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Wheat Loaf posted:It's like that one episode of DS9 where Eddington tells Sisko that he thinks the Federation, in its own way, is worse than the Borg, because at least the Borg are honest about what they do. It's an interesting chestnut to consider, the "But we don't WANT to live in a utopia!" argument. At least Star Trek has a history of effectively handling and portraying shades of grey, and Deep Space Nine was all about showing the downsides, blind spots, and flaws in the utopian Federation. Star Wars doesn't have anything comparable outside a few isolated books and the almost-entirely-retconned KOTOR 2. I enjoy Star Wars for what it is, but a setting comfortable with anything but black and white morality it is not.
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May 17, 2017 00:31
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One thing I noticed in the Rogue One Visual Dictionary is that it mentions briefly at the start that the Empire, because it absorbed the Separatist territory at the end of the Clone Wars, is larger than the Republic ever was. That seems to pretty much imply that in the new canon at least, the Separatists weren't just seceding from the Republic but bringing in new worlds also, something that I don't think was present in the old EU.
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May 17, 2017 01:35
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Tatooine wasn't part of the Republic but by the time of the Empire it was under imperial occupation despite being a Hutt territory.
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May 17, 2017 01:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think the Separatists are more interesting because you can read a lot into them; they're a cause that might have been worthy at one point but they've been hijacked by a cartel of crooks. This is a reference to a global warming right?
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May 17, 2017 05:58
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Something I've just remembered is that, in one of the deleted scenes from ANH with Biggs visiting Luke on Tatooine, one of the things he mentions as evidence of the Empire tightening its grip is that they've started nationalising all of the large companies in the Core worlds, so surely you'd logically expect some ex-Separatist types to join up with the Rebels as well.
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May 17, 2017 11:11
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In Rogue One, Admiral Raddus was commanding an old Separatist capital ship, and that had to come from somewhere.
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May 17, 2017 12:07
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Wheat Loaf posted:Something I've just remembered is that, in one of the deleted scenes from ANH with Biggs visiting Luke on Tatooine, one of the things he mentions as evidence of the Empire tightening its grip is that they've started nationalising all of the large companies in the Core worlds, so surely you'd logically expect some ex-Separatist types to join up with the Rebels as well. That's always been the explanation for why the Rebels had the super-powerful x-wings and the Empire didn't, that the x-wing's manufacturer fled the Empire's nationalization of the corporations.
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May 17, 2017 13:44
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cptn_dr posted:In Rogue One, Admiral Raddus was commanding an old Separatist capital ship, and that had to come from somewhere. Huh. I assumed that was a Mon Calamari ship.
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May 17, 2017 14:01
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Wheat Loaf posted:Huh. I assumed that was a Mon Calamari ship. It is an MC series ship. The separatists did use Mon Calamari Shipyards designs throughout the Clone Wars. The Recusant Class destroyer is another Mon Cal design.
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May 17, 2017 15:08
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I thought his ship was a building that the mon Calamari jury-rigged into a warship?
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May 17, 2017 15:37
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VaultAggie posted:I thought his ship was a building that the mon Calamari jury-rigged into a warship? It is. I was pointing out that the Mon Cal nevertheless did develop dedicated warships for the CIS during the Clone Wars.
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May 17, 2017 15:41
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Oh, of course it was. My bad. Though you can see how I got confused.
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May 17, 2017 21:20
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VaultAggie posted:I thought his ship was a building that the mon Calamari jury-rigged into a warship? There's the holonet router, there's the recaff maker, there's the turbolaser emplacement, and here's your cubicle. Welcome aboard!
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May 17, 2017 22:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:Something I've just remembered is that, in one of the deleted scenes from ANH with Biggs visiting Luke on Tatooine, one of the things he mentions as evidence of the Empire tightening its grip is that they've started nationalising all of the large companies in the Core worlds, so surely you'd logically expect some ex-Separatist types to join up with the Rebels as well. George Lucas would be libertarian.
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May 18, 2017 17:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:George Lucas would be libertarian. On the other hand the villains in the prequels ride around in a capital ship named The Invisible Hand and blockade planets and commit genocide over not wanting to pay taxes
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May 18, 2017 21:15
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:On the other hand the villains in the prequels ride around in a capital ship named The Invisible Hand and blockade planets and commit genocide over not wanting to pay taxes The Invisible Hand only appears in the opening of RotS and is destroyed. While it did participate in the blockade of Coruscant, that one had nothing to do with taxes.
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May 18, 2017 21:21
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Han Solo and Lando are also libertarian-types who stop being selfish and help the other good guys at climactic turning points in the OT. George Lucas is an old white liberal who's about as left-leaning as a billionaire can be, which is 'sort of'.
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May 19, 2017 00:20
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Do remember that the novels where Lando is a purestrain libertarian rear end in a top hat were written by a purestrain libertarian rear end in a top hat, and the material isn't often referenced afterwards.
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May 19, 2017 01:45
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If I recall. The reason for the blockade was "because Darth Sidius said so" and in the books everyone around Nute Gunray and Gunray himself constantly questions the sense of it.
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May 19, 2017 05:18
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It's actually funny that Sidious is telling Gunray to blockade Naboo with the stated goal to put pressure on Senator Palpatine. Dude is setting up the yugest sob story for himself.
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May 19, 2017 06:44
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ecureuilmatrix posted:It's actually funny that Sidious is telling Gunray to blockade Naboo with the stated goal to put pressure on Senator Palpatine. No politician in galactic history has been more unfairly treated than Senator Palpatine.
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May 19, 2017 07:17
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This has been the worst Trade Federation in the history of federations, maybe ever.
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May 19, 2017 09:05
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The Phantom Menace was eighteen years ago!
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May 19, 2017 10:18
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I still remember going to see it opening night. And being confused that the opening scene wasn't a podrace on Tatooine, like it was in the novelization.
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May 19, 2017 10:59
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Hannibal Rex posted:The Phantom Menace was eighteen years ago! "And it still hurts." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJlgpozN31s
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May 19, 2017 11:33
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ImpAtom posted:No politician in galactic history has been more unfairly treated than Senator Palpatine. You know he's gonna keep the spice mines of Kessel open and load 'em up with some bad dudes.
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May 19, 2017 13:38
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cptn_dr posted:I still remember going to see it opening night. And being confused that the opening scene wasn't a podrace on Tatooine, like it was in the novelization. It's funny to think back to 1999 when pretty much everyone I knew had already read the TPM novelization because it came out like a month before the movie and was heavily promoted. It even had like three or four different covers, to hit that collectible market!* And now for TFA and Rogue One they don't even release the novelization until a month after a movie. TPM probably has to be the best-selling movie novelization. *I had the Maul/Sidious one, which is obviously the best one.
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May 19, 2017 15:44
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Chairman Capone posted:And now for TFA and Rogue One they don't even release the novelization until a month after a movie. I actually think that's a sensible move regarding how spoiler-sensitive people have become and how protective studios have become regarding plot spoilers. I never quite understood why movie comics and novelizations used to be released weeks or months before the movie. Didn't that kill the suspense, or did it hype people's expectations for the movie? Then again, spoilers just travelled a lot slower before the internet, and with a much smaller reach (schoolyard, circle of friends, fanzines...). Come to think of it, I just checked and the novelization for The Empire Strikes Back came out about three weeks before the movie was released. I'd love to hear from anyone old enough whether having read the novel impacted their enjoyment of the "I am your father" moment when it happened in the movie.
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May 19, 2017 16:05
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Chairman Capone posted:It's funny to think back to 1999 when pretty much everyone I knew had already read the TPM novelization because it came out like a month before the movie and was heavily promoted. It even had like three or four different covers, to hit that collectible market!* And now for TFA and Rogue One they don't even release the novelization until a month after a movie.
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May 19, 2017 16:24
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:On the other hand the villains in the prequels ride around in a capital ship named The Invisible Hand and blockade planets and commit genocide over not wanting to pay taxes The Separatists are the "Confederacy of Independent Systems" and the Republic is defended by the Grand Army of the Republic and given that an evil dictator is in charge of the Republic I'm not sure I like what's being said here
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May 19, 2017 16:35
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StashAugustine posted:The Separatists are the "Confederacy of Independent Systems" and the Republic is defended by the Grand Army of the Republic and given that an evil dictator is in charge of the Republic I'm not sure I like what's being said here The evil dictator is also in charge of the Confederacy and it's the Republic who uses an army of slaves, so maybe don't read too deeply in that part of this rabbit hole
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May 19, 2017 16:46
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Chairman Capone posted:It's funny to think back to 1999 when pretty much everyone I knew had already read the TPM novelization because it came out like a month before the movie and was heavily promoted. It even had like three or four different covers, to hit that collectible market!* And now for TFA and Rogue One they don't even release the novelization until a month after a movie. I had the junior readers one from Scholastic that had the photographs in the middle. Years later, I found my dad's old copy of the junior novelisation of ROTJ in my grandmother's house, which was confusing because my dad would have been about 20 when that movie came out.
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May 19, 2017 16:57
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Random thought: I was watching the episode of Star Wars: Rebels where Ahsoka was fighting Vader. The whole "Then you will die." part where you can see his yellow eye. So I was watching that fight and thinking to myself...drat it would be awesome to get another standalone movie that took place during the original trilogy so I could see more of Vader fighting on the big screen.
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May 19, 2017 17:00
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:it's the Republic who uses an army of slaves So do the Separatists 
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May 19, 2017 17:05
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pubic works project posted:Random thought: I was watching the episode of Star Wars: Rebels where Ahsoka was fighting Vader. The whole "Then you will die." part where you can see his yellow eye. So I was watching that fight and thinking to myself...drat it would be awesome to get another standalone movie that took place during the original trilogy so I could see more of Vader fighting on the big screen. But that runs into the problem of prequels: plot armor. Making Vader a side character in Rogue One allowed them to use him only very sparingly. It also allowed them to use him in ways that maximized his effect without making him critical to the plot. Same goes for Rebels. He's a major antagonist (although one who only shows up in the season premier and finale) but the focus isn't on him, per se, but his past relationship with Ashoka and what the trials of facing him put Ezra and Kanan through. If you get a standalone Vader movie, you immediately run into issues of how do you create tension when you know Vader has to survive. Plus all the issues of over-exposure and power creep. I'm not saying it can't be done but it's a difficult thing to pull off well.
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May 19, 2017 17:31
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There also the "man, James Earl Jones is sounding rough" factor in play as well. Granted, it's not like they couldn't recast, and it wouldn't be the first time either, but just relegate the character to the comics/games and let the newer antagonists take center stage.
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May 19, 2017 17:53
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So I was watching the Pod Race scene on youtube, and I noticed a lot of scenes in it that aren't on my old VHS copy. I remember back when the 3D Re-Release came out seeing some new scenes put into the film, but are any of these available on the Blu-Ray copy? I remember seeing Rats Tyrell's family watching him die horribly, and Anakin losing his right pod cable. So what version of Phantom Menace has the most complete Podrace sequence is what I'm asking.
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May 19, 2017 18:10
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Pretty sure either the DVD release or the Blu-Ray stitched back in a bunch of deleted pod race scenes. Honestly, I think they just make an already long sequence even longer and somehow more boring. Pretty sure it was the DVD release. Wasn't that also when they replaced the Yoda puppet in TPM with a CG Yoda? Or was that also the Blu-Ray?
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May 19, 2017 18:16
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I have the DVD from when it originally came out however many years ago and Yoda's a puppet in that, so it must have been the Blu-Ray and subsequent releases.
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May 19, 2017 18:29
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Arcsquad12 posted:So I was watching the Pod Race scene on youtube, and I noticed a lot of scenes in it that aren't on my old VHS copy. I remember back when the 3D Re-Release came out seeing some new scenes put into the film, but are any of these available on the Blu-Ray copy? I remember seeing Rats Tyrell's family watching him die horribly, and Anakin losing his right pod cable. So what version of Phantom Menace has the most complete Podrace sequence is what I'm asking. Yeah I noticed that too when my wife and I watched it on Star Wars Day (she demanded we start from the beginning of the saga and then fell asleep halfway through). I can't remember when I bought my DVD copy though.
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May 19, 2017 19:16
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