the node is fixed, adding ships just increases how much trade power you have in the node. The amount of trade value that you control is (total trade value in the node) * (your fraction of the total trade power in the node). You can only control up to 100% of the trade value in the node, so the extreme would be getting 0 ducats in trade value control from protecting trade in a node where you already own 100% of the trade power. Each additional ship provides the same amount of trade power as the previous one, but the total trade power doesn't matter, only your fraction of the total trade power does. And since the denominator is growing at the same rate as the numerator, each ship winds up giving you less additional trade power percentage than the one before it.
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May 18, 2017 07:05
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Arcturas posted:I actually always forget about Privateers. They'd be super handy in my Japan game because I'm funneling everything possible into the Malacca node, but I'm starting to take territory that isn't funneling there. (New world provinces other than California/Mexico/Rio Grande, Beijing, etc.) It might not be the most profitable way to use light ships, but it's better than nothing and hopefully it'll make back their upkeep. Because trade ships increase the total trade power in the node as well as your own trade power. Let's say there's 100 total trade power in the node, of which you control 50 of it, or 50%. You send one trade ship to the node, and now you control 52 out of 102 of the trade power, or 51%. If you send 10, you control 70 out of 120 trade power, or 58%. If you send 100, you control 250 out of 300, or 83%. So there's no limit on the amount of trade ships you can send to a node, but there are diminishing returns on their effectiveness. As long as any other country has power in the node, you can approach but never reach 100% control no matter how many ships you send to it. And if nobody else has power in the node, sending ships to it won't have any effect. Basically just start reading and also watch this.
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May 18, 2017 07:06
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QuarkJets posted:The trade value in the node is fixed, adding ships just increases how much trade power you have in the node. The amount of trade value that you control is (total trade value in the node) * (your fraction of the total trade power in the node). You can only control up to 100% of the trade value in the node, so the extreme would be getting 0 ducats in trade value control from protecting trade in a node where you already own 100% of the trade power. Ah okay, I get it now. ^^I assume the above post was for me too.
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May 18, 2017 07:54
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Provinces that you occupy, or into provinces you have military access to, even. I think that would cut down on at least some of the weird bullshit you see. Occupied forts don't seem to count in your favor either, which is weird. It's my fort now, I took it, it should have proper ZoC. I wonder if the 2 province rule simply exists for the AI because it couldn't handle a stricter model were forts block any movement past their ZoC.
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May 18, 2017 10:50
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So I just annexed Lubeck and got an extra 4300 ducats out of the peace deal. The treasury actually contained about 5500 but it exceeded the war score to get the rest. I've been in a few wars against merchant republics but never saw money like that. Why would they have that much? I just stumbled on it by fluke. Is there anywhere in the ledger that reveals total ducats owned rather than income? I wouldn't mind going to war purely to suck up the ducats.
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May 18, 2017 11:55
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Occupied forts do work in your favour, in that they exert hostile zoc against your enemies. They don't exert friendly zone of control to help your units move around though, so you don't see anything on the fort map mode.
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May 18, 2017 12:12
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snoremac posted:So I just annexed Lubeck and got an extra 4300 ducats out of the peace deal. The treasury actually contained about 5500 but it exceeded the war score to get the rest. I've been in a few wars against merchant republics but never saw money like that. Why would they have that much? There's somewhere in the ledger that shows total ducat amount, which you can use to pick your harvest. Papal state often is really rich. But yeah, merchant republics can be nice too. Gold is not super hard to come by and if they are never at war they can stack up fast.
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May 18, 2017 12:57
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Ledger->Country->Country It looks like this 
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May 18, 2017 13:03
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Azuren posted:
What did you start as? I want to do a Persia run but all the starting options seem to be dependant on restarting the game, which sucks for a MP session
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May 18, 2017 14:27
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Well this game is almost over. Getting a PU over Castile+Aragon+Naples before 1480 is quite OP, who would've thought  all in all it's been a riot.I could've gone for much, much more but I wanted to take it easy, and somewhere along the line my save de-ironmanned itself so it wasn't possible to go for achievements I'm huge (Scotland, Ireland and Syria are my creations, I love releasing small powers from the big guys and guaranteeing them ) REAL huge (GP screen is a little old but didn't change much, note that I own literally all of North America and the caribbean)  Scandinavia is in a PU under me, they were my allies but then they didn't want me to finish eating the last German dudes that were their allies (lubeck) so they fought me and lost. gently caress them, I had a force limit of 620 (without Quantity!) and between them, the commonwealth and a couple minors couldn't even break 350 so I just claimed their throne and went to town  Speaking about forts, all those you see here are level 8 fortresses. I'm still making 400+ ducats per month, apparently owning all the trade and all the land makes you free from money issues  
TorakFade fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 21:37
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WTG AI Persia and Malaya  (Some Berber state being huge seems to happen in most of my games I guess because nobody wants to loving bother taking their poo poo provinces, and they still usually have a big tech advantage over the West Africans)
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May 18, 2017 22:42
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and OMAN! You go for that Third Way achievement, AI player and Morocco I guess is pretty big too
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May 18, 2017 23:26
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