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   Curse you you Dutch bastards!   I'd just like to say my carriers suck.  Sink something you sods!  He He He.
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May 17, 2017 04:35
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| # ? May 21, 2024 05:38 |
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Used this to have something to do on smore breaks. Hell of a ride so far. It seems like the designers of the game went balls in on complexity and just kinda phones in the ai. Out of curiosity, how do Grey's air losses compare to the real WW2 Japanese losses at this point?
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May 17, 2017 06:50
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Leon Cross posted:Used this to have something to do on smore breaks. The US virtually annihlated the air naval arm at Midway and then blew it up again at the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot. So far, Grey's doing waaaaaay better than historical.
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May 17, 2017 15:08
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   Hello there! Expect friends come morning!  Hi There! Have gifts!  So, for those of you asking why I've never spents any political points – I just spent them all!  And I need more! Thousands more to free up all 72,000 men I want to ship out! 
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May 17, 2017 18:00
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Aren't garrison units poo poo?
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May 17, 2017 18:14
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Where are they being shipped?
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May 17, 2017 18:18
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I believe the plan is to drop them off at New Caledonia to crack open Noumea?
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May 17, 2017 18:24
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Watch as the rebuilt American carrier group arrives just in time to intercept the convoy.
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May 17, 2017 19:01
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Watch as the rebuilt American carrier group arrives just in time to intercept the convoy. Lead, of course, by the Enterprise, which was never really sunk.
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May 17, 2017 19:11
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So, I've never played this game before and my only exposure to it is this thread - is it actually possible to win the war as Japan? My knowledge of WW2 isn't great but it seems like it'd be impossible to keep pace with the Allies in terms of ships and planes.
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May 17, 2017 20:33
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So how does "Training Command" Work? I'm playing the Gudalcanal Scenario as the allies and I need my pilots XP to go way up. They're all at like 50 right now, its October.
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May 17, 2017 20:35
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You stick them in squadrons away from combat with Training set as their mission. It usually takes a while so I don't know if training is really in the scope of a smaller scenario or if you should just throw them in and get them bloodied. The ones that live will get a bunch of XP.Julio Cruz posted:So, I've never played this game before and my only exposure to it is this thread - is it actually possible to win the war as Japan? My knowledge of WW2 isn't great but it seems like it'd be impossible to keep pace with the Allies in terms of ships and planes. It depends on what you mean by the win the war. The US will never surrender and I'm pretty sure it is essentially impossible to take over the US mainland because landing there spawns a shitload of US Army units. GOOD TIMES ON METH fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 20:48
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:You stick them in squadrons away from combat with Training set as their mission. It usually takes a while so I don't know if training is really in the scope of a smaller scenario or if you should just throw them in and get them bloodied. The ones that live will get a bunch of XP. Oh so putting experienced pilots in training command doesn't automatically train replacements? Like if I put a dozen dudes with 90 XP in training command I'm not pumping out replacement pilots with like 70-80 XP?
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May 17, 2017 20:50
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Phi230 posted:Oh so putting experienced pilots in training command doesn't automatically train replacements? It raises the starting XP of brand new untrained pilots by a small amount iirc. It probably has zero impact in a short term scenario. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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May 17, 2017 20:52
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One thing that might help bust New Caledonia is sending constant battleship sorties to Noumea. Shore bombardments are really good for shutting down airfields, draining supply, and disrupting the defenders. Might as well make use of the weeks it'll take to ship those troops from China...Julio Cruz posted:So, I've never played this game before and my only exposure to it is this thread - is it actually possible to win the war as Japan? My knowledge of WW2 isn't great but it seems like it'd be impossible to keep pace with the Allies in terms of ships and planes. The game usually ends in autovictory for one of the two sides. In 1943, the autovictory is triggered if you have 4x the victory points of your opponent (this is usually when a very aggressive Japan might win if they manage to capture almost all of India and/or Australia), 1944 3x, and 1945 2x. If autovictory isn't triggered by the end of 1945, I think the scenario ends in April 1946. The scale of your victory at that point is determined by how many points you have compared to your opponent. The levels are decisive, major, and minor. If the Allies feel the need to use more than two nukes, their victory level automatically gets bumped down. As for production, more Allied ships just mean more targets  . Japan can also keep remarkably good pace in aircraft production, and if really well planned out, they can even bring advanced airframes online sooner than the Allies.
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May 17, 2017 20:58
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Slippery42 posted:The game usually ends in autovictory for one of the two sides. In 1943, the autovictory is triggered if you have 4x the victory points of your opponent (this is usually when a very aggressive Japan might win if they manage to capture almost all of India and/or Australia), 1944 3x, and 1945 2x. If autovictory isn't triggered by the end of 1945, I think the scenario ends in April 1946. The scale of your victory at that point is determined by how many points you have compared to your opponent. The levels are decisive, major, and minor. If the Allies feel the need to use more than two nukes, their victory level automatically gets bumped down. Ah, I didn't know there was a fixed end date. I was imagining 100 years of attrition and grinding out small territorial gains for Japan to conquer the world.
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May 17, 2017 21:29
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Also worth noting that Japan doesn't actually have to fall as far behind in carriers as it did in real life, since you get (in theory) 8 new fleet carriers (Taiho, Shinano, and the 6 Unryus) in 1944-1945. This, of course, requires that you don't lose too many of your original 6 fleet carriers, that you are able to keep oil supply from the Dutch East Indies open, and that you have enough trained pilots and airframes to be effective. However, the carriers you get (maybe with the exception of the Taiho) are all inferior in size and durability with the Essex class carriers, and you tend to get them far later than is useful. Grey cancelled 3 of the Unryus, so we won't be able to maintain fleet carrier parity in 44/45 even with current and future successes. At present, I believe that we stand at about 5 fleet carriers (Akagi was lost) to 4 or 5 (Hornet (maybe), plus Essex, Lexington II, Yorktown II, Bunker Hill, and a few escort and light carriers. In August the allies should be getting Intrepid, and in November they'll get Wasp II and Hornet II (Though if Hornet hasn't been lost in this timeline, it would really be Kearsarge). IIRC, America also gets to replace every fleet carrier it loses before 1943 with another one that shows up around 450 days later, but I'm not sure which of the Essex class carriers are generated as part of that program and which ones are on the build list from the start. Nonetheless, you can see that when the allies get nearly 20 modern fleet carriers by the end of 1945, you'd be pressed to win even under the best of circumstances and making full use of kamikazes. Under these conditions your only real chance is to either win big with a really stupidly aggressive strategy (capturing all of China, India, and Australia) so that you can trigger the x4 autovictory by the time 1943 rolls around, or just be better at holding out for longer. Things that can help: 1. Not losing a bunch of fleet carriers in a stupid attempt to force a decisive battle using less than your own fighting strength (check) 2. Not getting your surface fleet and merchant marine whittled away trying to resupply an overextended garrison of questionable strategic value (check...so far, at least...) 3. Not letting your pilot corps get decimated because of lack of trained replacements (uhh...maybe check? Grey's been losing a lot of fighters) 4. Not letting your development of new airframes fall behind (Hard to tell, we haven't seen the D4Y or B5N deployed yet, but the advanced zeroes appear to be on track at this rate) 5. Not letting the allies get an airfield in B-29 range of the home islands (to be determined) 6. Not cancelling your replacement carriers and other ship replacements (oops) So Grey's been doing pretty good, but his strategy is by now locked in: he needs to hold off the allies longer than Japan did in real life in order to get a victory. He can try to take New Caledonia and maybe even Fiji with the troops freed from China, but he has only a few months until the allies will be able to start launching counteroffensives in earnest. If the allied AI can coordinate their carriers better than it coordinates its resupply convoys, there could be a decisive battle in the allies favor this year. if they can't, Grey might be able to keep the Kido Butai intact, but it won't be able to keep exerting pressure without taking losses from attrition that won't get replaced until it's far too late.
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May 17, 2017 21:58
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17 May 1943 German minesweeper M.414, torpedoed off Texel by RAF Coastal Command Beaufighter aircraft.
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May 17, 2017 23:44
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Phi230 posted:So how does "Training Command" Work? I'm playing the Gudalcanal Scenario as the allies and I need my pilots XP to go way up. They're all at like 50 right now, its October. Training Command is on a long enough timeline that there's no real point to it outside of the full campaign. In Guadalcanal, you get what you get.
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May 17, 2017 23:50
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So what was the logic behind cancelling those fleet carriers early in the game? What do you get instead of those flattops?
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May 18, 2017 00:31
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Defeatism.
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May 18, 2017 00:33
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sparkmaster posted:So what was the logic behind cancelling those fleet carriers early in the game? What do you get instead of those flattops? Well, to get the last three before 1946 you need to "accelerate" their construction which uses more heavy industry, and thus more resources. I'm not sure when they finish if you do accelerate them all the way, probably late 1944. By that point the allies are flying Hellcats and Corsairs and their flak is absolutely murderous. It's very, very difficult to win carrier battles for Japan late in the war, and usually it ends with Japanese carriers sinking from a couple of hits. (The flak is really key to this - accuracy of strikes and survival of strike craft get hammered by good flak, and the US ships get so good at this by comparison that even an untouched strike might miss all torpedoes from flak alone) It's certainly tempting to try and accelerate all the carriers, get Jills, Judys and Sams on a relevant timescale, but usually it's better to spend the resources and supply expanding and maintaining the perimeter of the empire, then making the allies bleed when they try and move closer.
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May 18, 2017 00:43
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sparkmaster posted:So what was the logic behind cancelling those fleet carriers early in the game? What do you get instead of those flattops? At that point in the game the Allies are attacking your land bases and you need planes more than carriers.
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May 18, 2017 01:26
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Julio Cruz posted:So, I've never played this game before and my only exposure to it is this thread - is it actually possible to win the war as Japan? My knowledge of WW2 isn't great but it seems like it'd be impossible to keep pace with the Allies in terms of ships and planes. You have autovictory conditions for the end of every year starting 1942. To get autovictory for December 31 1942 you have to basically conquer western Australia and most of India, or take Vancouver Island and start strategic bombing the American mainland. You also have to destroy a lot of enemy armies without losing many army yourself. If the enemy retreats all their stuff you can get a lot of VP for free and then some daring and ahead-of-the-game moves after that can grab you enough points. Get bogged down in India or whatever and you're done. I think a 1942 or 1943 victory represents the impossible idea that the US would sue for peace, while 1944 or 1945 or 1946 represent the idea that the cost of finishing the war would be too high, likely some kind of conditional surrender. Neither is really realistic, though.
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May 18, 2017 01:43
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You can also get nuked a whole lot which is a moral victory!
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May 18, 2017 02:19
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If the USA isn't within b-29 range of the home islands, is there still a use for the bombs? Are they Effective if you drop them on a Japanese garrison in China or somewhere else?
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May 18, 2017 02:44
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Ron Jeremy posted:If the USA isn't within b-29 range of the home islands, is there still a use for the bombs? Are they Effective if you drop them on a Japanese garrison in China or somewhere else? Japan has quite a bit of industry in Korea, some in occupied China, and a bit on Formosa. If you were really struggling to find a good industrial target for the B-29s because of lack of forward bases, you could probably hit most of the oil production centers in Java from Northern Australia. Strategic bombing doesn't do much against actual troop formations and is wasted against shipping.
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May 18, 2017 04:16
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Japan has quite a bit of industry in Korea, some in occupied China, and a bit on Formosa. If you were really struggling to find a good industrial target for the B-29s because of lack of forward bases, you could probably hit most of the oil production centers in Java from Northern Australia. Discussion regarding the usage of the bomb in those alternate timelines would probably be, uh, interesting to say the least.
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May 18, 2017 04:28
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Discussion regarding the usage of the bomb in those alternate timelines would probably be, uh, interesting to say the least. I'm sure dropping the A-bombs on enslaved Koreans and Formosans because Home Island air defenses were too heavy would have been taken in stride.
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May 18, 2017 05:24
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I think the ones Grey canceled were CVE's/CVL's which had the speed of merchantmen and about half as many planes as one could have. I think that like 20 or so planes on a ship that cuold make 18 knots with a wind at it's back was determined to be 'not really worth it'.
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May 18, 2017 07:42
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wedgekree posted:I think the ones Grey canceled were CVE's/CVL's which had the speed of merchantmen and about half as many planes as one could have. I think that like 20 or so planes on a ship that cuold make 18 knots with a wind at it's back was determined to be 'not really worth it'. He cancelled the Kasagi, Aso, and Ikoma, which are all Unryu-class, and fairly modern fleet carriers with 63 aircraft that made 32 knots.
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May 18, 2017 08:47
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I still don't think those carriers would be around enough to affect the war - I might be cursing myself in two years time, but for now, I'd rather have the mid war stuff quicker. I have nearly twice the US score at the moment. Once the troops in China are freed up, I can try and take Namou, which will get us there with the total shift - Efate will add a few hundred more points when I go after that - the question then is if I go after Fiji or Australia. I'm still having issues with my plane production that may well loose me the war - no matter how many betties the game says I produce a month, I never seem to see a rise in the number on the field. I can't edit the paths of upgrades and I'm doing my best with the others - I'm still learning the Japanese production in some ways, but I never wanted it to be an ahistorical finely tuned machine. I'm just worried that I can't get enough of the killer torpedo planes out, even though I'm not losing any at the moment!
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May 18, 2017 09:04
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FWIW I think Grey's call was absolutely right on this one. The problem is that no matter what you do you're getting those last 3 carriers in '45, and by that time in just about any situation you've either lost most or all of your starting carriers or you've used them so passively that the Allies have cut off your oil supply and you won't be able to sortie outside the range of the home islands. We're in an extraordinary situation where we've managed to kill nearly all of the American carriers with only one major carrier loss and lower-than-average surface combatant losses so we've been able to delay the allied counterattacks for nearly a year, making this one of the few improbable outcomes where the last three Unryus might actually be able to help. Dice rolls, all of it.
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May 18, 2017 09:36
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I still can't believe that grey isn't able to get more advanced airframes. At least some Tojo's and Nicks. They will probably be restricted to a couple of units but they should be around somewhere. I have seen other players do it with PDU off(?? or what's it called) . Fun to watch though. Keeps me something to read when I am offshore for 6 weeks.
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May 18, 2017 12:59
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There's a prohibition on warcrimes chat so we should lay off talking about how Grey is managing the Japanese military industrial complex.
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May 18, 2017 16:22
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Grey Hunter posted:I'm still having issues with my plane production that may well loose me the war - no matter how many betties the game says I produce a month, I never seem to see a rise in the number on the field. I can't edit the paths of upgrades and I'm doing my best with the others - I'm still learning the Japanese production in some ways, but I never wanted it to be an ahistorical finely tuned machine. I'm just worried that I can't get enough of the killer torpedo planes out, even though I'm not losing any at the moment! Maybe you could get some help with this from someone who knows the game well? There's a few in this thread, I believe, or in the grognards games thread.
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May 18, 2017 16:33
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Are you building the engines, that are necessary? Airframes alone won't cut it. Also, you need to turn off/on an option to select your own R&D.
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May 18, 2017 17:06
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  Once again I notice something before running a turn – this is pure murder, but god help me, if I have these ships, I'm going to use them. Also, these are not the tankers I was promised!  Dammit!  A Liberator for a modern Zero.  Take that you supply delivering git!  I love using the big ships. Follys though they may be.  A nice haul today.  Here is engine production. Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 17:13 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 17:10
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At least per the reports it sounds like you took out a tank company as well--200 sunk vehicles is a nice haul.
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May 18, 2017 17:15
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I do like how 136 are just disabled. Submersibles!
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May 18, 2017 17:18
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